Talk:Tupac Shakur/Archive 3

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents 1 Sources for statements on Tupac's ashes 2 Slanted/biased text 3 Cleaned up some 4 Fair Use 5 Tupak Shakur audio uploads 6 tupac 7 "He was friends with..." 8 Peer review and/or FAC 9 This Sentence 10 Re: Huge Fan Essay 11 fac changes 12 Documentary 13 Acting Career 14 FAC nomination Withdrawn 15 Is this singles section complete?? 16 stinky? 17 Citation style 18 Citations 19 Wow 20 Album Sales! 21 Album sales, charts, awords etc 22 Categories 23 Intro 24 Audio 25 fbi declassifed record 26 Addition 27 Filmography section 28 "2006 MTV.Com Poll" 29 Name 30 The best rapper of all time!!! 31 Requested move 32 Something missing 33 Discography clarification 34 Feud 35 Possible merge of 2Pac-related companies 36 Tupac Early life 37 Stable Notice 38 Posthumously created albums 39 Add 2pac's birth name 40 Added Interesting 2Pac Facts 41 Removed Section 42 Featured 43 Seperate discography page 44 Lots O Links 45 Tupac is Alive According to a Geocities Page 46 "Underground" or Daz Dillinger can release officially? 47 Sexual Abuse Case Controversy 48 Tupac alive theories 49 Reverted Kevy2004's Additions 50 Top 10 Hits 51 daughter 52 Watch out, the circle's coming around again 53 The Don Killuminati: The 7 Day Theory

Sources for statements on Tupac's ashes

Please provide a reliable source for the statement that "the South African government and the country's former president, Nelson Mandela" will attend the planned spreading of Tupac's ashes in Soweto, or else do not include it on the page. If you read the reference (http://sohh.com/articles/article.php/9745) that is provided for that sentence, it mentions nothing about the South African government or Mandela. I deleted the statement once, and user License2Kill added it back (with an extra mention of Mandela that was not there previously). I have now deleted it a second time. Users need to read Wikipedia's policies on verifiability and and citing sources before adding anything to the article, or re-inserting deleted statements. Lionchow 10:38, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I changed it and added a new source License2Kill 22:15, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, you did add a new source, but maybe didn't read it closely enough. It says "That new reputation will be reinforced today when his remaining ashes are scattered at a sacred site in Soweto, during a ceremony attended by the country's former president, Nelson Mandela." The 'today' that it refers to is Sept 13 2006, and its a newspaper from Australia. It says nothing about Mandela being there on June 16 2007. The source still doesn't support your statement that Mandela will be there for the ceremony on that date. Keep looking for an actual reliable source, or else I'm just going to delete it again. If Mandela was going to be there it would probably be mentioned in a South African (rather than an Australian) source, don't you think? Here's some South African coverage of the supposedly planned event: http://www.capetimes.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=3428027 http://capeargus.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=49&fArticleId=3427833 http://www.thestar.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=3427783 http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=283305&area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__national/ Lionchow 08:32, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Now user License2Kill has changed the reference yet again (to: http://www.allhiphop.com/hiphopnews/?ID=6135). This reference still does not provide verification that Mandela will be there for the spreading of Tupac's ashes in 2007, or even that he was going to be there this year. Some users need to read their sources more closely. How about we replace that sentence with this one: "Family and friends plan to spread the remaining ashes in Soweto, South Africa, on June 16, 2007 which is Shakur's 36th birthday." That is a statement that is actually verifiable with the source License2Kill provided. Responses are appreciated. Lionchow 08:28, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Slanted/biased text

Does this come across as slanted to anyone else?

• On February 14, 1995, he was sentenced to four and a half years in prison for sexual assault; specifically, the conviction offense was for "sexual abuse (forcibly touching the buttocks)." There was no semen found at the scene. There was no liable evidence for Tupac to get sentenced. Many people think it was a "rape case" because the media put it all over the papers. One of the men who Tupac was with while in his hotel room once worked for the U.S. Government and was charged many times but never went to jail. This led to many Tupac fans to believe it was a set-up by the U.S. Government simply because Tupac would widely speak out against the Government.

---

It comes across as slanted to say its slanted :P

Cleaned up some

Cleaned up a lot more now. Added a lot of info to the Legal Troubles section that I ran across while adding sources as well. Here's my thoughts on what we need to do still. Please let me know if you agree/disagree or whatever:

• I think we still need to add a LOT of sources for some of this material (particularly in the Theories of the Crime sub-section). I added some sources for some of the material in other sections.
• Does anyone know how to add "fair use rationales" for the images? If someone could go ahead and do that... that'd be great...
• Audio: can anyone point out what the policies are concerning audio? Can audio be added (MP3 snippets, for instance)? If so, what are the restrictions and policies?

Can someone with more Wiki experience provide some feedback and let us all know if we're close to the point of re-submitting Pac for featured article status consideration? Thanks.SqlPac 04:01, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

At the Issue " Documentaries" you`ve forgotten Resurrection! :-) (Germany loves Tupac too!!! Du wirst nie vergessen werden!!!)

Fair Use

Added image-side fair use statements to all images in the article. The following text needs to be added (if not already) to each image on the article page:

<!-- FAIR USE of IMAGENAME.jpg: see image description page at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:IMAGENAME.jpg for rationale -->

For Fair Use Rationale I used this wording:

"This image, IMAGENAME.jpg, is being linked here; though the picture is subject to copyright I (SqlPac) feel it is covered by the U.S. fair use laws because:

1. it in no way infringes or assists in the illegal reproduction or distribution of the content of said CD/album;
2. it does not limit the copyright owner's rights to sell the CD/album in any way;
3. the image is of small size and inferior quality/resolution, so that attempts to make illegal print copies of the album artwork would be useless;
4. the image is being used strictly for informational and/or educational purposes;
5. it furthers the goals of providing verifiable information concerning the subject matter, in that it visibly demonstrates content which is referenced explicitly or implicitly within the text of the article itself."

Now we just need to get the article-side fair use tags in place, finish adding sources, maybe add some audio, and we should be good to go.

Let's get this baby done! SqlPac.

Follow-up - I added fair use tags for every image in the article. Now we just need more sources and some audio.SqlPac 00:24, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I added a boatload of sources to the article now. Y'all can hook up the audio and the remaining sources.SqlPac 01:39, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Tupak Shakur audio uploads

Disclaimer: IANAL, this is not legal advice.

