Talk:Tulu language

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[edit] Fight for a separate state????

I think this is an overstatement. I have never seen any organisation or any group of people doing this. Throughout my life atleast i have never seen any demonstration or media campaign or any article regarding the same in any newspaper. Kindly delete this reference from the article.--Crazysoul 11:34, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Well it has been an on-off movement . Never really took full steam but isnt a closed issue as such. There is an organization called Tulu Sena. --Deepak D'Souza (talk • contribs) 04:42, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Tulunada Sena was never involved in separatist movement. It is just a social service organisation (run by a reformed criminal) - --Crazysoul 05:51, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

There are no 'some organisations'. There is just one 'TRHS' and even that is a fringe group being run by non-entities with neither any visibility, clout nor support . As an aside, a "tulu rajya horata samithi"(interestingly even that is kannada) returns a grand total of less than a dozen ghits(most of them from non-RS sources) and even those are mirrors of each other. Certainly doesnt belong in this article.

And as one who has seen Tuluvas from close quarters, I can say that this is a absurd claim. Half a dozen 'freedom fighters' holding placards once every 20 years or so, do not a 'freedom movement' make. Infact, half the Kannada/Karnataka sanghas in many places in India, gulf etc., is full of Tuluvas. There might be Tulu sanghas or Bunt sanghas etc.. but never heard of a Tulunada Sangha! Tulu Sena? Boy... there's some 'sena' in every street corner in India. See WP:UNDUE and stop nitpicking over this issue. A movement for statehood that would be 'notable' would be something like the Telengana issue. This tulunad issue is non-starter and has approximately zero support from tuluvas themselves. Sarvagnya 09:58, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

What do you expect: an organization that exists in two districts will return a million hits??? It is not a freedom movement but a demand for a seperate state. Agreed that Tuluvas may join some locan Kannada groups . Does it necessarily mean that they do not support it. If that is the case then as a Konkani I should not associate with Marathis in Hyderabad becasue that will make me a Marathi??? Get real. --Deepak D'Souza (talk • contribs) 15:30, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

TRHS is a non-entity. Nobody has even heard of them except the half dozen guys who run it and their families. This movement for Tulu state is a non-starter and doesnt enjoy popular support. An example of a movement for statehood that is 'notable' for encyclopedic puproses would be something like the Telengana movement headed by the Telangana Rashtra Samithi or the Jharkand one by Jharkand Mukti Morcha. TRHS is neither a JMM/TRS nor is this TuluNadu issue something serious like Telengana or Jharkand. So, just hold your peace and do not disrupt wikipedia. Thanks. Sarvagnya 20:40, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reg notability

I have replied to your "disrupt wikipedia " thing on your talk page.

Regarding "Tulu rajya Horata Samti" being Kannada, lets see rajya and samiti are Sanskrit words not Kannada. Tulu itself is of Tulu origin. I am not sure about Horata whether it is also a Tulu word or a loanword. but let us assume it is a Kannada loan word into Tulu and not a Tulu WOrd itself. The at best the claim that TRHS name is in Kannada is at best 25% correct and at worst 100% incorrect.

It is not our business as Wikipedians to debate on the legetimacy of a demand but report it neutrally. As such it does not matter whether there are half a dozen protestors or thousands of rioters demanding something. If it bears relation to the topic it deserves to be there. An event need not be known to the entire world for it to deserve mention on Wikipedia. If that was the case then 99.99% of the content in WIkipedia doesnt deserve to be here. It just has to be relevant to the article.

Why is the mention of the movement notable in THIS article? becasue it is directly related to the language itself. IN Inda states where reorganised on the basis of languages. The demand for inclusion of Tulu in the list of National languages and the demand for stathood are interlinked . The acceptance/rejection of either demand will immediately affect the other.

There is a List of active autonomist and secessionist movements article and if you go through the list you will find that many of them are smaller than Tulunadu itslef , yet they are included in Wikipedia(One example: Rotuma with a meager population of just 3000) . So how does mentioning TuluNadu "not notable" or UNDUE for WIkipedia? --07:24, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

I really didnt want to discuss the legitimacy of sepratist movements but since you have mentioned Telengana twice it really got me thinking. actualy the comparision between Telangana and Tulunadu is interesting:

The criteria that had been used during the reorganization of states was linguistic boundaries. The only other crietria that has been used was ethnicity(in the case of Chattisgadh and Jharkhand).
Telengana is not lingusitically different from the rest of AP; only some differences in dialect.
Nor does it differ much ethnically, the only way it differes from the rest of AP in this sense is a slightly higher Muslim population percentagewise.
Tulunadu is both linguistically and etnically distinct from the rest of Karnataka. So it seems, logically, that Tulunadu has a stronger case for stathood than Telengana!--Deepak D'Souza (talk • contribs) 07:39, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

