Talk:Truck

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

WikiProject Trucks This article is within the scope of WikiProject Trucks,
a WikiProject which aims to improve all articles related to trucks.
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the assessment scale.
??? This article has not yet received an importance rating within truck articles.

This article has been rated for quality and/or importance but has no comments yet. If appropriate, please review the article and then leave comments here to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article and what work it will need.
Other languages WikiProject Echo has identified Truck as a foreign language featured article. You may be able to improve this article with information from the Italian language Wikipedia.

Contents

[edit] Curly Designs (Pinstriping)

Forgive the placement of this here but I can simply find no reference anywhere and I've not yet had the chance to ask a truck driver about it (I surely will when the opportunity arises). On many rigs one sees these strange (and I think personally ugly, but fascinating nonetheless) curly designs on most available panels. They are often seen on horse floats as well. I was wondering - does this artwork have a name or a tradition associated with it? Update - Ok now I know its called Pinstriping, but what I really want to know is this particular type of curly Pinstriping, where the lines get thicker and thinner and there are lots of 'chandelieresque' type shapes. 218.214.138.11 00:04, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Personally I don't know what You mean, but maybe it's not a common phenomenon in Northern Europe? You wouldn't accidently have a picture You could upload or link to in order to gain knowledge? G®iffen 17:15, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

In Brazil, it used to be very common to have such 'pinstriping' with messages at the tail end asking for God's help. But the modern powerful lorries don't seem to have it. 12.146.221.194 01:22, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Restructuring

Everything about trucks on wikipedia need a whole lotta restructuring. First, semi-trailer is more about highway heavy trucks than about semitrailers proper. Here's my understanding of the big world of trucks

  • Trucks are motor vehicles designed to haul freight. (we should probably add something to differenciate them from trains & from passenger cars, oh, and from buses too).
    • Most of them are designed to travel on public highways.
      • There are a lot of light trucks such as SUVs, Vans, Pickups, etc.
      • Heavy trucks, who are often tractors in a tractor-trailer combination.
      • medium trucks, mostly for urban use
    • Then, there are special-purpose trucks
      • Some are almost freight trucks, like garbage trucks or dump trucks.
      • Emergency trucks like fire engines
      • Off-road trucks such as huge mining trucks (but some highway trucks go off-road too, like construction trucks)
    • The technical aspects of trucks. Most of them are built in a very similar way: chassis, cab, engine, tandems, suspension. But others are quite outlandish (Huge mining trucks with diesel-electric transmissions)
    • Trucks in the grand scheme of things: their economic importance, their relation to containers, boats & trains, the people who drive them & their lives, etc.
    • Somewhere in there, we have to add a few things: semitrailers vs. full trailers & types of freight bodies (flatbed, platform, van, tank, etc.).. I don't know where. Also, trucks vary a lot from country to country, with regulations mostly. we have to explain that.

So that would be the grand structure of this article, with sub-articles when section get too long. Céçaquiéça 07:20, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I concur with this plan fsiler

Another thing that I think should be added is a better definition for British usage. The article says 'The British term is, however, only used for the medium and heavy types (see below), i.e. a van, a pickup or a SUV would never be regarded a "lorry"'

This creates the impression that an SUV (as it's not referred to as a lorry) would be called a truck. This is not the case. A van in the UK is a road vehicle with a roof and no side windows used to transport goods, or a closed railway wagon used to transport luggage, goods, or mail.

The word truck here will usually refer to a railway wagon for carrying freight, though it has come to describe any vehicle for moving goods. The specific names for the types of vehicles will usually be used rather than calling them trucks, though it's becoming more common for people to refer to lorries as trucks, due to Americanisation.

Someone else could probably do a better job than me at describing this (as I am long winded), but I think it would be a good idea for it to have its own section to deal with this, rather than the obscur reference it has.--Jcvamp 19:51, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Which jurisdiction ?

The following statement appears in the aricle:

Trucks have often had to pay higher tax rates, and have been subject to extensive regulation. Partly this is because they are bigger, heavier, and cause more wear and tear on roadways. This is one reason that UPS vehicles are called 'package cars', because that exempted them from certain tax-rates.

I've never heard the term 'package cars' used, ever. Even UPS calls it a truck in their advertising slogan. TheGuruTech 05:48, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
California used to assume that any vehicle with 'truck' in its name was a commercial vehicle, and they were plated and taxed accordingly, even if they were privately-owned household vehicles. This may have something to do with UPS calling their oldest vans 'package cars', but this certainly isn't modern usage in the USA. 66.116.29.7 18:30, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Rules are in place for tractor-trailer rigs, regulating how many hours a driver may be on the clock, and how much rest time/sleep time is necessary (11hrs on/10hrs off; 60hrs/7days; or 70hrs/8days). Many other rules apply. Violations of these laws are subject to large fines.