You can use up to 10%, or up to 30 seconds, whichever is shorter. This is a guideline, not law.

Guidelines for Educational Uses of Music and Fair Use Guidelines For Educational Multimedia states "Up to 10%, but in no event more than 30 seconds", for educational purposes. UMUC also concurs, and provides fair use restrictions for other types media.

Of course, Wikipedia is not an "educational institution" by law. But according to Fair Use of Copyrighted Materials, Wikipedia could qualify for fair use under character (nonprofit) and nature (factual, published).

-- Znode 20:42, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I got every 2pac and Makaveli album. How do I make 30 second clips? How do I add interviews

License2Kill 04:12, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Anybody?

License2Kill 04:20, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

tupac

tupac is one of the geats rapper that very live,he will stay the gearter rapper

elegant. --andrew 01:11, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

i wouldn't have signed it either.SqlPac 03:18, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

did someone actually write that? Jtballer 08:40, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

"He was friends with..."

Removed the line "He was Friends with Garret Cooks of New Orleans, La. Both of their relatives were major leaders of the Black Panthers. They both would have been envolved in the Panther Party but decided to go else where."

Most likely he had more than one friend, possibly even more than one in New Orleans, La. Is there anything special about "Garret Cooks" that makes him noteworthy, other than being "da man sittin' next to da man sittin' next to da man?" Speculation about his potential "envolvement" with the Panthers probably needs some sort of source. I.e., did he state this in an interview? For all we know, if he hadn't become a rap superstar he might have gotten "envolved" in politics and become a "U.S. Sinator" or "Sittee Mayer".SqlPac 03:18, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Good grief, no. Strongly support your attempts to clean out unsourced questionable speculation. I can source that he wanted to get out of Death Row records; that he wanted to "stay home, cook, start a family"; I believe the still-not-located VIBE interview (and he did a total of four, I believe) has some vague political plans mentioned but as we have not located that it is currently a moot point. KillerChihuahua^?!? 13:09, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

There's a book called "Tupac Shakur" put out by Vibe, and produced by Quincey Jones that has a lot of reference material to his interviews with them and other articles and essays they've written about him in the past. I used it as a source in a couple of places.SqlPac

Peer review and/or FAC

Apart from the audio, do you think we're ready for a featured article review? SqlPac 02:33, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Nope. The "Huge fan essay" needs to be re-written, trimmed, and re-added (sorry I will do if I can find time or if you can do so please give it a shot, NOT forgetting lots of cites!); acting career needs to be expanded; still missing some sources; and then it may be ready for Wikipedia:Peer review. We may wish to take a step back and evaluate the layout overall prior to that. I'm currently on wikibreak and have extremely limited time, apologies for brevity. KillerChihuahua^?!? 14:49, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

No problem. I submitted it as a FAC before I got your feedback. Actually I fixed 90% of what the reviewers asked for. The only things that were left before I withdrew the nomination were to source out the Styles and Influences section and expand on the Legacy section with more 'scholarly' references. Unfortunately a brotha don't got that kind of cash to just go buyin' 4 - 5 scholarly reference books just for this. Heck, even the individual Harvard Conference essays are selling for mucho dinero. So I think I've gone about as far as I'm willing to with this at this point. Best of luck! SqlPac

This Sentence

In the intro: "His music features extensive use of metaphor and shows a high degree of lyrical structure." Is it just me, or does it not fit? It seems like it doesn't really mean anything in particular, but I just want to make sure I haven't been staring at it too long. Maybe mentioning his thug lifestyle in the intro would be a better lead-in to the article? Maybe I'm just tired? SqlPac 03:26, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Re: Huge Fan Essay

Regarding this reversion "12:02, 14 April 2006 KillerChihuahua (Rm huge Fan essay - source may be useful for briefer content addition)", sorry for adding "huge Fan essay". As mentioned previously, it's difficult to analyze artistic style in a NPOV manner. On the plus side, I see you kept the rest of my edits :) SqlPac

And I thought I'd apologised for not posting here, but I don't see that I did. Early senility... I hope my edit summary made clear that it was just too big and WP:PEACOCK? If not, sorry sorry! KillerChihuahua^?!? 20:39, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

No problem, really. You did see the :) at the end right? I just got a little carried away with some of it, typing late at night trying to describe the style and all. Thanks. SqlPac

fac changes

Made changes, including eliminating the gallery of album covers and other images within the article, per the Featured Article Candidate reviewer recommendations. Also combined paragraphs to make them longer per the reviewer comments.SqlPac 17:18, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Documentary

Documentary section needs to be merged into a respective section. There is no point to this section since its always going to be short and makes the page unbalanced which Im sure on nomination will be brought up. – Tutmøsis (Talk) 01:30, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Actually as of yesterday no one brought that up. Someone on here will either fix it, or they won't. At this point, I'm tired of dealing with it. SqlPac 20:35, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Acting Career

His acting career is barely mentioned. – Tutmøsis (Talk) 02:09, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

That and a bunch of other stuff that everyone keeps griping about, but nøbødy seems to be interested in fixing, right? SqlPac 20:33, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

FAC nomination Withdrawn

Under the circumstances I decided to withdraw my nomination of this article as a Featured Article Candidate. If someone else is interested in pursuing it, feel free to look at the reviewer feedback and make whatever changes you see fit. Best of luck! Outta here... SqlPac 20:40, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Is this singles section complete??

I am aware that it is hard to differentiate between underground remixes and official posthomous duets or collabs, but I found that table of singles still short and as I examined it in details it doesn't include cameos, which are obviously singles by both (or all) the artists participating. There is a single (and video) of 2Pac feat. Richie Rich - "Heavy In The Game" released while alive, and Yukmouth featuring 2Pac - Still Ballin' (video exists with archive footage of 2Pac, single release not sure). How about adding them? Lajbi 22:33, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Ok I saw that Notable Features section was eliminated during the nomination process. Anyway if someone feels that these above ones are notable, just give a positive answer here. Lajbi 22:43, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

The reviewers suggested separating out collaborative projects as a separate article. Just FYI.

By the way, I found an official government document that states Lesane Parrish Crooks is one of his "aliases". Not a birth certificate, however, but you should be able to cite it as a source for stating that Lesane Parrish Crooks is one of his aliases. SqlPac 22:42, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

stinky?

