Talk:Tupac Shakur/Archive 5

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Contents

Baltimore Orgin??

It has come to my attention that Tupac was not from Marin City but actually from Baltimore. I have sources that state this. Anyone care to comment? Mitchellandness1 (talk) 05:33, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I've discussed this here before. Tupac was born in NYC, moved to Baltimore as a preteen, then to Marin City as a teenager. Marin City was where he lived when he was discovered by Digital Underground and moved into the mainstreem media. He then moved to Oakland, apparently Atlanta for some time, and finally, L.A. The ORIGIN was left as Marin because it is where he ORIGINATED as both a mainstream rap artist (he was living in Marin when he was signed) and actor (he was living in Marin when he received the roll of Bishop in Juice). -Wakamusha (talk) 23:40, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
Do any of you have a WP:SOURCE for your findings? Remember that copyrighted videos don't count. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 23:42, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
Tupac was living in Baltimore as a teen and moved to Marin City in his late teenage years, he states this in the Tupac: Ressurection documentary, thus leading me to believe he was'nt raised in Marin City, and originally origins from Baltimore. 69.209.149.189 (talk) 20:22, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Pac was raised in 3 cities: NYC, Baltimore, and Marin City. NYC is his BIRTHPLACE, and Marin is his ORIGIN, because he was discovered there. -Wakamusha (talk) 01:52, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Apologies

Someone went on my account and added something about Tupac having relations with with andy warhol. I've removed it.

--AustinWellbelove 09:54, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I cant say for sure if 2Pac will come back (DONT GET ME WRONG I HOPE SO TOO) but I do know that the events that took place in Las Vegas, Nevada on Sept.13, 1996 were nothing more than a cover up. The Don Killuminati fooled the world . Some say hes a legend. I say hes a genius & nothing less than a mastermind. To all the TRUE 2Pac fans WE KNOW THE TRUTH. Unlike many others who come up with unrealistic explainations such as "voice-over/not the real 2Pac", "his autopsy explains it all" and whole bunch of other dumb ****. To everybody who is considered "fake" they dont realize that their only being fake to themselves.So please everybody stop trying to cover up the truth. We found it and see everything clear now .But the question remains "Will everyone see it clear or will the rest be confused?" If you think Im nuts maybe this will prove you wrong.

Tupac is da shit and he's still alive! He lives in Tanzania and no one can find him. He was crip cuz! —Preceding unsigned comment added by LeManche211 (talk • contribs) 23:17, 29 January 2008 (UTC)


F***** Wit The Wrong N****Italic text

"aint tryna help the feds getta case for conspiracy....they keep it poppin lotta bustaz wanna seeme fall / I ****** yo ***** & now this new **** gon fadem all/ my ****** ball,made a call for some backup,the lil homies & my dogz in the black truck/ buck buck was the sound as they gatz burst/no need fa ambulance baby bring the black hearse/shoulda never ****** around busta how you figga makin moves on the wrong *****? itz wat it sounds like ding ding ding

BreathinItalic text

"Complete my mission my competition no longer beefin/I murdered all them bustaz now Im the last ********** breathin"

Starin Through My RearviewBold text

Multiple gunshots fill the block,the funs tops/****** is callin cops,people shot,nobody stops I wonder when the world stop carin last night,two kids shot while the whole block starin"

Hail MaryItalic text "when they turn out the lights/Ill be there in the dark,thuggin eternally throughout my heart"

He retold his own death and even explained Biggies death. Now come & tell me hes dead. Come on. I triple dog dare ya.

P.S.Theres no "voice-over" in his music. Even if there is such a thing and somebody wanted to do that theres one last little thing they gotta do: get the copyrights from his mom. I HIGHLY DOUBT Afeni would direspect her son by doing such a thing. But anywayz sorry to spoil it for all the nimrods out there but hey people its time to get back to reality so stop foolin yourselves. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.204.240.70 (talk) 07:50, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Worldwide Album Sales

All Eyez On Me 16 Million? Until The End Of Time 8.9 Million? Greatest Hits 15 Million?

Are THESE CONFIRMED......Never heard such worldwide figures....Needs a Source otherwise I will delete these figures

You never know what you had until you lost it. - some wise chineseguy TUPAC IS GAY:)

Its said that he sold around 75 million alboums worldwide... 50 mill in America alone... those stats look to be too much for just three albums?? but thats just my opinion... no factfiling here.. lol

The numbers in the intro are confirmed and sourced (Guinness Book of World Records), and they are for more than 3 albums. Those numbers wise chineseguy quotes are not unreasonable, several of his albums are multi-multi-...-platinum. But if the figures are not sourced to RIAA or something then someone needs to add the source to them. SqlPac 19:23, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Peter Travers' Review

I challenge the following sentence from the article: 'His first starring role was in the 1992 movie Juice as Bishop, a trigger happy teen, for which he was hailed by Rolling Stone's Peter Travers as "the film's most magnetic figure."'