Notice that these hours are different in other jurisdictions. Always check up before you go.

Which jurisdication does this apply to? If you know could you please clarify the point. Arcturus 19:39, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Without knowing for sure, I think this is some american rule. I know rules in Denmark are quite different. Here 4,5 hrs driving must end in a break of 45 min, though some of the break can be split up in 1/4 + 1/2 hr or 3X1/4 hr.
A driver cannot drive for more than 48 hrs a week, and there's something about max per day, I THINK it's 9 hrs with normal time-off, but can be 11 hrs twice a week, if compensated by longer rest time. Not sure, ask an export driver. Minimum fines have just been adjustet from 500 danish Kroner to 3000 DKr, I think that's around 400 $, correct me if I'm wrong. G®iffen 11:38, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
Also see "Hours on the road" below
The rules described are the current rules for commercial drivers in the US. These rules affect all commercial vehicles over 26,000 pounds (some states use a lower weight limit.) Tractor-trailer rigs are just one type of commercial vehicle. UPS delivery vans are commercial vehicles.
The Federal Government sets Hours of Services rules for interstate commerce. The individual states can (and do) set their own Intrastate rules which sometimes conflict with the Federal rules. Alaska and Hawaii have much different regulations, for example. due to their size and remote location.
The Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration sets the rules nationwide FMCSA, these can currently be found here Part 395
Canada has similar but somewhat more liberal rules as the US. I found a PDF containing their regulations: Canadian Hours of Service

66.116.29.7 18:30, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] broken knees?

A European project revealed the fact that the average city driver would step from 3 to 7 tons with his clutch-foot every day, depending on truck model, and these results made many companies buy trucks with automatic transmission, with the primary (but often untold) reason that they couldn't afford to pay compensation to drivers getting broken knees from the work.

This doesn't make any sense at all. It's like saying that a power plant generated over a million volts last year. I vote for removal.Fsiler 23:59, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

It has been mentioned in several truck related papers and magazines and in several countries in Europe it's a legal matter in law sues (Spelled correct?) about "worn out" knees.
If You're out lifting iron to get better muscle power, what will be smarter? 10 times 500 Kg or 100 times 50 Kg? The total in both cases will be 5 tons... How would your body react to the different weights? Personally my knee hurts after 2-3 work days in a truck with manual transmission, because I have an old injury in my knee. For the same reasom I have a note in my contract saying I can only drive manual gear one day every week.
Besides the fact that it makes no sense scientifically, I don't think this is terribly relevant on a page about trucks. Why not just edit it to say that manual transmissions are becoming less common because of legal issues?Fsiler 23:59, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
Okay, maybe it's more relevant in an article about gear, clutch or transmission...
If it's just "because of legal issue", I thind sby would like to know WHICH legal issue, so it might be written in different words. Sorry, beyond my english skills to spell out a good sentence here... G®iffen 16:49, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
How about (feel free to edit) "The trend in Europe is that more new trucks are being bought with automatic transmissions. This may be due in part to lawsuits from drivers claiming that driving a manual transmission is hard on their knees." Fsiler 23:56, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
Quite good. It explains, and at the same time it gives a set-off if an expert should drop by, wanting to add specific details. I've contacted the local drivers union to see if they can find reports about this issue, eventually something to quote or add to wikisource or something G®iffen 11:01, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] History

I've got a possible conflict. The article credits Daimler 1898 with the first IC truck. I've seen Richard F. Stewart, using a 2hp Daimler motor, in Pocantico Hills, NY in 1895 credited, as well as with the first commercial truck sales, 1897. Can anybody clear this up? Also, the article omits mention of the first articulated (semi-trailer) truck, by Thorneycroft, & the first (or early) cabover, by Mack in the early 1900s (1905 Bulldog, sold to B.A.?) Trekphiler 06:38, 9 December 2005 (UTC)oz

[edit] Automatic or semi-automatic transmissions?

Are automatic or semi-automatic transmissions in europe?

I'm not quite sure I understand... Are you asking IF these are available in Europe?
In that case yes, both manual, semiauto and fullauto transmissions are available; we have different variations of all three kinds at my work. G®iffen 17:55, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

"The trend in Europe is that more new trucks are being bought with automatic or semi-automatic transmission. This may be due [...] to the fact that you can lower fuel consumption and improve the durability of the truck."