Is any of this factual?--71.225.248.138 00:38, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not rely on "facts". Under the requirements of Wikipedia, it is all "verifiable". Enjoy.

== 2pac's Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ready_2_Die

This is a bootleg and not an official release. I DEMAND this be taken off the discography.

If you want it removed so badly, why not remove it yourself with a comment explaining why? Not really sure what jurisdiction you have to "DEMAND" anything. --andrew 04:38, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Citation style

First, the lead should be expanded, and two, the text should also be converted to the <ref> system (see WP:FOOTNOTEs) Chubdub 20:52, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

The external link references need to be organized according to {{Cite web}} Chubdub 12:28, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Why not show everyone just how it's done and fix it Chub? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.125.149.243 (talk • contribs)

Ah, my apologies. I'll put it on my list of things to do sometime tonight or tomorrow. Jude (talk,contribs,email) 12:37, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

For the last time, the citation of web pages must be formmatted accordingly:

{{cite web|last= |first= |authorlink= |coauthors= | date= |url= |title= |format= |work= |pages= |publisher= | language= |accessdate= |accessyear= }}

Now will you please stop deleting the clean up tag Chubdub 18:23, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

No, that is a style, not the only style. "Must" is completely incorrect. And thank you for finally actually posting on the talk page what your objection was/is.

Meanwhile, please feel free to {{sofixit}} as you seem to be the one who has heartburn over this. KillerChihuahua^?!? 01:16, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Not having your resources cited in the proper format (oops, my mistake, "a" proper format) is often a reason for objections when it comes to Featured Articles nominations. Hip Hop is severely under-represented in Wikipedia, and I would like to see this article become a featured article just as any body else. That is the goal for this article if I'm not mistakened. Is it? Chubdub 19:41, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Citations

I added stuff that needs citations, but I do not understand how to add them. Can someone explain it to me.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by License2Kill (talk • contribs) .

Anybody? License2Kill 20:12, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Wow

Looks like folks have gone back to adding paragraphs and paragraphs about "incidentals" like the female that accused him of rape. Sure, the fact that he claimed she gave him oral sex on the dance floor makes good reading, but it doesn't really add much substance. Fact of the matter is she accused him of rape, they went to trial, he was convicted of "forcibly touching her buttocks", for which he received a disproportionate prison sentence. Anyway, if someone wants to finish up the Shakur Timeline at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupac_Shakur_Timeline, please feel free. I'm sure someone would find it useful to add the date that the female in question allegedly performed oral sex on Tupac.

The post-mortem events still need to be added, and possibly some text putting the events in context. I'm through with it. Thanks.

Album Sales!

is there any proof he has sold 73million Bobo6balde66 19:42, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, among the many sources are Guiness World Book Of Records. He has sold 73 million albums worldwide. The album sales do need to be updated. The RIAA rarely updated album sales. License2Kill 20:10, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

isn't eminem's worldwide album sales around the same amount?

No, about 20 million less. License2Kill 02:41, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

eminem is the second-highest sales of any rapper, however, and as he is still alive and able to record new work, he will very probably surpass Tupac's sales at some point. KillerChihuahua^?!? 18:06, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Not happening

License2Kill MizpacInapproriate EditsMizpac That is very ugly that anyone would make any reference to rape, Tupac Shakur may not have acted approriately in this situation and because of his celebrity he was caught in a situation that had little to do with his actions as much as it did with his celebrity. Really folks Tupac Shakur was innocent and he was convicted of being a young black celebrity. Mizpac07-22-06Mizpac

Eminem_discography if this is true, Eminem passed 20 million barrier just with one album. With respect, Deliogul 21:38, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Worldwide. Tupac has two albums that sold over 20 million worldwide and one that sold over 15 million License2Kill 21:41, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Album sales, charts, awords etc

Hi guys, I think, we should remove all new changes in dates, number of awards, position in charts, if these changes without references. I found few times contradictory information on this page compare with internet sources. So very hard to keep track of new changes. And new changes can be hardly discovered vandalizm. Your opinion? --MoonGod 17:24, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the puppy concurs - and I have noticed you reverting vandalism and correcting content on this article, it is much appreciated. KillerChihuahua^?!? 18:02, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

44.5 million sales in the U.S. alone? According to what? There really needs to be a citation on this because the RIAA [1] says he has only sold 36.5 million, and that's a figure that is up-to-date as of May 2006. 24.13.187.147 01:19, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

You can't go by the RIAA. They are way to slow and inaccurate. License2Kill 00:22, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Maybe the official album certifying body in the U.S. is slow. OK, fine. Regardless, I am curious to know where the 44.5 million (in the U.S.) figure came from. 24.13.187.147 23:41, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

hey I got an idea how about you just relax and listen to tupac it doesnt matter how many records he sold he is THE GREATEST rapper to ever put it down.

Hey, I got an idea. I think I'm going to change it to the official figure so people aren't misled.

Categories

Artist is too vague. Read the Artist article lately? Nothing but a set of links and "art is whatever someone says it is" nonsense.

He should be listed as a Rapper (because he was), Poet (because rap is Rhythmic Accompanied Poetry as grew from the Beat Poet influence in Harlem) and Actor because he was. Blainetologist 17:51, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

He was a published poet, and is not in American poets category. I will correct that. He is already in the American rapper category. He is not in the artist category or any sub-category. KillerChihuahua^?!? 17:58, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

He was indeed a published poet. One of my favorites is "The Rose that Grew From Concrete".