Travers' review does not say that. You should fix it. SqlPac 04:05, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Jada Pinkett

I challenge the following from the article: 'In the documentary Tupac: Resurrection, Shakur says, "Jada is my heart. She will be my friend for my whole life," and Smith calls Shakur "one of my best friends. He was like a brother. It was beyond friendship for us. The type of relationship we had, you only get that once in a lifetime." A poem written by Shakur titled "Jada" appears in his book, The Rose That Grew From Concrete, which also includes a poem dedicated to Smith called "The Tears in Cupid's Eyes".'

It does not add any value, it is trivia, and should be removed. SqlPac 04:08, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I believe its there to back up the preceding statement that he was close friends with jada pinkett

Numbers

I challenge the following from the article: "After serving 11 months of his sentence, ..." According to the Manual of Style (Dates and Numbers), "11" should be spelled out as a word. SqlPac 04:19, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Commas

I challenge the following from the article: 'His second album, Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z., was released in 1993. Heavily produced by Stretch and the Live Squad, the album generated two hits, "Keep Ya Head Up" and "I Get Around", , the latter featuring guest appearances by members of the Digital Underground.'

The second comma after "I Get Around" is superfluous and should be removed. SqlPac 04:23, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I Get Around trivia

I challenge the following from the article: "It was originally going to be a Digital Underground track but instead Shock G gave it to Shakur."

It is trivia and does not add value to the article. SqlPac 04:23, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Name Pronunciation

Considering this article is being published in over 30 languages, you might consider adding the IPA pronunciation of Tupac's name to the article. SqlPac 04:47, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Wfy

There are over a dozen links that should be considered just in the intro. If you're going to link "cardiac arrest", for instance, then what's the justification for not linking "respiratory failure"? And how many people who aren't in the music business and don't frequent concerts know what a "roadie" is? I counted almost 30 new links that could be added just to the intro, although the list could be narrowed down a bit for some of the more common words (assuming "racial equality", "drug abuse", "alcohol abuse", and others are eliminated as being well-known enough outside of the U.S. to merit leaving them unlinked). Enjoy. SqlPac 04:47, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Book Trivia

I challenge the following from the article: "Steinberg has kept copies of the books that Tupac read, which include J.D. Salinger's Catcher in the Rye, Jamaica Kincaid's At the Bottom of the River, Herman Melville's Moby Dick, Eileen Southern's Music of Black Americans, and the feminist writings of Alice Walker and Robin Morgan. Most of these books were read before the age of 20."

This does not add any value to the article, it is trivia, and should be removed.

I have over a hundred more of these, and I'll feed them to you slowly once I see that these are properly handled. SqlPac 04:19, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

catcher in the rye is a great book btw :) --84.250.27.36 21:06, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

      I've seen with my own eyes the books that Tupac read,they are in Leila Steingberg's house!

Lex Vick

So... do you think that it should be mentioned that his favorite rapper was Rakim? and that is where he got a lot of his lyrical inspiration from. That is what he said; in songs, interviews, and his movie.

Poor flow

Hi. The second paragraph has unexplained gaps. It describes Shakur being robbed and shot, and how that sparked the East/West rivalry, then jumps to him being released from prison, with no mention of how or why he was incarcerated. This should be cleaned up and the gaps filled in. --Segaba 14:30, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

It was fixed. Then reverted. Then fixed again. Then reverted again. Give it your best shot. SqlPac 14:50, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
I saw that too. I might look into it today or tomorrow myself. Tayquan hollaMy work 19:41, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. I was about to start a topic about this on the talk, but it looks like you beat me to it. The lead is horrible, it doesn't summarize the rest of the article, his life or who he was properly, nor is it properly wikified. ♠ SG →Talk 04:27, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
See above comments. I counted over 30 items that could be wikified in the intro alone. Much of this has already been done a couple of times, including a rewrite of the intro. See history for more info. SqlPac 14:57, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Good Article Review

This article has been brought to WP:GA/R for review and possible delisting of its Good Article status. Listed below are the reasons submitted to WP:GA/R for delisting.

Nomination for delisting: I believe the article does not meet the GA criteria found in WP:WIAGA. In particular, it fails to meet Criteria #1 (Well Written) and Criteria #2 (Factually Accurate and Verifiable). Of concern are many sections without reference, many unsourced trivial facts that have been added, poor introduction, and poor wikification of the intro and throughout. Examples include:

  • As has been pointed out on the article talk page, the intro. has degenerated into a poor state and is quite jumpy/choppy. It does not properly summarize the article.
  • Also pointed out on the talk page, the Intro alone has dozens of opportunities for proper wikification. Wikification throughout the intro and the article is sporadic and uneven. For example, an author felt it important to wikify "cardiac arrest" in the Intro, but did not feel it important to wikify "respiratory failure". In this instance, it should be both (preferable) or neither.
  • Also pointed out on the talk page, the article includes a lot of trivia. Some examples include:
    • Section on Jada Pinkett-Smith that should be summarized in one or two sentences.
    • List of books the subject read, which is included to make a point. The same point can (and has) been made, in summarized form, previously in the article without a book list.
    • Trivial items also include career trivia and paragraphs of unsourced trivial statements about subject's future plans at time of death.
  • Redundant redundancy is a problem. Some items are redundant, such as mentioning the subject's suspicions that certain other rappers had set him up to be killed, which is mentioned (verbosely) no less than 3 times (Intro, "Life on Death Row", "The November 1994 Shooting"), and the writing of the screenplay "Live2Tell", which is discussed in "Acting Career" and "Prison Sentence".
  • Overlapping sections are a problem, with some items apparently in the wrong section. As an example, the end of the "Early Life" section includes several sentences discussing the beginning of the subject's career. The next section is titled "Early Career".
  • Fan site sourcing. In particular the trivial items are sourced to Fan Sites, like this Russian Fan Site, Tupac Mania.
  • Direct (mis-)quotes are not sourced. A direct quote from film critic Peter Travers ("the film's most magnetic figure") is actually a misquote, *and* it is unsourced. The correct quote and source were previously included in the article, but were subsequently changed.
  • There are two paragraphs of completely *unsourced* trivia at the end of the "Life on Death Row" section.
  • There are unsourced quotes from a rape victim, as well as unsourced trivia that includes very strong statements like the assertion that Shakur developed the word (Thug Life) into an acronym standing for "The Hate U Gave Little Infants Fucks Everybody".
  • The article needs a good copyediting. There are grammar and punctuation errors throughout. For instance, the double comma in the album generated two hits, "Keep Ya Head Up" and "I Get Around", , the latter.
  • Some areas of the article do not follow the guidelines at the Manual of Style (Dates and Numbers), such as the spelling out of certain numbers ("11" = "eleven" in the intro., while the number "6" a few sentences later is spelled out "six"; construction should be paralleled).

The article appears to have largely degenerated into an unsourced, poorly constructed, substandard hodge-podge of trivia about an extremely important figure in hip-hop. Changes have been attempted to bring it inline with Wikipedia guidelines &emdash; including copyediting, verification of sources, addition of more sources, removal of trivia, rewriting of entire sections, etc. Unfortunately attempts to bring the article up to WP:GA or even WP:FA status are constantly reverted. This article should be delisted immediately, and until such time as it is brought up to the WP:GA level. SqlPac 15:49, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Surprise, surprise... Tupac's Not Dead

At least not according to the first sentence of your article. Might want to check those facts. SqlPac 18:59, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism happens on a nearly daily basis to this article; nothing to get worked up about. It has since been reverted. -- Phoenix2 (talk, review) 19:30, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Merely pointing out it needed to be fixed. SqlPac 23:26, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
My bad. If you're watching the article, be prepared to see a lot of such activity. -- Phoenix2 (talk, review) 23:40, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
I check in every once in a while, but not so much since it's gotten so bad. Thanks. SqlPac 00:53, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

2pac exposed biggie and bad boy

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dCciv39q5Ms&mode=related&search=

Check that out and you will see who was the realest!!

And who's that? -- Phoenix2 (talk, review) 17:30, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Can you please tell us your oppinnion if you have one so we can tell ours and have a conversation about this not linking some video and figuring out self what you mean because i dont get what you mean i dont know if that makes me dumb I personally dont think so but anyways you shouldn't say like "see who was the realest" instead of that you could do it like this "i thikn that x was the realest and this is why i think so" then link it and with x i mean mathematical term of presentating a changing carracter number etc dont know how to explane it i hope you got it now if u didnt i dont care.

A Blood???

I am surprised to see Tupac Shakur listed as a Blood and a gang member in one of his categories. Could you people in this area give a citation? Citations are needed in Wikipedia, you know.--Triple-Quadruple 07:27, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure that's known. It's mentioned a few times in several of the references already provided, so an additonal citation simply needs to be added. -- Phoenix2 (talk, review) 17:32, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
This was mentioned previously. There is no mention of this "fact" anywhere in the article. It is not sourced. It appears to be something that someone thought would be a really cool trivia item to add via Categories, circumventing the normal scrutiny applied to unsourced statements in the article text. SqlPac 19:57, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

READ WHAT I WROTE ON THE OTHER SIMILAR ARTICLE thank you i know writing with capital letters is childish but got your attention didnt I?--84.250.27.36 13:12, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

He wasn't necessarily a blood. He feuded with Crips cuz Big hired the Crips as security. Suge Knight was a blood so they assumed Pac was. Dre wasn't a blood he was on Death Row, Snoop was a crip...he was on Death Row. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.14.242.118 (talk) 01:29, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Parallel Construction of City Names in InfoBox

You should either add separate links to states as in the reference to Las Vegas, Nevada; add the state to the city name description link as in the reference to New York City, New York; or remove the state altogther as in the references to Oakland and Los Angeles.