It does matter to wikipedia whether there are a dozen protesters or some thousand rioters. Tomorrow if I come up with a crazy protest of separating my district from Karnataka and wave few flags here and there, I can't add that into Wikipedia. That's exactly what WP:ORG says. No, "just relevant" is not the criteria to add issues. And again, what matters is how strong is the movement for separate state or in other words how many like minded people are there in that organization as opposed to what you are saying. The fact that Tuluva population is more than Rotuma doesn't really matter as that organization doesn't have more than 10 members. I'll narrate one incident from my personal experience. I saw 2-3 people making a speech at Mangalore bus stand when I had went there few years ago. They said at the end that once the rainy season ends, they'll gather millions of people in the organization and protest against the government. I never heard about the end of that rainy season after that. Nobody in the bus stand actually cared for their nugatory speech. I'm just telling this because the incident came to my mind now. And please, don't make your own logic regarding ethnicity and statehood. Not that anybody cares, but it looks like total misapplication. Gnanapiti 20:15, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Dear Mr. Deepak, From the manner you putforth the arguements, it seems that you are the proponent of tulu rajya horata samiti. Even if a referendum is taken in Dakshina Kannada & Udupi districts, people will overwhelmingly reject the idea of a separate state. Because people know that they are well off with Karnataka rather than being a separate state. If u keep making separate states for group of 20 to 25 lakh people. India will end up having more than 500 states. And how can you say that we are ethnically different from rest of Karnataka? This is really an absurd statement. --Crazysoul 09:21, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dravidian and Cthulhu

Er... OK, I feel bad about reverting, since 24.1.20.169 seemed to be making some good contributions, but they also:

Removed all references to "Dravidian", (without any explaination)
Removed all references to "Cthulhu", (a disambiguation)

I was also a little concerned about possible POV, in the added statement "Its proud speakers have fiercely preserved its original form". I don't know what it's all about, but it seems a cause for concern.

func(talk) 15:59, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] page move

I moved Tulu to Tulu language to conform to the naming conventions for languages.--Chris Johnson 04:47, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Tulu popularity over Kannada

I should say, Tulu is not fighting with Kannada in Dakshina Kannada or anywhere else. Kannada was never forced upon Tulu at any point of time. The relationship of Tulu and Kannada are such that Tulu has remained untainted in these regions with Kannada enjoying the second language status. In fact, the Kannada identity in Mumbai and some of the other places owes it to Tulu people who started associatitons and schools in those places. Probably, many of the present generation Tuluvas in Mumbai may not be conversant in Kannada. But I wonder how long they can keep Tulu alive in its pure form just they have done in the coastal regions of Karnataka. So I suppose 'Tulu is more popular than Kannada' is meaningless.

Is it true that the Tuluvas - well, at least a reasonable proportion of them feel that they should cede away from the rest of Karnataka as a separate state? If so, how strong is this movement? I know that many Tuluvas do want to separate from Karnataka, though. But their demand, despite their far superior numbers is not anywhere near being as strong as that of the Kodavas of Kodagu/Coorg.

Well, paradox of Karnataka more than linguistic minorities like Tuluvas, Konkanis and Kodavas it's Kannadigas who make the biggest noise about loosing their identity. Looks like Kannada is safer in the places where it's a minority.

I think the reason for that is that the Kannadigas are actually a kind of 'minor majority' in their own so-called state of Karnataka. Eg I know that Kerala has about 80% Malayalees, though at least 10% of the state possibily speaks Tamil and sizeable numbers of Tuluvas, Konkanis etc are also present. TN has over 80% Tamils despite a huge Telugu population, not to mention lots of Malayalees and others as well. In one of the 'Tulu liberation' sites/pages on the Net somebody mentioned that Karnataka has a less than 45% Kannada population; A 'Kodava liberation' page improved upon the figure to 35%. I am not sure if it is that low, but am quite sure that the figure would be safely below 70% anyway - part of the reason could be that it has obtained all the 'borderline' regions/districts like Tulunadu, Kodagu, and districts bordering TN, Maharashtra, Goa etc which should either be separate states or parts of the other states.

As a Tulu speaker, I find it difficult to imagine a separate Tulunadu (i.e. Tulu state). The region would then have to include Parashurama kshetre, which would encompass Kerala too which has a very large number of Tulu speakers. This is becuase the King of Kerala had invited Tulu Brahmins to be the head priests (archakas) of the innumerable temples in the region. For instance the Padmanabha Swamy temple in Trivandrum is run by Tulu Brahmins half the year and the other half by Namboodri Brahmins. On a side note the Kasaragod district is a Tulu Speaking Region and has been annexed by the Kerala govt. I do not know of any movements to reincorporate it into Karnataka.arjunb

Oh, you are really a 'Tulu speaker', aren't you? Anyway, pray explain to me how the Govt of Kerala 'annexed' Kasargod District, when *ALL* borders of states in India were drawn by the Govt of INDIA (and NOT Kerala); Also please enlighten me on how Kasargod is a 'Tulu-speaking region' when it has OVER 70% people speaking PURE MALAYALAM as their mother-tongue, and the remaining <30% TOGETHER consists of Tuluvas, Konkanis, Gujaratis, Marathis, Hindustanis and of course Kannadigas who are immigrants to the region ......... Seems like you Kannadigas are following a policy of usurping everything you touch, much like the Chinese are trying to ...... Oh sorry I forgot that you are a Tuluva ..........