Intro

The phrase at the front of the article should read "was an American rapper, poet and actor." Blainetologist 18:00, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

The intro is the result of much work and discussion by many editors. I disagree that a change is needed or desirable: Shakur had talents in multiple areas, including song, dance, poetry, acting. Artist is appropriate. Rapper is linked in the last sentence of the first paragraph. KillerChihuahua^?!? 18:05, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Audio

I have every one of his albums, and I'm working on getting an OGG converter. Does anyone have any suggestions of what to include? Changes, California Love, Hail Mary, I Ain't Mad at Cha, or anything else? And what parts? Thanks, Mysekurity ^[m!] 19:01, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Wonderful! Not being a fan (sorry guys) I cannot say what is most important to include, except that it would be great if we have something from his most popular song ever, preferably the most "recognizable" bit (this is for those who have heard the darn thing but didn't realize it was Tupac) and something which shows a different "side" of him. In other words, if his most popular song is a driving, heavy thug sound, then something softer and more melodic would be good for contrast. Agree, disagree? KillerChihuahua^?!? 19:15, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, sounds good. What about Cali Love and Brenda's Got A Baby? I'm also surprised there's not more in here about The Rose That Grew From Concrete. I'll definitely have to add more. For up-tempo songs, possibly Same Song, Hit 'Em Up (it might be nice to include these in their own articles), How Do You Want It, N**** Nature, Panther Power, etc. For slower songs, perhaps Dear Mama, Ghetto Gospel (for a sample of newer music), One Day at a Time/Runnin' (for a mention of Eminem's involvement), Until the End of Time, plus the songs mentioned above. On a related note, does anyone know of a good OGG encoder? Ahh open-source... -Mysekurity ^[m!] 19:29, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Try Audacity. Lajbi ^{Holla @ me}Who's the boss? 20:11, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I got Audacity, but it wouldn't convert from WMA (yeah, I know....), so I downloaded the other reccomended converter, dBpowerAMP, and then converted Changes. I've now got it open in Audacity, but what part should I incude? I can also do any other song, should one ask. FA quality, here we come. -Mysekurity ^[m!] 21:30, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I have different convertors, and all albums in mp3, so it's not a problem to create "mix" if needed. --MoonGod 21:45, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, but it's not a problem. I can and have easily converted them to OGG at the same bitrate and frequency, so it should be fine. All I need to know is what song people suggest I use, and what part. I've uploaded a sample of Changes (Image:Tupac - Changes.ogg), but tell me if I should add anything more. Thanks, Mysekurity ^[m!] 01:16, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Warning: this is not a post about the article. You may not believe this.. but I've never heard any of Tupac's songs, to the best of my knowledge. KillerChihuahua^?!? 23:06, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Of course it is. It relates directly to the article, because we need samples to show what his music was like. As for you not hearing any of the songs, check out [[Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg], or e-mail me, and I'll send you something. -Mysekurity ^[m!] 01:59, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

It's very fun to watch, how man, who doesn't hear any Tupac songs, make contributions on this page ;) Respect

PS add Running, RU still down, Letter to ny unborn --MoonGod 20:33, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

We're only allowed to have a few samples of his work in order to qualify as fair use. I'd say pick two or three (if you don't like the ones I've uploaded), and I'll change 'em. Thanks, Mysekurity ^[m!] 14:22, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

How about some of his unreleased songs? He had a lot of songs lined up to be released after Don Killuminati that have a very different sound. I'm talking about easy-to-find stuff like the original Hell 4 A Hustler and the original Ghetto Star, as well as some very rare tracks like the original solo Last Ones Left. 69.116.150.174 22:13, 17 June 2006 (UTC) July 2006 (UTC) How come no-one mentioned changes, Thats one of my favorite pac songs because he so passionately called for change and because it has clips of phil collins singing the hook it makes it very approachable for people that were not familar with pac's true underlying message of his music and the man that he was Mizpac07-22-06Mizpac

fbi declassifed record

Is there any mention of material in FBI record on Tupac and his being an object of extortion by JDL. File is very interesting and is available in the FBI electronic reading room of the website under the link researchers. Mizpac 10:40, 22 July 2006 (UTC)SongsMizpac 10:40, 22 July 2006 (UTC) How come no-one mentioned changes, Thats one of my favorite pac songs because he so passionately called for change and because it has clips of phil collins singing the hook it makes it very approachable for people that were not familar with pac's true underlying message of his music and the man that he was Mizpac07-22-06Mizpac

Addition

Also, what is Tupac's relation with Assata Shakur if their is one. Some websites claim she is his aunt, she is his godmother, some say that she is just friends with his mother.

Filmography section

The Filmograhphy section needs to be placed in a Wikitable (see Nas filmography for an example)Chubdub 16:30, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

"2006 MTV.Com Poll"

This was not chosen by a poll. This is flase. The show, as you can see in the given citation, was NOT a poll, it was chosen by a group from MTV called the "hip-hop brain trust". In every instance a poll has shown that the people have decided that Tupac is the greatest rapper of all time, not Jay-Z

FAKE POLL MizpacRight ON I was not happy at all with MtV's fake results, me and my husband did not agree at all and felt they only choose J.z because he is still alive, MTV punked out Pac is in the peoples hearts and he was and is the greatest rapper of all time~~ 07-22-2006

Name

Sorry if this was already disccused, but I couldn't find it anywhere.

Why is this article titled "Tupac Shakur" instead of "2Pac"? Musicans on wikipedia typically go by there stage name (The Notorious B.I.G., Jay-Z, Nas, 50 Cent etc.) and I don't see why this would be an exception. --Ted87 18:26, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I came here to ask this same question. You don't see Eazy-E under "Eric Wright." Eminem doesn't redirect to "Marshall Mathers III." This article should be "2Pac," and Tupac Shakur should redirect to it.--Josh 09:20, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Ahh, but 2pac is so close to Tupac we might as well keep it at that, and add his surname for good measure. Maybe if Tupac was still relasing albums under the name 2pac, the article would be named accordingly. Biggie never released anything under "Christopher Wallace", nor was The Massacre released by "Curtis Jackson", suggesting that those aliases are more permanent. Phoenix2 22:38, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia articles need consistency though, and this may not be one of those times to brake that. Albums like "Loyal to the Game" are still being released under the name "2 Pac" and therfore his name should be credited as that. The fact that he is dead doesn't change anything because Eazy-E's article isn't titled "Eric Wright" and he isn't releasing any albums. Yet Notorious B.I.G. is dead and his last 2 albums (technically 3) were released under his stage name when he was dead and his article is titled as such. --Ted87 00:16, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

What I was trying to refer to was the similarity between the words "2pac" and "Tupac", making the change less subtle. There is quite the difference between "Eric" and "Eazy-E". Phoenix2 01:01, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Well look at Cam'ron's or André 3000's article. His real name is "Cameron" yet is article is still named "Cam'ron" and André 3000 first name is André. Anyways, I'm going to nominate is to be moved, so other people can give there opinion. Plus the article doesn't mention that he went by "2Pac" or even that it was his stage name. --Ted87 17:15, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Doesn't 2pac redirect here anyway? If so...who cares? Batman2005 14:27, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Potatoe and potatoe Mizpac Whack !!first of all what does it matter whether you use tupac or 2pac, they are both pronounced the same, haven't you every heard the saying a rose is a rose by any other name ? I think that is just riduculous, that you are pointing that out, LOL, would you prononuce tupac and 2pac the same ? Why on earth would anyone care Wow, I guess people these days will find anything to complain about. Mizpac 07-22-06

He WAS NOT JUST A RAPPER, his acting, poetry, and writings were all under Tupac Shakur.. 2Pac was just his name for some of his rap albums, keep it as is!

