Talk:Tudela, Navarre
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 |
This article is within the scope of the Basque WikiProject, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Basque people, Basque Country, Basque language, history and culture. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. |
 |
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Spain, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Spain on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please join the project. |
| ??? | This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale. |
| ??? | This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale. |
Tudela
It is all very well relying on old material from an encyclopedia, but it seems to be out of date - for example the writers weren't aware that Ibn Ezra may have been from Tudela. Similarly, according to the Spanish Wikipedia, Yehuda HaLevi was born in Tudela, whereas in the English article on him he was born in Toledo! --Alan 09:01, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
I have done a lot of tidying up - in my opinion this article was sub-standard. It still needs some work --Alan 10:15, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
The article could do with input from someone who knows about the history of Muslim Spain. --Alan 17:26, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Tudela = Toledo?
Rabbi Berel Wein said on at least two tapes that Tudela was just the Jewish vernacular of saying Toledo. Like Brisk is Brest-Litovsk, Telz is Telšiai, Dvisk is Daugavpils, etc... They Judaized the name of the cities so that they would not have to refer to the city by the same name that their gentile neighbors used. What does everyone think about this idea from Rabbi Wein? --רח"ק | Talk | Contribs 21:55, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
- I think he's full of it. Jews in Eastern Europe spoke their own language, so it was natural that they had their own names for towns, and these names were simplifications of the original. In Spain the Jews spoke the same language as their neighbours, so there'd be no reason for a separate name to have evolved, and in any case "Tudela" is not a simplification of "Toledo".
- But the most obvious proof that Wein is wrong – as he frequently is – is that Toledo and Tudela are both cities that existed then and still exist; given that fact, it would require strong proof that when Jews said "Tudela" they didn't mean the city with that name, but rather another city over 400 km away! Unless Wein offers such proof, I think it's more probable to say that he simply doesn't realise that they're separate cities.
- Zsero 23:17, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
- Gee that's very respectful of Rabbi Wein. --רח"ק | Talk | Contribs 15:04, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
- And your point is? Zsero 15:21, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
- I was being sarcastic. Please have respect for people who are greater than you are. רח"ק | Talk | Contribs 16:06, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
- Wein is a poser. 21:28, 11 August 2006 (UTC)—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zsero (talk • contribs) .
- You can't back yourself up because you know that's not true. I can't see why anyone would dislike Rabbi Wein. רח"ק | Talk | Contribs 04:54, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
- He may be a very nice person, but he's not half the historian he pretends to be, and I feel no need to respect his views, or to assume he wouldn't make a mistake. Zsero 21:14, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
- You can't back yourself up because you know that's not true. I can't see why anyone would dislike Rabbi Wein. רח"ק | Talk | Contribs 04:54, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
- Wein is a poser. 21:28, 11 August 2006 (UTC)—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zsero (talk • contribs) .
- I was being sarcastic. Please have respect for people who are greater than you are. רח"ק | Talk | Contribs 16:06, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
- And your point is? Zsero 15:21, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
- Gee that's very respectful of Rabbi Wein. --רח"ק | Talk | Contribs 15:04, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
- Why should I have any particular respect for his opinions? What is this, his class or something? He's neither a huge scholar nor a "gadol hador". He's just a guy who's read a lot, and has opinions. If he says something that makes sense to me, I'll accept it; if what he says seems to me improbable, then I won't. Zsero 07:52, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
Alberto-I was born in Pamplona, Spain, and have visited Murillo del Conde...a friend of mine workling on his thesis claimed that Murillo (which is my surname) used to be of jewist decendants..I have jewist features...anyone knows?--Ozcoidy 22:47, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
As a navarrese from a town very close to Tudela (not Toledo!!! that would be the same that misunderstand Modiim with Jenin) I don't understand why Tudela is under the Basque Project. Tudela is a city of muslim origin in a territory what never was Euskadi among other reasons because Euskadi never existed.
[edit] Tudela is more than jewish history (I suppose)
I think jewish history is, certainly, important in Tudela´s history. But I think it´s important to remark that Tudela was the main city from Navarre during the Sancho VII "the Strong" reign. It was also important during Banu Qasi´s domination, fact that aided to Pamplona´s reign (seed of Navarre´s kingom). It was important in spanish´s foudation, as it was one of the last citys to surrender castillian´s armys before his anex. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.219.37.209 (talk) 19:44, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