[edit] To 66.156.30.109

Tulu is part of Dravidian language family. Perhaps, it branched earliest from Proto-South Dravidian-1, before Kannada and Tamil.

Manjunatha (19 Apr 2006) It is funny to note that just because in 19th century Britishers used kannada script to write tulu that tulu lost the script. And also it was a minor language in mysore kingdom they lost the script to kannada & while they make tall claim that it is such an old language. There are so many old kannada inscriptions available in that area that i wonder whether tulu ppl migrated from some where. But anyways i would prefer them to know as tulu kannadigas (rather than just tuluvas :)) as they ought to kannada as well while in karnataka.

Lets get one thing clear:"Britishers used kannada script to write tulu" Is that really possible? since when did the arrogant British start writing in Tulu? or any other regional language? The switchover to Kannada script, in my humble opinion, probable took place in the post Independence period when Kannada was being taught in schools as a primary language. Probably the same reason why Konkanis in Karnataka use Kannada script -Deepak D'Souza 11:17, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

The point that Tulu people may have migrated from elsewhere may be true, considering that Tuluvas once ruled over the Vijayanagar Empire in North Karnatka -Deepak D'Souza 11:17, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Retroflexes

The bit about the Hindu dialect and retroflexes is wrong - retroflex consonants are a characteristic feature of Dravidian languages and were almost certainly borrowed into Sanskrit. --Grammatical error 19:13, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] comparison

Would adding the Malayalam for comparison's sake to the list of selected phrases be justifiable? Also, the transliterations given there need to be checked and formalised by a Tulu speaker using a romanisation standard such as the National Library at Calcutta romanization.--Grammatical error 20:51, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What is Hindu dialect?

I think even people speaking common dialect are also Hindus.

Manjunatha (4 Jun 2006)

[edit] Tulu and Kannada

This discussion is opened for establishing the inter dependency of the two languages.When u see a sentence like "Oorad nanjaande paraak badkodu" ooru nanju para baduku odu - all these words are common to both languages and its been long tradition that udupi and tulu speakers have been bilingual in kannada than in malayalam. Notable tulu poets like Ratnakaravarni have embraced kannada. Yakshagana started in udupi is most played in kannada. Culture and customs of tuluvas and kannadigas doesn't show a vast difference. It should be noted that kannada is composite involving people of tuLu, konkaNi, kodava, havyaka, sanketi, bRuhaccaraNa languages. Hence they are all called kannadigas the word should not be misinterpreted. Its like HIndi which encompasses maithili,pahaadi,kadi boli etc. Hence I have reverted back the deleted sections.

I disagree, a language may be shared by multiple ethnic groups which live together but that does not necessarily conjoin those ethnic groups. That would be like saying that Kanadigas staying in Mumbai are Marathis. - Deepak D'Souza 11:24, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
I dont see how Konkani can have influenced Kannada given that Konkani si spoken in small pockets along the west coast.However the reverse is true, as the dialect spoken by Konkanis in Canara region show many Kannada words, as well as heavy accents (and lack of nasal tone) not found in Goa.

- Deepak D'Souza 11:24, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dialects and Scripts

"Tulu Brahmins are known to be staunchest and most orthodox of all Brahmins in India." Isn't this merely a speculative statement? Is there any basis, or references to this? I think the dialects section needs to be re-written with appropriate references.

Claims that tulu script is close to malayalam scripts need to be cited.

"Unicode is an organization which codes the Tulu in Unicode" ? If we use Kannada script to write Tulu, how is Tulu coded in Unicode?

statements such as "staunchest and most orthodox" are made by anonymous or new users who have no idea about how encyclopaedic content should be. Feel free to either rewrite such statements in NPOV style or remove them if they are nonsensical.

The acceptence of Tulu script into Unicode can only happen after 1)it is declared as the official script for a language and then 2)a government organization(such as Ministry of IT) parleys with the Unicode Consortium for inclusion of the script in the Unicode specification. To my knowledge neither is taking place.--Deepak D'Souza (talk • contribs) 06:44, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

OK Correction. It seems that there IS a proposal for inclusion of Tulu into Unicode [1], [2]. --Deepak D'Souza (talk • contribs) 06:49, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 16:20, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tulu equivalent

Tulu is one of ancient languages spoken.Here are some of the equivalent in Tulu language.

Tulu	Kannada	English
solmalu	namaskara	greetings
Yan	Nanu	I
Eer	Nivu	You
Balle	Banni	Come
Sahaya	Sahaya	Help
Malpule	Maadi	Do

I found the above in an orphan article. It appears to be original research with no sources or references. After a search I could find nothing to verify it. I moved it here in case someone wants to make it part of this article. I did find a link for common phrases which I placed in the External Links section.-----Adimovk5 (talk) 12:52, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tulu Films

A certain WP:UNDUE, this is an article about the language, not the films. Create another article Tulu films.--Redtigerxyz (talk) 14:04, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

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