I can't say I've ever heard a claim that an automatic transmission is more economical than a manual (engine speed being equal)? Can anyone provide any evidence to support this claim? 60.242.154.34 12:26, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

From what I've heard, fullautos use more fuel, while most semiautos can be switched between power or ecomony. Fullautos are adjusted better and better though. G®iffen 15:40, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure some of you got the concept of auto and semi-auto transmissions correctly. Firstly most semi automatic transmissions are in fact manual boxes with automated gear changing and clutch control. All major nanufacturers produce ones today including options for converting existing manual transmissions to auto shift regime. Some of these have fully automated clutch control dispensing the need for a clutch pedal where some include clutch pedal which is only used during takeoff and stopping. Fully automatic transmissions do not use clutch instead utilising torque converter and seamless planetary gear ratios, primarily used in city buses , earthmoving machinery and perhaps some trucks namely in rubbish colection where frequent stop/start action is performed.Fuel consumption is actually improved with semi auto boxes due to the fact that most are electronically controled thus engine torque and gear ratios can be closely matched to driving enviroment. Stonufka 12:38, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Stonufka: Yes, that's what I mean. The semiautomatics I've worked with are Scania Opticruise gears. Here you have to use clutch for start and stop. Also you can choose the auto or manual shift as defined for this gera system meaning either is does all the work from when you release the clutch at start and untill you step it again at stop, or that you press the gear shifter to the side to gear up or down, and then you press the clutch. If you're too fast on that pedal, the machinery will take over, releasing the clutch slower. I haven't tried the newer generations, but the ones from 2000-2003 are still nicked "Opticrunch" at my work due to the annoying slow shifting procedure.
With full automatic gears, yes, you just put it into "Drive" position, release the hand brake and step it. G®iffen 12:56, 12 August 2007 (UTC)


I'm not familiar with Scania system but the other Swede (Volvo) got it perfect now with their I-shift 12 speed range of transmissions for FH/FM trucks. No clutch pedal, fully automated gearchanges or manual shifting via rocker switch on foldable gear lever which has R N A M positions ,incidentally same lever as on their fully automatic transmission Powertronic so the line is getting even more blurred. My only wish is that the car manufacturers start doing the same and yes I know Tiptronic has it all but it costs $$$$. Stonufka 12:17, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cab Section

[edit] Measurements

Is there any reason that the units of measurement in this section are imperial followed by SI? i.e. US laws or some such? Otherwise it reads quite strange to have the entire article preceding this section in SI units (and no imperial figures), only to switch to imperial. It also contradicts wiki guidelines, unless the source reference uses imperial as well (no source quoted here though). If not could someone please change this? Steevm 01:06, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hood/flat

I want to know why the american semis have bonnets for the engine and in UK they have a flush front. The haul weights are more in UK. And apparently, the long nosed front has more wind resistance. What is the benefit then.12.146.221.194 01:31, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

I've seen the statement here on Wiki that the hooded/bonneted trucks give better engine cooling than the cabovers, but I'm not sure how much effect it has. I'd rather trust the fasion factor and that (according to my information) the cab length on a hooded truck is not included in the permitted vehicle length in US, while on a cabover the entire bumper-to-bumper length is included. G®iffen 19:48, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trucking

Where is the article that describes the trucking industry? In comparison, consider the article book and the article printing. There are two separate articles.

OMG, you're right! An article on the trucking industry is entirely missing in the English Wikipedia. "Trucking" shouldn't redirect to Trucks. Somebody wants to start the article? Relrel (talk) 11:07, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Naming

Don't know where you come from, but I'm British and believe your usage of truck is entirely colloquial; only other usage has come from Americans, "dump truck" and "fork-lift truck". I think what you mean is train carriage' for train-car. A quick check on http://dictionary.cambridge.org/ seems to confirm my belief for British English. Also, if you aren't going to put " "Truck" (American English) or "Lorry" (British English) " I don't see why "lorry" is given special treatment; I refer you to the colour debacle. mrhappyhour 18th Oct 2006

[edit] Australian Naming

Just for the record we in Australia also use the word "truck", not "lorry". But like our British friends we say "Bonnet" for the front of the car that lifts up, and "Boot" for the luggage compartment at the back. Even if cars have rear mounted engines we say the engine is "in the Boot". 218.214.138.11 00:02, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Originally the term lorry was used in Australia[1]. By about the 1950s truck was used more than the term lorry, though in official use lorry survived a while longer. To an Australian ear lorry now sounds very English.Ozdaren 23:43, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Steam Lorry Naming

As we seem to be on a bit of a theme today, thought I'd elaborate on my earlier edit summary.

