Talk:Two-Face

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Contents

[edit] Looking at the 'Origin/character History' section, and the 'Publication History' sections

I'm reading them, and first off, this must be fixed:

Two-Face is also at odds with his ex-wife Gilda, as he believes their marriage failed because he was unable to give her children. She later married Paul Janus, a reference to the Roman god of doors who had two faces, one facing forward, the other backward, in the events of Two-Face Strikes Twice,whom Two-Face had attempted to frame as a criminal by kidnapping him and replacing him with a stand-in, whom Two-Face "disfigured" with makeup to make it look as if Janus had gone insane just as Two-Face had. Eventually caught by Batman, Two-Face was sent away and Gilda and Janus reunited. Years later, Gilda gives birth to twins, prompting Two-Face to escape once more and take the twins hostage, as he had believed them to be conceived by Janus using an experimental fertility drug (which they aren't). The end of the book reveals a surprise twist; Batman learns from Gilda that Janus is not the father of Gilda's twins - Dent is. Some of his sperm had been frozen after a death threat had been made against him, and she used some of it to get pregnant. Batman is able to use this information to convince Dent to free the twins and turn himself in.

that's got some of the most convoluted run-on sentences I've ever seen. I can't tell if he disfigured Janus or Gilda, and who 2F tried to frame, if the disfigured and the framed are the same... Can someone who better recalls the story arc please fix this?

Second, It seems that the Publication history rapidly descends into character history after the discussion of the daily strip '89-'91. Long discussions of Hush and One Year Later should probably be moved to the Character history, but given the current fous of that section on his Golden Age origins, I'm loathe to be that bold and rearrange everything. Thoughts? ThuranX 21:14, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spoiler Warning

The section for Two-Face's depictions in the upcoming "The Dark Knight" should contain a spoiler warning, shouldn't it?

Nope. If it gave specifics about Dent's actions and persona before and after, Esp. Plot details, then maybe, pre-release, it could be discussed. Dent's presence is a major part of the marketing, per the websites, an it's highly likely that as coverage in the MSM increases, numerous comments about Dent being two-face will surface. ThuranX 05:41, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Obviously we know Two-Face/Dent will be in the movie, that's not what I'm worried about. The article gives away plot-lines, which people generally try to avoid before seeing a movie.
Anybody who doesn't want to know what will happen in the movie shouldn't read the Dark Knight section. Doczilla 18:28, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Two of averything gimmick in Movie?

In Batman Forever -Two Face:

  • Has a two toned suit
  • Has two differnt guns (A revolver and a automatic pistol}
  • Smokes a white cigerette and a black cigar at the same time!
  • His assistant "Sugar" wears white and watchs a TV with "angel" cartoons
  • His assistatn "Spice" wears black and watchs a TV with "Devil" cartoons

By the way what happens to Sugar and Spice-they are last seen running off into the background when Batman casues the TV rector to explode. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.53.145.149 (talk) 18:14, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

SO what's the question or topic here? That's a nice list of trivia, but not needed in the article. ThuranX 18:40, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article Quality rating

Two Face is likely to be receiving lots of attention when The Dark Knight (film) is released. Is anyone interested in working this up to GA level before may? I"m fairly confident that we can turn this into a nice, mostly OOU article about the character's creation, creative teams' views and attitudes toward the character, public reactions, etc., etc. His IU isn't as awful as other pages I'd like to fix up, but I thinkthat it can be streamlined even further. Doczilla appearas to have independently started this part of the process. I think a couple of good collaborative weekends and we could easily get up to GA. Thoughts? Sign-ups for the Dual Dementee's GA strike team? ThuranX (talk) 13:58, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Film section Citations

[edit] 1989

Can anyone source the material in this paragraph about the contract and buyout?

In the 1989 - 1997 Batman film franchise, Billy Dee Williams appeared as a pre-disfigurement Dent in Batman (1989). Williams signed for this role knowing that Dent was to become Two-Face in further installments of the franchise. To ensure that he would be given the role, Williams negotiated a "pay or play" contract guaranteeing that Warner Brothers would have to cast him as Two-Face or buy him out. However, when Two-Face was to become the main villain in the third movie, director Tim Burton had abdicated to Joel Schumacher, who decided to hire Tommy Lee Jones, and agreed to pay Williams for his cooperation allowing them to use the character.

This was tagged since June 2007. I have removed it to back here pending solid citation. IT doesn't sound implausible for Williams to have tried to protect his career, nor for Schumacher to buy him out to get his view of the characters in place. Sadly, I think the 'other' casting that Burton had discussed would've been better, with Malkovich the Riddler and Williams 2F. If anyone finds citation, jsut readd this para with the cite. It's well-written, (I removed the speculative 'Apparently' that had been in there, but otherwise, it flows nicely and is absolutely clear about the facts), and we could use that bit of development hell info in there. ThuranX (talk) 14:10, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 1995

This "Harvey Two-Face" is a campier character, with no trace of the inner emotional struggle between his good and evil personalities that the post-Miller comics had emphasized. The movie instead has him cod-philosophizing on the unfairness of fate,

This all came off as one writer's opinion; others might find that all comics are naturally campy, and thus this was a perfect version of the character. Let's look for some reviews, Schumacher or TL Jones quotes, or other sources for this, or leave it out. ThuranX (talk) 14:16, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] DCAU

[edit] BTAS

The Two-Face of the DC Animated Universe was praised by many fans. Some were upset that his scarring took place in a chemical plant instead of being scarred by a crime boss in court, but according to Timm, this was changed to fit the storyline. Timm has stated that he wanted Two-Face/Harvey Dent to have a Sicilian accent; Al Pacino was actually offered to voice the character at one point, but declined. [citation needed]

  • It's been a year, this is all 'fans say' and uncited. I've pulled the entire paragraph. The two following sections are strong enough on their own. If someone wants to readd the Timm on origin and Sicilian/Pacino, let's add it to the B:TAS section, since that's where Timm did his creative work for this version, and let's get it cited. ThuranX (talk) 14:18, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
  • One para opens with "Prior to his disfigurement". Does this indicate that there were two episodes produced and broadcast BEFORE the Acid Splash episode, or that we saw Dent in flashbacks to the pre-acid years in two episodes produced after the first episode with Two-Face in it? ThuranX (talk) 14:21, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] TNBA

"A similar storyline appears in the comic books - however, in the books, Dent's third persona is called Janus, a reference to the Roman god of doors who had two faces, one facing forward, the other backward." Can we get some citation on a journalist drawign the comparison, or Timm discussing it? I see it as a sensible conclusion, but we should avoid SYNTH. ThuranX (talk) 14:24, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Another 'continuity' question occurs during the 'the final appearance' in the Justice League paragraph. IS this the final appearance ofthe cahracter in a show prudoced as part of the extended BTAS/TNBA 'universe', or is simply an old and withered Dent, rpesumed to be the 'last time we'll see that guy, cause this is just an epilogue' in-universe style comment? ThuranX (talk) 14:29, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Harvey Dent pic

[1] This is supposedly a picture of Harvey Dent post scarring from Dark Knight. I was wondering if anyone has any insight as to whether this is real or fake, and if real, if it should be mentioned in the article. 65.79.157.115 (talk) 20:14, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

At this point I believe Time/Warner is trying to keep a lid on the scarred face, there's at least on case of a leaked image being removed from a site at their request.
So, regardless of the authenticity of the flicker image, it would be best 1) not to use it in the article and 2) not to direct people to it. - J Greb (talk) 21:36, 13 May 2008 (UTC)