New York City, New York USA
Las Vegas, Nevada USA
Oakland
Los Angeles
SqlPac 20:23, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

PAC not a blood

And im tired of people trying to say he was. This page is listed under the "bloods" category. If someone knows how to fix that, then please fix it. Also, I've been trying to take Pac off the Bloods article, but I guess I haven't been around long enough yet. Anybody who knows enough about Pac to know that he wasn't B or C, FIX IT!!! That is, if u can... Wakamusha 02:31, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Sources? A song does not meet WP:RS. KillerChihuahua?!? 15:21, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Time to whine seriously pac was not gang related he was maybe envolved with some bloods trough death row and maybe envolved with some cripz trough snoop dogg. Sorry for my english... This bloods thing is because of the "mob" tattoo that 2pac had and he means "Money Over Bitches" with it. It doesen't mean "Member Of Bloods". He also had a panther tattoo. If he has to be listed its Black Panther cos his mom stepfather etc were Black Panthers. I know it doesent make sence when read the first time but read it a couple of times and u get what im saying.--84.250.27.36 13:03, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Wouldn't say that dre is gangrelated either...

Tupac was shot 5 times. Look at the Tupac house of Blues performance when he says "I got Shot 5 times, and i sold 5 million records. Listen to the song "All Out" "Letter To My Unborn" or just about any song from his Death Row days, he braggs about it every chance he gets. Triple Quadruple, getting shot doesnt make you a great rapper.

but being shot and survives makes a great story, doesn't it? If not, try that out yourself and let us know how it goes. 75.4.229.242 13:42, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

2pac was not a crip or blood. Isn't it proof enough that he wore both a red and a blue bandana at different times?Drumac 08:03, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Birth name yet again: Coroner's report is NOT a reliable source

Is there ANY other source for the LPC name? KillerChihuahua?!? 15:21, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

As mentioned, LVPD listed it as an Alias on official documentation, if you consider the police reliable. SqlPac 16:01, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
And that was the same source, in all meaningful sense. It is not a source for a birth name, it is a source for an alias. KillerChihuahua?!? 16:05, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
Correct. That's why I said it is listed as an Alias by that source. There is, of course, the "magic", invisible original birth certificate that no one has proof ever really existed... I know some would like to source that, although I don't know how you source a "magic", invisible document. SqlPac 17:26, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
I cannot watch this article as much as I'd like. Please revert and inform me if anyone ever edits this article to state that LPC or any variant was his birth name, or anything other than an alias. Thanks much. KillerChihuahua?!? 17:44, 24 May 2007 (UTC)


Article removed from the Good Article list

As a result of consensus following a week-long discussion at WP:GA/R, it was decided to delist this article from GA status. Please see the archived discussion for a list of suggested fixes needed; after the fixes have been made, please renominate the article at WP:GAC for another review. Thank you and happy editing!--Jayron32|talk|contribs 17:39, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

pac's name must be mentioned on this page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_certification , i just i was woundering why eminem's name was there and pac's wasn't 212.103.163.149 11:04, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Source for that article: RIAA table KillerChihuahua?!? 11:09, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

btw , pac's name is there...217.53.78.47 14:12, 1 June 2007 (UTC)


Bogus Info?

This paragraph reads as suspect to me: "Although no one has ever been formally charged, nor publicly identified by the police as a suspect, police sources have indicated they believe that Tony O'Connell, an irish drug dealer who shot East Coast Rapper Skateboard P (A.K.A Peter Rooney) was responsible. Officers in the Compton, California Police Department Gang Unit claimed in a leaked report the Crips were bragging about the killing soon after O Connell returned from Las Vegas." I can't find any articles that mention a Tony O'Connell in relation to Tupac's death. The only rapper who goes by the name Skateboard P that I know of is Pharell Williams and he hasn't ever been shot to my knowledge. Also, I'm pretty sure the Crips wouldn't be bragging about killing Tupac if some "Irish Drug Dealer" did it. I suspect vandalism but I'll leave the paragraph and let others decide.Citizen Don 03:36, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

It's probably vandalism at its finest. There was an article (I believe in the LA Times) which was cited in a prior version (it might even be cited in this one - not sure anymore), in which a reporter stated that informants had revealed to him the identity of a gang member who shot Tupac. I believe the reporter even gave the shooter's name. Supposedly this gang member was killed before the cops could get their hands on him. All this stuff you copied above about the "Irish Drug Dealer" sounds like straight up nonsense. If it's not sourced, delete it. SqlPac 04:23, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
On second though, it's not sourced. It's gone. Whoever added it, feel free to add it back in when you have a verifiable source or three. SqlPac 04:25, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Also there was an entire paragraph and a half of unsourced trivia crap. Whoever added it, feel free to add it back in when you have a verifiable source. Or three. SqlPac 04:28, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Was Tupac Muslim?

