Talk:Turku and Pori County

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[edit] Swedish names of FINNISH counties?

Doesnt it strike anyone else as ODD that the counties/municipalities/provinces of FINLAND are in SWEDIH on Wikipedia?

No, at least not for me. Besides, the whole province was largely bilingual, particularly in the archipelago south to Åbo. As a historic province of Sweden (and of course, more recently of Finland) there's a good reason to bear the Swedish names for the old Swedish towns. I'll add the nowadays more common Finnish names in parentheses.

Later, the province was officially called Province of Turku and Pori in English, at least during its last years. Ultrix 09:10, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Of course it's odd and biased and should be moved into "Turku and Pori County" (or "Turun ja Porin lääni") which is how the majority of English speakers know the two towns forming the name. There's no need to split a continuous history (of a place) in sections according to past language politics. LONDON isn't known and written about as LONDINIUM in Wikipedia and of course a county which name has the towns of Turku (Finnish speaking majority) and Pori (Finnish speaking majority) in it should be called Turun ja Porin Lääni (or the County of Turku and Pori) in English. There's no need to make things anyhow exceptional when talking about Finland or Finnish place names. Clarifer 10:47, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.


A few points: 1. The county doesn't exist anymore BUT the two towns Turku and Pori do exist. 2. Even though Finnish became an official language of Finland only in 1883, both towns have been known in the Finnish language just as long as they have been known in the Swedish language. 3. Both the UN and the Research Institute for the Languages of Finland recommends that demographics - not past language politics - is determinative when using Finnish place names in a foreign language environment, for this please see e.g. [1]. 4. London isn't known as Londinium in Wikipedia. Londinium is discussed as Roman London here. (comparable to "the Swedish period of Turku and Pori County". Clarifer 11:17, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

Åbo and Björneborg County → Turku and Pori County — According to the naming convention: let's use majority language for placenames. MPorciusCato 09:37, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Add  # '''Support'''  or  # '''Oppose'''  on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~. Please remember that this is not a vote; comments must include reasons to carry weight.
  • Support. The names Turku and Pori are widely used in English language by non-Scandinavians. There is no English discussion on the county itself. The county has always had a Finnish-speaking majority. Using the city names in form normal to English makes the term more understandable. --MPorciusCato 10:15, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Comment When there is an established English name for a place, that is to be preferred. In some cases, this name may come from a minority language of the place in question. For example, the name Kiev is established in English, and Kyiv is not often seen, except when people are making a special effort to conform to the Ukraine's preferred usage. For a more clearcut example, Guangzhou is not called Gwongzau in English. Personally, I don't know whether the Swedish or Finnish name is more common in English. But if English has a definite preference, it doesn't matter what the majority local name is. Joeldl 09:22, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

The English preference for both cities is, to my best knowledge, the Finnish version. However, some Swdish- and Norwegian-speakers may use Swedish versions even when writing English. This article was probably originally written by a Swedish-speaker, thus the name. --MPorciusCato 06:30, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
In the absence of evidence of a clear preference in English, it makes sense to default to the U.N. convention based on the majority in the locality. So it will be up to any opponents of the move to provide that evidence. Otherwise, I will support a move to the Finnish name. Joeldl 07:20, 2 May 2007 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

This article has been renamed from Åbo and Björneborg County to Turku and Pori County as the result of a move request. --Stemonitis 10:32, 5 May 2007 (UTC)