The discussion has been over for some time now License2Kill 22:41, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

What about his real name given when he was born Lesane Parish Crooks

That has been added since a valid source has now been found License2Kill 19:26, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

The best rapper of all time!!!

He was the best rapper that ever came out, no one can ever compare to him. He was very intelligent and every word of his touched you. The song pain and shorty wanna be a thug and dear mama to me was his best hits.

Brittany Crawford

This is not a place to discuss him. If you want to do that go to a forum such as Makaveli.com./forums.

This is a section to help contribute to the article. License2Kill 00:21, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

This article should at least mention that his stage name was/is 2Pac in the introduction paragraph. The only time it is found in the article is in the album titles. --Ted87 17:46, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Sure, you can edit that in as many times you like, as no one is opposing to its additon. You can even have Tupac Shakur, stage name 2pac, or something along those lines. Phoenix2 19:11, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

• Comment Ice Cube does his movies under the name Ice Cube. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by License2Kill (talk • contribs) 19:14, 4 June 2006 (UTC).

True. Is that an argument in support of this page move? Phoenix2 20:10, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

contribs) No, but he is saying that "Ice Cube does movies to so why would this be different". I think this page should stay where it is. License2Kill 01:28, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Which is what's happening, so everyone's happy. Phoenix2 04:14, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Something missing

There is just one omission on this page that confuses me, and that is he influenced so many other other rappers, including the second-best selling Eminem, yet that's not mentioned in the article...Why is that? Aspern 13:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Good point, we don't have an Infuences section nor an Artists influenced section. We'll need cites - I tried finding Influences a while back and came up empty, can anyone locate anything? KillerChihuahua^?!? 13:58, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I know Eminem, 50 Cent, Nas, and Ja Rule have all named him as an influence.

We need cites, though - do you know of any? KillerChihuahua^?!? 22:20, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I would like to point out that an album was released in the UK not too long ago with some new songs and some old ones but you guys don't have it on the albums it will most likely be released in north america in some time. the album is called ready 2 die 2pac. BiG Z 3 00:53, July 16 2006

That album is not official and should not be mentioned License2Kill 05:47, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Discography clarification

I don't know all the facts, but I was under the impression that Afeni Shakur sued Suge Knight/Death Row Records and now holds all the rights to her son's unreleased recordings. So whereas "Better Days" and "Loyal to the Game" carry new material and were released under the Interscope/Amaru label, "Nu-Mixx Klazzics", "2pac Live", and "Live at the House of Blues" were produced by Suge Knight and Death Row/Koch Records.

I guess I'm wondering if we should really include Suge Knight's albums in the discography section because they were never officially released or endorsed by Tupac's label.

[2]

I say take them out because they weren't official albums with new songs on them. License2Kill 19:54, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

• tupac's label was death row, they were remixes of death row era songs, remixed BY death row. they are most certainly part of tupac's catalog and discography, regardless of their (shitty) quality. --andrew 20:13, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Feud

So there is often debate as to whether there was actually an east-west coast feud in the first place. I would like to see sources cited for that statement in the opening paragraphs.67.41.97.182 13:05, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

11:58, 22 July 2006 (UTC)I don't know where u been if you need a source check vibe they had a whole article concerning the east/west war and I think pac may ave been on the cover luv

Possible merge of 2Pac-related companies

I know that these comments should be placed under their relevant articles but there are so many and so minor and hardly expandable that I was thinking they should be merged into one bigger article Makaveli branded products or some like this or even here, which could contain Non-Stop Productions, 24/7 Productions, Euphanasia, Makaveli Records and maybe it should have Makaveli Branded as its major part since it is the only existing company of "his" (as legal successor Afeni Shakur's interest), widely distributed in the US, has official sites and supported by famous entertainers participating in the National Tribute Campaighn for Tupac Shakur. So what do you think? Lajbi ^{Holla @ me}Who's the boss? 14:11, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

• Note: I Didn't tag the articles for merge because I wanted to discuss it here first.

They shouldn't be merged because they are all individual companies, but there could be a page where all of them are mentioned. It shouldn't be Makaveli Branded products, because they are not Makaveli Braned products. Maybe Tupac Shakur's Companies. License2Kill 20:59, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Tupac Early life

2pac's Mother and father were part of the black panthers according to napster.His mother was a collage professeur.nyyn

I reverted Licence2Kill edits to Tupac's early life. I read that Tupac wasn't very popular in school until he was in the Baltimore School for the Arts while his edit says that he was popular in school before that. Please WP:CITE. Thanks Jaranda ^{wat's sup} 02:33, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Your information is wrong, please refer to the book "Back In The Day", it is something all Tupac fans should read. I use to think the same until I read this book. He was actually one of the most popular because of his humor and superior rapping skills. He won many competitions and had a new girlfriend every week. License2Kill 03:12, 10 July 2006 (UTC).

I read that book, that was with one of his friends who grew up and went to school together in Baltimore School of Arts though, not the other one. Jaranda ^{wat's sup} 03:31, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

But he also speaks about his whole time in Baltimore. License2Kill 04:54, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

LAbyrinth also stated he was happy and well-liked in Baltimore. I have returned the book to the library, do I still need to find the cite? I have no idea of the page number. Also, Jaranda, where did you read he was not popular? KillerChihuahua^?!? 23:48, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Don't worry about adding it, it's already included. There is much about his early life in Baltimore in Back In The Day: My Life and Times With Tupac Shakur by Darrin Bassfield. License2Kill 03:05, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Stable Notice

I suggest that this article should be nominated for Wikipedia:Stable versions now. This article declined a bit since it's FAC, and is still being edited alot. Any thoughts? Thanks Jaranda ^{wat's sup} 23:06, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

You want to stabilize it now that it's declined? And if it's still being edited a lot, is it stable? JDoorjam Talk 23:41, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

• The stablilizing isn't declined yet, and while is not really stable now, it was stable a few months ago. Thanks Jaranda ^{wat's sup} 00:23, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I like to stay on top of this article to make sure it is okay, I seriously have OCD when it comes to Tupac. If I am writing somethign about Tupac it needs to be properly done in terms of punctuation and grammar. So how often do we update the stable version? License2Kill 04:18, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Oppose per WP:PROT and WP:5P. Cynical 13:07, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Posthumously created albums

Hello!