OK, here is my support for that, though I'm not sure: Tupacs mother Afeni Shakur, and stepfather Mutulu Shakur, are both Islamic converts through the Black Panthers The general tyes to Islam through the Black Panthers The word Shakur translates from Arabic as "faithful to Allah"

Though this does not, I believe, offer concise proof, it does allow reasonable belief room, which should put it up to debate. Arabic Pilot 07:15, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

His first name is of Incan/Peruvian origin, so was Tupac a follower of the Incan faith? Hmm... He also seems to have some Christian-centric tattoos, like the cross that covered nearly his entire back, or the tattoo of Jesus on the cross on his arm, or his tattoo that references Exodus. Is that the debate you were looking for? SqlPac 15:41, 17 June 2007 (UTC)


Kadafi was Muslim, that's for sure. :) Faith in Allah!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.162.185.237 (talk) 07:14, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Alot of his lyrics site references to Islam. e.g. "spiritual lyrics like the holy Quran" I believe he has also stated his faith in one of his earlier songs. I don't see what the problem is? It's common knowledge that he was accepted of being of Islamic faith. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.165.142.168 (talk) 08:50, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

If you want to define his faith through song lyrics, "Hail Mary" means he was Catholic right? C'mon, really... SqlPac (talk) 16:57, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Tupac was not a Muslim. For one Tupac was cremated, as all Shakur's are customed to. Muslims do not beleive in cremation. Tupac was a Christian. In an interview he stated, "I am me because of Jesus and God....the reason I am who I am today is because I can look directly into my faith (Christianity) and into my soul... I have to do things with truth and honesty because I have to repay for that blessing, that came from Jesus. If God gives you a gift and you waste it thats the curse.." He had a cross on his back which symbolizes Christianity and Biblical references like Exodus tattoed to his body. Yes, some of the Outlawz praticed Islam and tried to convince Tupac but he never converted. None of his lyrics talk about the Quaran, so I don't know what you are talking about. Hysteria2424 (talk) 14:36, 23 March 2008 (UTC)


Tupac was not a Muslim, however, his step father is a Muslim. And Tupac had respect and knowledge of most religions. (86.21.90.165 (talk) 20:49, 21 March 2008 (UTC))

Tupac Amaru Shakur was born Lesane Parish Crooks

I've read the article about 2pac,and i saw that it missed that his given birthname is Lesane Parish Crooks. I found out that you needed back up on his LPC name,so here it is. I'm a big Pac fan,have his portait on my right chest. I've done thousands of hours research surrounding his death and all the theories about him faking his death. In 2005 i've met Leila Steinberg,the lady who took him in her home in Marin City,and we are close friends now. and if you want to find out more about Tupac, mail me

Morphlex-7@hotmail.com

Lex Vick, Los Angeles,CA —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.109.75.192 (talk • contribs) 19:02, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

While I appreciate the offer, if you have a source we can use on Wikipedia which states that his birth name is LPC, please post information about it on the talk page of that article. Right now, we have two sources which state LPC was an alias of Tupac, and no source which meets Wikipedia's requirements of reliable sourcing. Please do post on the talk page of the article, and not on my talk page, so that other editors will be able to contribute to the discussion about the article. Thanks much - KillerChihuahua?!? 19:03, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

The sources i have are the documentries i own on DVD named: Thug Angel, Tupac Vs., Thug Immortal, Before i wake and ofcourse Tupac: Resurrection. I suggest instead of just putting the names on the site,watch them and learn.

A close friend of mine named Leila Steinberg,yes that Leila Steinberg,who co-produced 'Thug Angel',even confirmed the given birth name as Lesane Parish Crooks.

Afeni Shakur did not know who the father was when he was born. She changed her and her son's name when she married Mutulu Shakur.

Talking about Leila,that concert was in her own backyard. She also arranged the meeting with Atron Gregory because she semi-managed him in the beginning of his career.

With kind regards, Lex Vick

Pac's Life IS NOT Gold!

I have something to say as to the sales of Pac's Life. I while back i noticed that the album was taking a long time to be certified platnium, or gold for that matter. Beneath the sales chart was a worldwide fact that had no references. But, the last tab for his weekly sales i made the number up out of nowhere and it still has not been editied. I wanted the number to push his worldiwde sales past 500,000, which would give him gold status worldwide. The reason i bring this up is because it was so easy just to type any number in there and no one is willing to check and see if it is true. Also i noticed that there was one week where it stated that he sold exactly 7,000. I believe there is no way such a perfect number like that would come up. So i suggest we find out how much the album really sold, and not what we have posted. I am not a member of wikipedia but my screenname is matavelli33, let me know what i can do to fix this misunderstanding. —The preceding comment is by 24.3.205.94 (talk • contribs) 24.3.205.94: Please sign your posts!

many still believe pac is alive

i think someone with more knowledge on this topic could probably add a section regarding proof or conspiracies of how tupac died, if he died!

yes!finally someone mentions it! i foudn an artice about it, it blew my mind away! here is the link----> http://members.aol.com/subseven/tupac.html


one of the facts on the link above says that the license plate is suspicious because it's 61671, something about seven and the sum of 6 and 1 being seven..............or maybe they put it there because that's his birthday...june 16 1971 i hate when people word things to try and keep their beliefs going —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.79.150.108 (talk) 08:45, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

There could be a "Controversy" section with speculations of him "faking his death" you could include verse like this one...

