Talk:Tyrone Wheatley

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Featured article star Tyrone Wheatley is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do.
An entry from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know? column on November 17, 2007.
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[edit] Auto Peer Review

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 16:10, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot (talk) 19:28, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA review: On Hold

I have reviewed this article according to the requirements of the GA criteria and have placed this article on hold at the time until the following issues are addressed. As you address each issue, either strike through the statement/place a check mark next to the issue and state how you addressed it.

  1. "He totalled 40 rushing touchdowns and nearly 5000 rushing yards during his NFL career." A comma was used for "1,046" yards in the next sentence and also for "4,962" in the infobox. Go through the article and make it uniform in addressing all of the occurrences of yards such as "5000" or "5,000".YesY added commas.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 13:59, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
  2. "in both single-season and career statistics for total yards, points, touchdowns, yards/carry, yards/game and several other statistics." Change yards/carry and yards/game to "yards per carry" and "yards per game". Fix any other occurrences in the article.YesY converted to per.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 14:07, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
  3. "He also amassed impressive statistics in track and field with his name still among the greatest track and field athletes in Michigan history in several events including a current all class state record in one event and a current class B record in another." A statement like this is going to need an inline citation for "greatest" and "impressive"; otherwise might be seen as POV.YesY rephrased --TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 14:26, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
  4. "Some describe him as the greatest football player in Michigan High School history." If you're going to same "some", include more than one source.YesYRephrased--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 00:45, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
  5. "Wheatley was a high school All-American in track.[10] Wheatley also played high school basketball.[10]" Merge these two sentences into one.YesY merged.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 14:28, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
  6. "His sophomore year was his breakthrough year." This needs an inline citation.YesY Rephrased with citation for first of three consecutive All-Big Ten selections.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 17:14, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
  7. "In college, Wheatley also ran track. He was the 1994 Big Ten 110 metre hurdles champion and was selected first team All-Big Ten.[28]" Single and two-sentence paragraphs either need to be expanded or incorporated into another paragraph. I'm sure there is some more information about this that can be added.
    I am going to be unable to find anything additional. However, I have put in a query to User:Cbl62 who comes up with great stuff for our University of Michigan athletes.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 01:02, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
  8. For the high school, college, and NYG sections, it goes right into how he was performing in football. Include transitions saying how he got to the college, drafted to the team, etc. It seems choppy to go from statistic to statistic without knowing how he suddenly joined the college/team.YesY Revised for flow.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 17:45, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
  9. "Wheatley, returned kickoffs for the 1995 and 1996 Giants with 10 returns for 18.6 yards/return in 1995 and 23 21.9 yards/return in 1996.[32]" Remove the comma.YesY--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 14:20, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
  10. "Tiki Barber got a lot of passing attention." This seems to be randomly included in the paragraph. Unless it is related to Wheatley, it should probably be removed.YesY rephrased for relevance.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 17:26, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
  11. "According to Michael Strahan, Wheatley ". . .could outrun the wide receivers, outlift the linemen and outdebate anyone."" The inline citation needs to go directly after this quote.YesY--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 17:16, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
  12. In the Raider section, there is a lot of information about rushing/passing yards for the other players on his team. This should be edited to reflect more of his focus, and that information should be included on a season article for the Raiders. Otherwise, it may seem like the Raiders' seasons are being summarized. Statements like "Again, Rice and Brown were primary targets for Gannon, who had his best season with 4689 yards." and "Garner led the team in rushing and accumulated 72 pass receptions." are probably not needed.YesY I have attempted to revise for relevance.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 12:34, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
  13. Some of the information in the "Family" section should be used to create an early life section before the "high school" section. Include his father/mother information and any other events before high school. Then rename the Family section to personal life.YesY I believe I have split the information as you wanted.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 01:14, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Altogether, these shouldn't take too long to fix, and I have left the article on hold for seven days for the issues to be addressed. If they are fixed in this time, I will pass the article. If not, the article will be failed and can be renominated at WP:GAN. If you have any questions or when you are done addressing the issues, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. Happy editing! --Nehrams2020 (talk) 08:44, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Do you have any advice on the order of highlights in the infobox?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 18:15, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
I would probably recommend putting headings for the events he received them for first ("football" "track", etc.) then list it either by the order he received them or perhaps the most significant first. --Nehrams2020 (talk) 23:09, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
I have tried to do it by significance because he essentially received several at the same time (the end of the season).--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 12:10, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA passed

Good job with addressing the above issues. I have passed this article according to the requirements of the GA criteria. For the "early life" section, mention where he was born and include information about his mother if it is available. Also, for the infobox, consider putting the year(s) for the awards he received. Continue to improve the article, making sure that all new information is properly sourced. Also, to anyone that is reading this review, please consider reviewing an article or two at WP:GAN to help with the large backlog. Instructions can be found here. Each new reviewer that helps to review articles will help to reduce the time that articles wait to be reviewed. Keep up the good work, and I hope that you continue to bring articles up to Good Article status. If anyone disagrees with this review, an alternate opinion can be sought at Good article reassessment. If you have any further questions about this review, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. I have updated the article history to reflect this review. Happy editing! --Nehrams2020 (talk) 06:24, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the extra pointers. I have addressed them as well as I could. Thanks again for taking the time to review the article as well.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 14:39, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] High School Dunking discussion

During the FAC review process, Tyrone Wheatley's claim to have dunked from the foul line against his high school rival became an issue in regards to its propriety in an encyclopedic article about him. Then, when the reference to this issue was toned down it became an issue again. I.e., one sequence of comments went as follows:

"Wheatley claims to have dunked from just inside the foul line against his high school rival Inkster High School.[6]" So? I claim to have been to Mexico. Does it matter in a biography on the person?

