Talk:Tuvans

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Quote: " uvans are also recognized as an ethnic minority in China."

Comment: I'm not so sure about that. The Tuvans aren't one of the 56 nationalities of China. It is not government-recognized that way. And if one speak of "recognized by some fellow Chinese", I don't know how NPOV that can be. --Menchi 21:52, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)


Comment: I did some checking and Tuvans in China are actually included under the Mongol nationality. --Abstakt 7 Jul 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] History

I'm going to start adding to the history section little by little. Some things won't be fleshed out until I'm done. Well see how it goes... --Stacey Doljack Borsody 00:54, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chinese rule

From Tuva#History: It established itself as a khanate in the fifteenth century until 1757 when it was brought under Chinese Manchu rule to 1911.  Andreas  (T) 17:43, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

That statement seems wrong. Tuva was part of the Dzungarian Empire until 1755 according to my sources. That hardly makes it a separate khanate. I'm not currently familiar with what is written in that Tuva article, but I don't agree that the sections should be merged. The history section in this article should regard the history of the Tuvan people, not the history of Tuva. At a later date I think I should visit what is written in the Tuva article. --Stacey Doljack Borsody 18:33, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

It looks like the creation of Tuva as a khanate in the Tuva article happened here [1]. The previous version of the article seems more correct. --Stacey Doljack Borsody 18:40, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
The information that is missing in this section is 1757 [...] it was brought under Chinese Manchu rule. This is implrtant for the readers of the novel "Das geraubte Kind" (The robbed infant)[2] by Galsan Tschinag, plotted at the time just before the beginning of Chinese rule. Andreas  (T) 20:26, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
There's actually a lot missing. It will all get added eventually, although the flavor of my writing will continue to focus on the history of the people, not the state. --Stacey Doljack Borsody 20:49, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
In any case, the two are connected, so the two history sections should be coordinated in some way. As they are now, the Tuvan article treats the early history, while at Tuva, the history of the state starts basically with the 1860 Chinese-Russian treaty. That's fine as long as the two articles agree where they overlap, and there are links to reference one to the other. I am just an interested reader, so I cannot contribute, sorry.  Andreas  (T) 21:39, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
The Tuvans were definitely subjects of the Qing Empire. Their lands were known in documents of the Qing era as 唐努烏梁海 Tángnǔ Wūliánghǎi, which I believe is normally romanized as Tannu Uryankhai. Ebizur 00:50, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
By the way, the government of the Republic of China (i.e., the KMT-led regime that is currently the de facto ruler of Taiwan) has still not officially rescinded its claim of dominion over the Uryankhai (Tuvans) and their lands. The territory of the Tuvans, Mongols, and Buryats is technically still "Chinese territory" according to RoC documents. Ebizur 00:54, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Population stats

Somehow I don't think the numbers given for Tsengel Tuvans are right. Example http://www.bjreview.com.cn/nation/txt/2006-12/09/content_50337.htm says "There are about 200,000 Tuvans worldwide, with 30,000 living in Mongolia and the rest mainly in the Republic of Tuva, which is part of the Russia." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sborsody (talk • contribs) 21:29, 9 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Uriankhai

Uriankhai are Mongol speaking Tuvans out of the Tuvans area (Bayan-Ölgii, Khovd). Bogomolov.PL 11:26, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Maybe it would be a good idea to place a dismabiguation instead of a redirect? AFAIK the Uriankhai in Khovsgol aren't all Tuvans either. Yaan 09:20, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Disambiguation pages are meant for articles with the same name. For example, if you had two different articles called Uriankhai (region) and Uriankhai (people). A better solution would be to move some of the info about the Uriankhai name in this article into Uriankhai and drop the disambiguation part. --Stacey Doljack Borsody 18:28, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "related groups" info removed from infobox

For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all {{Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 20:55, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Shaman image

I have inserted a shaman image into Religion section. It was a former lead image of the Shamanism article (now moved into a section about revitalization efforts). The lack of details known about the image was a problem. Among the few certain things: the image is rather recent. Later (= just now) I have found an image in Hoppál 2005: 117 that looks similar. If this similarity proves to be real, than probably our Kyzyl shamn image illustrates a Tuvan shaman, possibly member of a revitalization organization called "Düngür" (= "shaman drum"), run in the Tuvan capital Kyzyl. Similar features: headdress (feathers, hanging pearls); tools on the table (candle, [oil] lamp, stick).

Hoppál, Mihály (2005). Sámánok Eurázsiában (in Hungarian). Budapest: Akadémiai Kiadó. ISBN 963-05-8295-3.  The title means “Shamans in Eurasia”, the book is published also in German, Estonian and Finnish. Site of publisher with short description on the book (in Hungarian).

Physis (talk) 01:48, 27 January 2008 (UTC)