"I heard rumor I died, murdered in cold blood dramatized. Pictures of me in my final stages, you know mama cried, but that was fiction, some coward got the story twisted, Like I no longer existed, mysteriously missing, But I'm worldwide baby, I ain't hard 2 find" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.14.242.118 (talk) 01:33, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Come on ppl, he got "shot" on the strip of Las Vegas after a TYSON fight and no one saw shit?? He's alive. Ask dave shappell. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Idon'twannahaveausername (talk • contribs) 08:30, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

GA failure

I am quick failing this article due to non fair use of images of album covers - without a rationonale. Some of the issues above could also be a problem for GA, but other stuff may escape. In any case it looks like its not quite stable yet. GB 22:42, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, there's no way it would have passed a GA. I thought it was very inappropriate of the editor to nominate this for a GA and not even check if the issues from the previous delisting were addressed. If you look at the "to do list" and the references, it should have been obvious that this was not up to standard. Spellcast 22:00, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Grammar Issue

Grammar or a simple typo, the last sentence of "1.3 Acting Career" it is written

Later on while he was in prison who wrote the screenplay for an upcoming film "Live 2 Tell" which tells the story of a teenager who becomes a drug lord.

I believe the "who" should be changed to "he." --Oz8ball1 18:21, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

So fix it. Spellcast 22:00, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

i think it was a question? instead of a dot there should be a questionmark (?) or then who should be he --84.250.27.36 19:34, 12 August 2007 (UTC)


Legacy

Requesting family bio please, children, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.228.39.126 (talk) 01:45, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

What sentence?

"Later, Shakur was shot five times in a recording studio lobby in Manhattan and was robbed. Following the incident, Shakur grew suspicious that other figures in the rap industry had prior knowledge of the shooting and did not warn him; the controversy would help spark the East Coast-West Coast hip hop rivalry. After serving eleven months of his sentence, Shakur was released from prison on an appeal financed by Marion "Suge" Knight, the CEO of Death Row Records."

There's an incongruous jump there from him getting shot to being in gaol, which isn't explained. I'm not saying it's incorrect, because I don't know anything about Tupac Shakur (that's why I was looking at his Wiki article in the first place) but I don't see how he can just have been incarcerated as a result of getting shot. Can somebody who knows what they're talking about please fix this?

58.108.239.245 15:34, 9 September 2007 (UTC)Tom 09/10/07

He was convicted of sexual abuse shortly after his shooting. Fixed lead section to make less confusing. --Ted87 22:47, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Birth place

Pac wasn't born in East Harlem, he was born in Brooklyn, please add that to the text. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.178.231.87 (talk) 21:53, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

The above is correct, Tupac was born in BK. Also his "Origin" should not be down as "Marin County" His origin is Brooklyn, New York! Could someone please change this? (86.21.90.165 (talk) 20:53, 21 March 2008 (UTC))

career start

His career started in 1989 not in 1991, if you don't believe it, listen to the album the lost tapes, the recordings where made in 1989. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.178.213.24 (talk) 17:09, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

It probably refers to when his first album was released. I'm sure he actually started rapping much earlier but how would anyone know when that was besides himself? Best to go with the release of his first albumDrumac 07:55, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


Club 662

It says here, and many other articles on the web that Club 662 was/is owned by Death Row. This is untrue. It was in fact owned by someone named Helen Thomas and had no association to Death Row apart from it being frequented by Death Row members and other celebrities. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bling00 (talk • contribs) 07:16, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. If this cannot be verified, it should be removed.Sephiroth storm 06:27, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

RIAA hating on 2pac

According to the RIAA 2pac and Makaveli are seperate artist so he doesnt get the sales for the 7 day theory album, yet artist like Jefferson Airplane have their name like "Jefferson Airplain/starship". The RIAA also hasnt kept up with 2pac sales so according to their standards hes still at 36.5 million albums, (Only .5 more then the last time they made a chart for best selling artist). Are they scared that an artist like 2pac would out sell white artist like Bob Dylan, Eric Clapton,etc... —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Blizzard King (talk • contribs) 03:56, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Apparently you need to pay a fee or something for them to check the sales and I guess Suge or whoever doesn't want to put in the money.Drumac 07:49, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Suge has no control over it, his mother has the rights to his publishing. The RIAA is usually pretty accurate, maybe he just hasn't sold since death. We're in an era of CD Burning, a obstacle Pac never faced while living. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.14.242.118 (talk) 01:37, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

about.com

About.com is not a reliable source for saying 2pac is the most influential rapper of all time. If you notice it is just one guy who writes articles about things. However many people (including me) do believe that 2pac is the most influential artist of all time so there must be a more reliable source somewhere. Otherwise that statement should be deleted.Drumac 07:53, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

origin

Tupac's origin is listed as L.A. That may be where he lived when he died, but not when he was signed or discovered. By this logic, we should have to go through every actor in Hollywood and change their origin to a place they moved to AFTER they became famous??! We should consider changing this. Here are several more options:

New York City: His birthplace Baltimore, MD: Where he began his raping and acting careers Marin City, CA: Where he lived when joining Digital Underground Oakland: Where he lived when getting signed by Interscope, as well as receiving the role for Juice

Reasons to change the origin FROM L.A.: -He only lived there continuously for the last year of his life -He didn't even sign to Death Row when living in L.A.; he was still incarcerated at Clinton Correctional Facility -The origin has previously stated both Oakland and Marin, possibly changed by L.A. residents trying to claim Pac as being "from" their city.