What does "Posthumously created" mean? Has 2Pac indeed recorded all this material before his death? --CutterX 13:54, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes. Its hard to record songs after death, as I'm sure you'll realize with a little reflection. KillerChihuahua^?!? 13:58, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

LOL License2Kill 17:39, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Try "posthumously assembled" or released or something to that affect. — ?? | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 17:00, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Using "Posthumously assembled" would imply that they were just put together after his death. "Posthumously created" is the best title because the producing was done after his death and he did not finish the albums before his death. License2Kill 17:16, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Which means Seven Day Theories is not "Posthumously assembled", since it was done before he died, am I correct? --Dooly00000 18:48, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Exactly, Tupac completely finished the whole album before he died. License2Kill 19:05, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Add 2pac's birth name

2pac was born Lesane Parish Crooks. I think his birth name should be included. ( He was later renamed Tupac Amaru after the great Inca chief ).

See the article:

His last name Shakur comes from the Arabic word thankful (to God). It has been rumored that Shakur's birth name was Lesane Parish Crooks[3], but this has been proven false.

?? | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 17:01, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Find a verifiable source, which has yet to happen, and we will include this. Currently, it is Urban legend. Further, his birth certificate and his official biography, written under his mother's oversight, does not mention Lesane Parish Crooks. KillerChihuahua^?!? 16:19, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Added Interesting 2Pac Facts

http://www.strictlyballin.net/index.php?id=facts has many things, but not all were facts. I did add ones I could find from other places and magazine to be true. Please let me know if anything you seem to find is unfindable. Thanks. --Dooly00000 18:38 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Removed Section

I removed a section with heavy and unsupported POV:

-- He is consistently ranked by fans, critics and industry insiders as the greatest rapper ever.^[1] --

The referenced article doesn't make any such claim such as this. This is not a 2pac fan site.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jgw (talk • contribs) 19:24, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

On the contrary, this is strongly supported in the Awards section. The additional reference was intended to try to stop the near-constant removal of the assertion by those, like you, who did not bother to read the article entirely and/or did not bother to read the talk page and most certainly did not bring this up on talk prior to removing it. KillerChihuahua^?!? 16:17, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to put it back for now, if KillerChihuahua reads this and says he wants to change it then that is fine and I will not change it back. If other people do remove the sentence entirely then I will just put it back and tell them to read the talk page. Really only two people have removed it. He is constantly ranked by fans, criticsm and industry insiders as the greatest ever. That is a fact. We are nto saying he is the greatest, just that he is constantly ranked as the greatest. License2Kill 18:00, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I'll go with either. It seems to me that "one of" modifying the statement might end the edit warring over this, and its certainly accurate, but let's see how your comment affects things first. Then if its still an issue, we could try the modifier, ok? KillerChihuahua^?!? 18:35, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your help once again License2Kill 18:41, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I think one of the greatest would be much better. I know it's a fact, but the greatest rapper of all time is simply not neutral despite those two citations of MTV and VIBE. The authority is not enough. Even in Elvis Presley's page, there's no claims like Elvis was the greatest in rock'n roll, even though it's a fact also. AQu01rius 21:16, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Because people rank The Beatles, Jimmy Hendrix and a bunch of other people at the top. "He is consistently ranked by fans, critics and industry insiders as the greatest rapper ever." is a true statement, his fans, critics, and industry insiders rank him as the greatest ever. Love it or hate it, there's no need to soften the statement. If it were to say "Tupac is the greatest ever" then that would be different, but it says he is "constantly ranked" as the best. License2Kill 01:16, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

The statement above me is simply not true. It is true that 2Pac is rated as the greatest ever sometimes, but not constantly, and certainly not enough to justify that he is "constantly ranked the best rapper ever." Nas, Jay-Z, Rakim, Notorious B.I.G., Eminem, Snoop Dogg, and GZA are all guys I've seen ranked as the greatest rapper ever more than once, above 2Pac. He is arguably the greatest rapper ever, this I agree with, but again, this isn't a fan site, and the wording is far too biased to stay. That being said, I AM a big 2Pac fan, although I don't think he's the greatest rapper ever. And I don't think an encyclopedic source would state something such as that.

No one is saying he is the greatest ever, just that many critics constantly rank Tupac as the greatest rapper ever. That is a true statement, because he is constantly placed at #1 in many of critic's rankings. Just because you don't downplay greatness doesn't make you biast License2Kill 03:23, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

(This is the same person as 2 comments ago) He is placed at #1 very much, yes, but so are tons of other rappers. When you have thousands and thousands of polls about the greatest emcee ever, and a hugely influential artist like 2Pac, he's bound to end up at the top quite regularly. That doesn't change the fact that the wording of it is biased, and shouldn't be in an encyclopedic text. I didn't edit it to what it currently is now but it works worlds better IMO.

I agree with the person above. But the main problem I have with this, is that whenever "He is widely considered as the best rapper ever" to another persons (specifically Notorious B.I.G. or Jay-Z) article, it is always considered POV and removed, whether it has citations or not. <---MartyMart

I'm sure no one would be confused, no one is saying "He is the greatest ever, hands down" just that "he has been ranked" as the greatest rapper you don't need to downplay greatness. License2Kill 18:45, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Being neutral isn't downplaying greatness at all. There was another one up when I left my last comment - Again, this is the person above MartyMart - in which it said Tupac was one of the most influential rappers ever. This is not debatable. Whether or not he is the greatest IS debatable, and not a neutral POV. I'll sign my stuff from here on out - DK

It is neutral. In the sentence "He has been ranked by many fans, critics, and industry insiders as the greatest rapper ever." You are only seeing "greatest rapper ever". Not the "He has been ranked by man fans, critics, and industry insiders". There have been Wikipedia admins that have agreed with me on this. No one is saying he is the greatest rapper ever, it just says he has been ranked as the greatest which is 100% fact License2Kill 06:19, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I read this part, and my conclusion is to simply add the "Greatest ever" to B.I.G. and Jay-Z. It is 100% fact that those two are also consistently ranked as the greatest ever, almost as much (if not more) the Tupac. BTW, I think Licence2Kill is a 2Pac fan.

