Talk:Twelfth Night

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Contents

[edit] Gender

"Shakespeare uses it to raise questions about human identity and whether such classifications as gender and class status are fixed entities or can be altered with a simple shift of clothes." This sounds like a theory to me.

[edit] Word Choices

Does the article have to use the word "thenceforth"? A lot of people who wish to understand Shakespeare's play aa bit better (if they feel they don't fully grasp his writing style and word usage) would just get confused and annoyed seeing a Shakespeare-esque word such as "thenceforth" in the middle of a plain-english plot summary. I've barely even heard the word in regular usage; others I'm sure will be outright befuddled [sic] by it. --72.144.175.89 03:44, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

  • Your idea is fine by me. It's a wiki: go ahead and change it. AndyJones 13:07, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Another distracting word choice comes at the beginning of the article: "Twelfth Night was presumingly written in 1600 to 1601..." I believe the author means "presumably." Presumingly means to be arrogant. Presumably means to take something as a fact from the surrounding evidence. Since no evidence is presented, even "presumably" doesn't seem quite right. How about "Twelfth Night is generally accepted to have been written between 1600 and 1601" or "Modern scholarship places the writing of Twelfth Night between 1600 and 1601." Of course you'll need to cite a source. 74.138.210.158 16:28, 8 June 2007 (UTC)Kenneth James Damrau

[edit] Good Mistress Accost

I assume the sentence asserting Sir Toby provokes Sir Andrew to make sexual overtures towards Maria references Act 1 Scene 3 when Sir Toby says "Accost, Sir Andrew, accost." It's not clear to me that Sir Toby is using accost to speak of sexual solicitation. Rather, in my opinion, Sir Toby is merely prompting Sir Andrew to properly greet Maria but the idiot Sir Andrew misunderstands him. I'm going to remove the relevant sentence. Please revert if I'm reading this wrong. Erroneous01 18:21, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

  • TOBY:Accost is front her, board her, woo her, assail her.
  • ANDREW: By my troth, I would not undertake her in this company. Is that the meaning of Accost? AndyJones 16:23, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
I think the answer is something of both. Andrew is using Accost, as to "greet", Maria. Andrew interprets that as her family name (Mary Accost). However, that misunderstanding also prompts Toby to mock the incompetent Andrew as per AndyJones. Logical2u 13:26, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Adaptations

Have there been any modern adaptations of this play? If so, what are they?--Light current 18:34, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok thats one. I thought there would be many more modern adaptations of such a good stroyline.--Light current 20:29, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

In what way does 12th Night have anyting to do with V for Vendetta? I have looked at the V for Vendetta and V for Vendetta (film) pages and have found no reference to 12th Night there. So how significant exactly are these references?--Tanyushka 23:13, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

  • I agree. The connection quoted (an actress in the film has also acted in the play) is just daft. I've removed it (without prejudice to someone writing something sensible). AndyJones 23:26, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Check Your Own Thing for a 1960s rock musical adaptation. Fitfatfighter 06:20, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Characters

Since Pokemon has an article for each character, surely Shakespeare must get the same treatement?

[edit] Location of Illyria

In the article it states that Illyria refers to Albania. Isn't it more in the area of modern Dalmatia?

It certainly is. I've had a go at rewriting the whole "where is Ilyria?" section because the original text says among other things that it didn't refer to a real area in Shakespeare's time, which is plain wrong, and there are arguments for Shakespeare wanting us to think it's set there (regardless of how surreal he then makes it). Agonoid 21:12, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Orsino

According to the accompanying interpretation/description of the German Reclam edition, the theory about the origin of Orsino's name is disputed. According to the text, it would have been very inappropriate to name such a character after a nobility present during the performance of the play.

It seems a bit odd this interpretation is presented as a factoid in the introductory section. — Ashmodai (talk · contribs) 23:41, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I'll go along with that. In fact I'm inclined to delete the entire opening line after the word "Shakespeare". (See below, "Twelfth Night or What You Will")--King Hildebrand 12:07, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Orsino means Little Bear, but I doubt that that gets us any further.--King Hildebrand 12:07, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually, it might; according to my lit. prof. bears in the early modern period were believed to suffer from 'chronic melancholy', as Orsino does. I'm not going to add it just on his word, but he is an expert on early modern phenamonology (whereas I can't even spell it properly). Matveiko 05:30, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cesario

I was wondering if there was anything important about the name "Cesario," as it would be unlike Shakespeare to have a character make up a name with no relevance to what it assigned to. Of course, it could just be a meaningless name, but I haven't found anything for or against it. Commander Regulus 23:18, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

It is unlike Shakespeare to have meaningless names. Stephen Orgel notes that "Cesario" both designates Viola as "belonging to Caesar," and therefore off-limits (I would cite the page if I had the book, Impersonations, handy), as well as "cut" (same root as scissors, scio, etc.), or castrated. That is to say, Viola self-names in sexual frustration. --Jgurd (talk) 18:10, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Twelfth Night or What You Will

Does anyone understand the origin of the name? The article states, "...named after the Twelfth Night holiday of the Christmas season." Well, there is such a date in the Christian calendar, also known as Epiphany, when tradition has it, the three wise men arrive at Bethlehem to pay their homage to the newborn Jesus. But what has that to do with the play? The action clearly takes place over several days, possibly weeks, none of which can be associated with any particular date on the calendar.

The subtitle, What You Will, suggests that Shakespeare on this occasion was at a loss (perhaps uniquely!) and could not think of any suitable title.

The opening line of the article begs the question, but singularly fails to answer it. As it adds nothing other than doubt and confusion, perhaps the misexplanation should be deleted.--King Hildebrand 12:03, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

This might be a useful source. An Improbable Fiction: J L Lockett --King Hildebrand 12:42, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

According to my English teacher, Twelfth Night, or What You Will was played in front of Queen Elizabeth I on the 12th day of Christmas. By the way, what do you mean "action." The plot of the play was a three month span. --Mayfare 00:11, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Feste's Mysterious Quote

In Act 5, Scene 1, Feste quotes the following:

"Why, "some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrown upon them..."

Feste did not attend with Sir Toby, Sir Andrew, and Fabian behind a boxtree to see Malvolio read the fake love letter. Feste's quote originated from that fake love letter. Was it a coincidence that Feste read the fake love letter after Malvolio finished reading the letter? Originally, Shakespeare planned Feste to attend with Sir Toby and Sir Andrew to see Malvolio reading the fake love letter. However, at the time that Fabian, Sir Toby, and Sir Andrew were watching Malvolio reading the fake love letter, Feste was entertaining Duke Orsino. Or did Shakespeare forget to change Feste's lines? May it also be something else different? --Mayfare 21:09, 10 April 2007 (UTC)do you like to look at yourself in the mirror after you get out of the shower?

Hey, Feste is in on the whole prank pulled on Malvolio. He is the one that disguises himself as a priest to visit Malvolio after he is locked up for being mad. The others could have shown him the letter or told him about the letter. (But yes, there may have been some rewrites that didn't get completely fixed.)--KEVP —Preceding unsigned comment added by 35.12.26.129 (talk) 04:53, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WP:SUBTITLES

I'm trying to get some comments for a proposed guideline about titles with subtitles. I would appreciate any comments over at WP:Village pump (policy)#WP:SUBTITLES. Thanks! superlusertc 2007 December 23, 08:38 (UTC)