Wakamusha 23:40, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Well since nobody seems to care enough to respond then I'll just go ahead and change it myself.

Wakamusha (talk) 03:28, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

His "Origin" should not be down as "Marin County" His origin is Brooklyn, New York! Could someone please change this? (86.21.90.165 (talk) 20:55, 21 March 2008 (UTC))
No, his BIRTHPLACE was New York (more specifically Harlem, not Brooklyn). It is listed as such on the article. -Wakamusha (talk) 01:53, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Citation 58 has a bad link

allhiphop.com bad link for Citation 58. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.162.251.115 (talk • contribs) 08:14, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Someone should format the references so they are all correct and the same. --andreasegde (talk) 10:21, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
I'll double check on the reflist. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 03:24, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Awards/Honors/Grammys

The awards sections is very short, the page does not mention a Grammy once. Could someone with the ability please find that information and add it? Look at this Kanye West page for gods sake: List of Kanye West awardsCosprings (talk) 22:12, 20 November 2007 (UTC)


I agree...how come this hasn't been added yet? He was nominated for a grammy twice IIRC. (once in 1995 and once in 1998 or 99) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.205.145.20 (talk) 07:58, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

GA review

  • also known by his stage names - change also to "better"
  • was an American artist renowned for his rapping and hip hop music, as well as his movie roles, poetry, and his social activism - Suggest rewording to reduce use of additive terms
  • 75,000,000 - why not simply 75 million? Same with 50
  • I'm going to merge them all into one here, there are heaps of links which are relating to common terms and should not be linked. Those that are listed more than once appear that many times in the article. These include, prison, Spain, robbery, robbery, shooting, police officer, acting, rapping (already mentioned), High School, rapping, music video, actor, actor, music video, shooting, prison, shooting, music video, hip-hop (already mentioned), British, music video
  • last name, only to change it three months[8] or a year later, following her marriage to Mutulu Shakur the ref in the middle of a sentence breaks the flow for the read, possible to move it to after to fullstop?
  • "127th Street Ensemble." double quotes go inside the full-stop, "famous" may also be considered POV
  • to Baltimore, Maryland,[12] After completing - Either the comma needs to be a fullstop or After should not be capitalized.
  • His mother's crack - crack doesn't sound very encyclopedic and consider adding a suitable wikilink
  • Consider merging the once sentence paragraph in November 1994 shooting, reference is also needed
  • Shakur immediately went back to song recording, "Song recording" doesn't sound very good, how about enter the recording studio or something else
  • Some more references will be required for the Life on Death Row Records for FA
  • First paragraph of September 1996 shooting needs references
  • [38][36] -> [36][38]
  • [43][42][38] - put in numerical order for all references like this
  • Acting career - In addition - not good to start a sentence with an additive term
  • why not merge the Honors section into legacy?
  • didn't commit - did not commit
  • The references need to be formatted as some are URL's, all web references need a title, publisher (the website) access date (use today), and author or date if applicable. Reference 18 currently does this correctly you may want to use the template:cite web
  • There are references in the external links section for some reason?

Anyway if you disagree with anything brought up feel free to mention and i have this page watchlisted so just respond here once you have dealt with what you think are suitable fixes. M3tal H3ad (talk) 06:05, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

These things were pretty small and the article is pretty good. Too bad no one wants to make the appropriate changes. M3tal H3ad (talk) 02:59, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Hyperbole

The (unreferenced) statement under 'Legacy' that Tupac 'has one of the largest personal legacies of any music artist in the history of music', and to a lesser extent the following sentence, are a ridiculous bit of hype. Could someone with editing permissions remove it please? --LawrenceH (talk) 01:06, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Alive theories

I know I have been stupid bringing back this shit again, but yeah does anyone understand what 50 Cent exactly means on the song he did featuring 2pac, a line containing: "til' makaveli returns it's all eyes on me..:" What can it be referred to? --Flesh-n-Bone 21:06, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

2pac is dead, Orlando Anderson killed him. All the evidence shows that Orlando Anderson killed him. Biggie didn't kill him, neither did Suge, all that alive theory nonsense is bullshit. The bullets that shot Suge's BMW was from a .40 Glock, when the police raided Orlando Anderson's house, what did they find? That's right a .40 glock, despite Anderson denying that didn't own a .40 glock. The reason why the case hasn't been investigated deeper is because if the LVPD did, it would spark a gang war in L.A. Here's the lowdown on Pac's murder, you beat up a crip and get him angry, he's going to retaliate by killing you. Apparently Orlando Anderson didn't care that it was 2pac that he was going to kill. LockDog387 (talk) 11:12, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Guinness Book of World Records

Shouldn't this sentance state the year he was in the book. Since he may not be the current record holder? Also the citation for this is a magazine. Shouldn't the citation for this be the source. I think it was the Guinness book year 2004 according to research?