The person above me must have been the person who added those cited statements to the Bigge and Jay-Z pages. I agree with this person. There are a number of reasons why. 1) The references that are in the "greatest rapper ever" line are both fan polls (The 2003 MTV's 22 Greatest MC's and the 2005 VIBE Magazine poll. Somehow, the fans also make up for "industry insiders and critics" on a countdown where Lil Kim and Dr. Dre, both of whom admittedly don't write all of their rhymes, made the Top 10. 2) Jay-Z was ranked #1 MC of all time by hip hop jounalists who work at MTV. Biggie was ranked #1 MC by both The Source and XXL, the twobest known hip hop magazines in the world. These were not polls, either. In conclusion, I feel that the only logical solution to this problem of the seemingly POV point of 2Pac being ranked the greatest, is to add them to both Biggie and Jay-Z's articles, with references. B.I.G., Tupac, and Jay-Z are widley considered the "Holy Trinity of Hip Hop", and it is a fact that the "GOAT" feeling is very common between these three. <----MartyMart

You don't seem to understand me. Whether Biggie or Jay-Z has been ranked as the greatest is irrelevant "He has been ranked by many fans, critics, and industry insiders as the greatest rapper ever." is a true statement.You could add a thousand sources on it (including the next issue of XXL). His is constantly ranked by industry insiders, fans, and critics as the greatest ever. It doesn't say "Tupac is the greatest hands down" it states that he has been ranked as the greatest rapper. That is a 100% true. People usually consider Nas as greater then Jay-Z, and if you looked at the forums for MTV when that ranking came out a lot of people were against it. License2Kill 23:33, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

So what if some people think Nas is better than Jay-Z, or if they wre opposed to Jay-Z being ranked #1 recently? People also feel B.I.G. is better than 2Pac. More to the point, there are also some people who disagree with 2Pac's rankings as the best as well. If it were so consensus, this section of the talk page wouldn't exist. But, I do agree with you, 2Pac has been consistently ranked as the best rapper ever, it is a fact. But it is also a fact for Jay-Z, and also a fact for Notorious B.I.G. The point im trying to make is that it is unfair to keep this line "He has been ranked by many fans, critics, and industry insiders as the greatest rapper ever." In 2Pac's article, but always deleting it in B.I.G's or Jay-Z's article. <----MartyMart

Now it seems like you understand. It doesn't matter, Jay-Z was still ranked #1. Tupac has also been ranked #1, thus making it a true statement. I have never deleted anything in the Jay-Z article and I tried working on the Notorious B.I.G.'s article but it is further from the Featured Article status then Tupac's. I want to be a part of making a featured article. Tupac has been ranked as the best, and other artist have as well. The statement is true so there is no need to change it License2Kill 04:00, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree. There is no need to remove the line. MartyMart, there is nothing wrong with you going to their discussion pages and making the case to have the same line added to the other rappers pages. You are fighting the right fight in the wrong place.The Real Stucco 09:51, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Featured

To me this article is perfect, how do we nominate it as a Featured Article? License2Kill 17:57, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured article review AQu01rius 21:19, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

It definatly would make a good candidate, but I don't think it will be nominated yet. It still needs a couple more sources before it is FA status. --Ted87 01:30, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Seperate discography page

For artists with lenghty discogrraphy, I support the separate discography page system. In this way, the page doesn't look WAY TOO crowded. AQu01rius 21:19, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

It's cool and looks good the way it is License2Kill 17:57, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I would support a seperate discography, he has a long discography and most artist have seperate pages for theres (some of which have half the amout of info as 2Pac has). --Ted87 00:52, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I strongly advocate the creation of a separate page for Tupac's discography, especially since the main page, Tupac Shakur, is more than 50 KB large. --King Bee 12:39, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Lots O Links

The following links were recently added:

• Official Myspace of Tupac Shakur
• Tupac Shakur's Official Clothing Line
• Official Myspace of Makaveli Branded
• Official Site of the 2Pac Legacy Tour
• Official Site of Tupac: Resurrection
• Strictly Ballin Fansite
• Tupac Nation Fansite
• Thug Life Army Fansite
• 2Pac Online Fansite
• Tupac HQ Fansite
• Thugz Network Fansite
• Tupac Fans Fansite
• Tupac Online Fansite
• 2Pac Planet Fansite

These are 8 Fan sites, one commercial clothing site, two MySpace sites, and the Tupac: Resurrection site, and we have an article on Tupac: Resurrection which is where that link is appropriate. If you think any of these are worthy of inclusion, please explain below. KillerChihuahua^?!? 19:12, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Also the Legacy Tour, which currently is a website, a MySpace site, one press release issued by the Tour, and zero further information. KillerChihuahua^?!? 19:14, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

• Keep Removed I edit conflected you while trying to rollback that, WP:NOT a external linkfarm. Jaranda ^{wat's sup} 19:22, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I think you should keep the official stuff (like the official Myspace) License2Kill 19:55, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

MySpace is inherently not official. KillerChihuahua^?!? 20:23, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

But that is his official Myspace License2Kill 01:58, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Tupac is Alive According to a Geocities Page

Legally Alive—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ponlork (talk • contribs) 13:44, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

No, Tupac is dead. This is a Geocities site with some bullshit "detective work" by amateurs who say that since they cannot find his death certificate, he is alive.Also just because the can't find his death certificate doesn't mean he is dead64.75.76.22 15:35, 29 August 2006 (UTC) Please do not use Geocities for anything on Wikipedia. They are not even remotely a reliable source. KillerChihuahua^?!? 14:45, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia in general is not a reliable source....

I think alive theories should be mentioned in the section "Theories of the crime" License2Kill 19:42, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

"Underground" or Daz Dillinger can release officially?