  • The fact that a person who was state athlete of the year in two sports relishes telling stories about dunking on his high school rival in a third tells you something about the guy.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 03:40, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
    • What does it tell us? He's a guy that likes to relive the glory days? This makes him an "everyman"? MECU≈talk 13:49, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Then after toning down the topic another set of comments was as follows:

Can you provide context for his ability to slam dunk? How rare is that for high school athletes?

  • Wheatley is a state record holder in the long jump. He has extraordinary leaping ability. I have been fighting with a statement that I had originally included of a boast about dunking on his high school rival. The toned down sentence is hard to make sense of in context. Can you look at the history and tell me what you think of earlier versions of this topic.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 19:47, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
    • How about moving that sentence up and adding a little more context? If you can work it in close to one of the Long jump sentences, then the sentence could read something along the lines of "His jumping abilities were futher exhibited in basketball; Wheatley played for his high school basketball team and was able to slam dunk." (this sentence is not great either) Karanacs (talk) 16:43, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

I actually think this is an important point to be included in the article and feel it may be properly discussed as an isolated issue instead scattered throughout a WP:FAC discussion.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 16:51, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Minor wording issues

Since I was invited to comment on the article, I've found a few minor things so far that may need fixing. Perhaps they are correct, but if not, I've listed them below for editing consideration:

"Ironically, Wheatley earned his 1999 roster spot in a battle with Rashaan Salaam."

Why is this ironic?
Explained.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 20:24, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

"...did not use Wheatley as a receiver as much as players."

Should this be other players? Wheatley was a player then too, wasn't he?YesY--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 20:33, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

"...unsuccessfully attempting rehab his hamstring"

"to rehab" or "rehab on"?
I formalized the statement.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 20:30, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

"In November 2006, Wheatley was hired as both the head football and the head track coach...Wheatley was initially only hired as the track coach, but after taking Robichaud to their first conference title he was hired...as football coach too."

If he wasn't initially hired as the head football coach, then the first sentence about being hired in November 2006 as both coaches in a singular event is incorrect. Instead, he was hired as one and then the other later on.
Good catch.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 20:40, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

I'll try to look at this more later today when I have more time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Michael Devore (talk • contribs) 19:51, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Good work on the fixes. I just saw that the article missed FA status, I'm sorry it was not able to go all the way on this round. I do believe that some of the article's later sections do not read or flow as well as earlier ones, and could use more polishing. If you get a copyeditor experienced in FA promotions for further cleanup, that could help a lot.
I have a specific concern about wording in the 'New York Giants' section. The last paragraph uses a very damning "cancer" term. The reference note ties the "cancer" remark just to the Giants' organization, and not "by most accounts". You might consider making that connection clear. Otherwise Wheatley is cast in a very negative light: in conjunction with the use of "mental issues" twice in the same paragraph, the section reads as if he might have been seriously unstable. -- Michael Devore (talk) 02:23, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Let me know if I have not addressed your concern.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 21:21, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

[unindent] I see you've removed one mental, which does help soften the paragraph. A concern remains for use of the term cancer that its negative context is still overstated in the article. The NY Times reference gives the context for the cancer quote as "Many in the Giants organization thought...Wheatley was seen as a troublemaker, a cancer in the locker room...[But] most of the players liked him..." Here the NY Times source ties the cancer remark to the Giants organization's perception of Wheatley. But in the Tyrone Wheatley article, it states Wheatley was "a "cancer" in the locker room by most accounts". I don't see where the "most accounts" is coming from, the reference for the cancer quote doesn't show it. "Most accounts" is far stronger and more damning than just the opinion of management.

Another concern I have is the overuse of certain words in the article, beyond the point of stylistic differences in writing. For example, the word only generally is an intensifier to content. In the "New York Giants" section, only is used six times and in the "Oakland Raiders" section, it is used twenty times. This weakens the impact of the word, in my opinion. Also, Although is used seven times to start a sentence in those two sections which, since the sections are long, could be acceptable, but something you might consider tweaking if you rework those sections. -- Michael Devore (talk) 21:27, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Flickr image

Who do I ask for permission to use http://www.flickr.com/photos/12743464@N03/2235970668/ at Tyrone Wheatley?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 20:24, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

You have to ask the photographer: their Flickr page is here. You need an account to send them a message but you can leave a comment on the photo too, I believe without an account. You will need to ask them to put under a WP compatible free license -- which means it cannot exclude commercial use or derivative works. Hope that helps.69.137.246.61 (talk) 21:22, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

  • Also from what I have read, Wikipedia-use-only licenses are unacceptable. 69.137.246.61 (talk) 21:24, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WP:RS concerns

At the Tyrone Wheatley FAC, the following refs are being challenged from PFR. I am not able to find replacement refs. Please advise.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 13:12, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

  1. ^ Tyrone Wheatley (big games). Pro-Football-Reference.com. Sports Reference, LLC.. Retrieved on 2008-01-20.
  2. ^ a b Tyrone Wheatley (playoffs). Pro-Football-Reference.com. Sports Reference, LLC. Retrieved on 2008-01-24.
  3. ^ Tyrone Wheatley. Pro-Football-Reference.com. Sports Reference, LLC.. Retrieved on 2008-01-20.
  4. ^ Oakland Raiders Franchise Encyclopedia. Pro-Football-Reference.com. Sports Reference, LLC.. Retrieved on 2008-01-18.