70.184.210.238 (talk) 14:56, 27 December 2007 (UTC)John70.184.210.238 (talk) 14:56, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

2Pac or Tupac

Hi, Why is "Tupac Shakur" the main article for rapper "2Pac"? The article "2Pac" is merely a redirect to "Tupac Shakur". It would seem logical to me if his artistname was used instead. Just as "Earl Simmons" would redirect to main article "DMX", and "Curtis Jackson" would redirect to article "50 Cent". I also see a lot of pages where his name is mixed with other artistnames, like "DMX, 50 Cent and Tupac". It would be the same as saying "Earl, Curtis and Tupac". I don't feel like changing all of those pages if there is a reason for his name to be used like this. I hope someone can answer my question, thanks in advance! W4rr10r (talk) 11:51, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Shouldn't this article be called "2Pac" not "Tupac Shakur" as 2Pac was his stage and the name he's most known by.--Shadyaftrmathgunit (talk) 20:50, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
I would guess it's because he is mostly credited "Tupac Shakur" rather than by any of his stage names; the movies he participated in credited him by his full name and, if I recall correctly, his guest appearances in A Different World and In Living Color listed him in the same fashion. Maybe someone could get a WP:SOURCE or something to check this out. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 04:49, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
The movies don't really count as 50 Cent is credited as "Curtis Jackson" in his movie apperences but his article is called 50 Cent, secondly on Interscope's website he is credited as "2 Pac" and "2Pac" in other place and on iTunes he's credited as "2Pac".--Shadyaftrmathgunit (talk) 18:21, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
Well, just do a search on the net for the most common name and see what you got. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 22:46, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Shady, what is the meaning of this? Seriously, we haven't even reached a agreement. Discuss, Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 05:58, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Why no mention of this?

I have uncovered a multitude of different interviews, articles, and books metioning how Tupac was almost foolishly obsessed with trying to look like a gangster, such as associating himself with the likes of Jimmy "Henchmen" Rosemond, Hatian Jack, and most famously, Suge Knight. And also, no metion of how many of his longtime friends said that he only became a thug after playing the role of "Bishop" in Juice?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.64.19.228 (talk) 18:52, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

The photo was not taken in the last moments of his life. He died several days after the shooting. Courtneycater (talk) 20:40, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

sorry for the repeat post....it's not showing up as a separate topic The "moments before" photo caption needs to be corrected. He died several days after the shooting. Thanks Courtneycater (talk) 20:42, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

true, it is not his "last moment alive." He did 6 days after. RIP —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.205.144.11 (talk) 22:05, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Discography

Hi. I'm Italian, so I could be wrong, but I have these albums that there aren't in the discography at the moment:

  • In His Own Words (1998)
  • You Never Heard (1999)
  • Still I Rise (Part 2) (2002)
  • 2Pac & Friends (2003)
  • Ready 2 Die (2005)
  • The Prophet Return (2005)

I don't know if these are "actual" Tupac's album, otherwise I'd have added them. I'll let you decide. :-) Greetings, Giovanni - 151.55.24.197 (talk) 17:37, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Removing unencyclopedic statement

"Many fans, critics, and industry insiders rank him as one of the greatest rappers ever."

I've removed this statement because it doesn't belong in an encyclopedia. I'm not saying that Tupac isn't considered one of the greatest rappers, but you shouldn't need to read an encyclopedia article to tell you that. We should just stick to factual statements, and not include hyperbolic statements that are worded in such a way, that they can be interpreted to mean many different things. (NovaTabula (talk) 17:06, 23 February 2008 (UTC))

"Some believe that Shakur has one of the largest personal legacies of any music artist in the history of music. The music and messages in his work pervaded the styles of the following generations and his music had great impact all over the nation and world."

Also, I've removed this statement from the legacy section. {NovaTabula (talk) 19:35, 23 February 2008 (UTC)}

Special Thanks

Well thanks to anyone that ended the fued between me and that other guy with his alias being "Black Haze" I mean I have heard nearly 60% of all Tupac songs and NONE of them ever said anything about "Black Haze" I mean any motherfucker just comes in here and write dat stuff, and these people believe it.... Well whatever thanks. Sorry if this made me sound like a Wiki n00b, LOL.

YaBoiKrakerz

References to "Cato" in his lyrics

Who is the "Cato" that Pac refers to in some of his songs? --BrokenSphereMsg me 18:18, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

He referes to Kato not "Cato". Kato Was a friend of 'pacs and Big Syke who was killed over his car. He also mention "Mental" alot reffring to the rapper Mental Ilness who was also murdered. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Soulja nyn3 (talk • contribs) 23:24, 18 March 2008 (UTC)