I found that Wiki has an entry for Makaveli & Dillinger Don't Go 2 Sleep, while I was looking for the same album on the net. Album (not mixtape or remix album) by the two in the title. Anyone cares visiting? I read in the April, 2005 issue XXL interview with Daz that he claims owning the most unreleased material by 2Pac. Shouldn't we include this one somewhere in the article? Worth to discuss. Lajbi ^{Holla @ me}Who's the boss? 13:10, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

No, it's bootlegged. —Preceding unsigned comment added by License2Kill (talk • contribs)

Sexual Abuse Case Controversy

This is to Killer Chihuaha but anyone can obviously put their 2 cents in:

I think the controversy of the sexual abuse case needs to be included.

Watch this for more info

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm8ehMfdKGk&search=Tupac%20-%20Thug%20Angel%20-%20Life%20Of%20An%20Outlaw

The judge found him guilty on that charge not because he believed he was guilty, but because of the escalating problems as his career progressed. Haitain Jack is proved to be a snitch by Tupac's attorney. And the speach Tupac gave to the judge. License2Kill 18:43, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Anyone got anything to say on this? License2Kill 03:38, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Anybody? License2Kill 17:22, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Not unless there is a reputable source, which youtube is not. Leave it out. KillerChihuahua^?!? 15:52, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Listen closely to the way the different members of this little film talk and act. The thugs talk like thugs and the intelligent people speak intelligently. More than likely, ALL of these people grew up around the same elements of society but only the willing achive the rest follow like sheep and knuckle under to the influence of the lowest element.--205.246.14.236 15:26, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Tupac alive theories

I think some more focus should be given to the "Tupac is alive" theory. I mean, obviously all of us with intelligence know that it's complete bull, but I still don't think it gets enough discription. Maybe, if you are skeptical of making it seem like a ligitiment possibility, you can phrase it so it seems like your informing on the claims to the theory rather then the theory itself; stuff like, instead of saying "[according to the theory], Tupak faked his own death for blah blah",you could say "Believers of the theory claim Tupak faked his own death for blah blah". Obviously, it doesn't warrant a long paragraph or something, but if it could be expanded to recieve the same discription as the other theories offered in that section. The way I see it, even the idiotic should be reported on: if that tripe Loose Change can get a page, surely this can get one or two more sentances? Lettuceclock: --Lettuceclock 20:49, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Could not disagree more strongly. Don't give this idiocy any more space than absolutely necessary; if that is no space, give it no space. There is no reason for Wikipedia to do more than state that there are those who believe he is alive, and that is false; doing that much may be more than appropriate. KillerChihuahua^?!? 15:51, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay, but can there at least be a reference to a website with a list of all the conspiracy theories. Some of them are preety convincing (Exact time of death to the minute in one of his songs, the anagram of one of his albums, that stuff was freaky) 203.161.90.126 03:18, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Regardless of whether it is a legit theory or not, it still deserves some mention because of how prominent it is. Regradless, I don't think more then a mention of it is neccessary. Seven Day Theory covers it well enough. --Ted87 17:00, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Reverted Kevy2004's Additions

I have reverted the additions of Kevy2004 because they numbers he put are wrong. License2Kill 18:34, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Top 10 Hits

The opening paragraph says "He has had 17 top ten singles in the United States" however there are only 4 in the discography section of the article. Since there is no source for the statement I think it should be removed unless we can find the other singles. --Ted87 01:33, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

It's a true statement that has been here for awhile. A lot of the numbers in the discography section are wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by License2Kill (talk • contribs)

What makes it a true statement? Just because the statement has been there for a while? Is there any proof of this? Because we either need a source that says he's had 17 top 10 hits, a source that actually shows it, or put a {{citation needed}} next to it. The most reilable source for singles chart posotions (billboard.com) says he's only had 4 (which I am a little skepetical of myself).--Ted87 01:44, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I can get different sources on each one, but not one that says thatLicense2Kill 01:10, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Likely is top ten hip-hop/rap singles, Tupac had few Top 10 regular singles overall. Jaranda ^{wat's sup} 20:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I think it was suppose to be 17 top 100 singles, because he currently has 18, which at the time it was written would have been 17. --Ted87 01:58, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Maybe just replace the sentence about the top ten hits with, "He is in the Guiness Book of World Records as the hip-hop artist with the most albums sold worldwide", thats a true statement and easy to source. -D-gen :P

daughter

since when does tupac have a daughter? i removed it, its incorrect. --andrew leahey 06:23, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Watch out, the circle's coming around again

Hmmm. Last time I was here the Featured-Article folks and other Wikipedia reviewers and editors required us to *REMOVE* 99.9% of the images from the article, including almost *ALL* album cover images even though we spent all that time properly sourcing and "FAIR USING" all of them. Now someone's put them all back in. Just wondering what's different now? Were all those Featured-Article folks, reviewers and editors basically WRONG? Or have they all changed their minds (all of the dozens of them) recently? Either way, it could have saved someone a lot of work either way... The amount of time wasted re-adding in previously removed stuff must be staggering.

It should be merged somewhere the album covers and discography to it's own subpage, but I agree this article has declined bad in quality. Jaranda ^{wat's sup} 02:26, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I noticed other artist have their discography on the page, so why would this article need a seperate page? I know there are other articles that take up a much larger capacity then this one. This article hasn't changed too much in awhile. License2Kill 03:26, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Because this page and his discography is huge. While some artists have there discography on the same page, artists who have had a lot done like, Snoop Dogg, Eminem, and others have seperate pages. --Ted87 19:57, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

The Don Killuminati: The 7 Day Theory

Pardon my ignorance, but if "The Don Killuminati: The 7 Day Theory" was released on November 5, 1996, doesn't that make it a posthumous release, as he died on September 13th 1996?

No, it was finished before his death. License2Kill 22:15, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Tupac was born Lesane Parish Crooks not Parish Lesane Crooks.....someone should probably fix that....Icetomyst 00:21, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

No, he was born Parish Lesane Crooks, read Tupac Shakur Legacy License2Kill 00:55, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

It says "Posthumously created studio albums", not "posthumous release". He created the enitre album before he died.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Ted87 (talk • contribs)

No it doesn't, it says "Posthumously released studio albums". Either fix that title, or move the album. Either way, it was released after he died, making it a posthumous album release. 62.25.109.195 10:50, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Well it use to say "Posthumously created studio albums". --Ted87 19:52, 15 September 2006 (UTC)