In the UK for definite, and (judging by the Google results) elsewhere too, the following names are used (see traction engine for terminology):

  • "steam wagon" (27500 Google hits) - this was the original name, I think, and tends to be used for the overtype examples, which show a traction engine ancestry
  • "steam lorry" (11800 hits) - tends to be used for undertype variants, since they are very similar to contemporary lorries, but happen to be steam-powered!
  • "steam waggon" (2440 hits) - a variant, but used by manufacturers (eg Sentinel Waggon Works)
  • "steam truck" (757 hits) - I'd not come across this before. Probably used by same people who use the term 'truck' instead of 'lorry'

EdJogg 01:26, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Scania info

"The Swedish truck maker Scania claims they stay away from the US-market because of this third party tradition. Scania wants to sell a highly integrated product with proven interoperability and quality."

Scania did indeed sell trucks here in the USA from the mid 80's to early 90's. They failed due to not being able to establish a dealer network or partnership. Their trucks were also very heavy compared to similar North American trucks which was another blow against them. Mack trucks did offer a Scania engine as a light weight low power alternative to the Maxidyne series in the R model around the late 70's early 80's. That statement is not entirely accurate should be deleted or edited.

Thaddeusw 01:24, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Alaskan Trucking

I used to drive a truck in Alaska, and in the winter it could get extremly dangerous. I would like to know if anyone else ever had the promblem of the suspension freezing completely while parked overnight. This made my truck incredibly unsafe. Please let me know if you has this problem. =]
Thankyou, kind regards,
Zesty Prospect 14:41, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Are you talking about air suspension? I can't imagine steel suspension freezing! Stonufka 12:47, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hours on the road

I'd like someone to make a clear list of how the driving time / break time / rest time rules are around the world.
The latest rules in Denmark (I assume those to be EU rules) say that a driving time is whenever the wheels are rolling or stopped for less than 3 minutes. Each 4hr30min of driving must end in (the rest of) a 45min break. This break can now be divided in 15+30 minutes. (no longer in 15+15+15!).
A driver can usually drive for 9 hrs a day. 2 days a week the driving time can be 10 hrs, but max 6 driving periods a week, going from monday 0:00 to sunday 24:00. Max 56 hrs in one week and max 90 hrs in a 2 week period.
The rest time must be 11 hrs a day, but three times a week the rest time can be shortened to 9 hrs. A long rest (11 hrs) can be divided in two rests, if one is minimum 3 hrs and the other minimum 9 hrs. If two or more drivers share the driving, each must have 9 hrs undivided rest time for each 30 hrs. The vehicle must be stopped in this period, if the driver(s) rest in the truck.
Each week the driver must have 45 hrs undivided rest. This weekly rest can be set to 24 hrs every second week, if it is compensated by making the daily rest longer over the following 3 weeks. The daily 11 hr rest can be stopped 2 times to get on or off ferry or train.
The driver must keep documentation (digital tacho card or tachograph discs) on the driving the later 15 calender days, and documentation older than that sholud be handed in to the company and kept for 2 years.
Still they say any fool can be a truck driver... :-) G®iffen 18:51, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

There is a old saying "Truck driver has one foot in jail and one in grave" I'd not comment that any fool can be a truck driver because its grossly unfair. The job is a nightmare and only dedicated persons can do it and do it well.The governments around the world seem to be only too wiling to blame truck drivers for all the ills of the transport industry while conveniently forgeting who the real culprits are. Stonufka 12:55, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Meaning of verb Trucking

As mentioned on Webster, trucking means barting, changing

It should be mentionned

[edit] Position of commercial links

In the South America part, three links - Renault, Troller and Matra, were followed by links to websites. Temporarily I invisibilized them, since I'm not sure it's the correct way to promote it. If that's the case, all manufacturers should have it in that list. G®iffen 21:25, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Environmental Effects

I reverted to a version without the para cited by http://www.aar.org/getFile.asp?File_id=466 whose source is biased anti-truck. Care is needed with such sections and references to show balance, otherwise we are in danger of synthesising Original Research. I think the whole section needs a careful look with regards to OR synthesis. While trucks patently do have environmental effects we must record them, not draw conclusions from them. Fiddle Faddle 20:26, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I see what you mean in regards to the American Railroad Association as a source, but the International Energy Agency is pretty authoritative. Do you think that quote could be let stand?Dickpenn 21:11, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
I think, if the section is reworked to ensure NPOV balance then even the biased source quote may be included. My concern was simply to ensure that no-one could criticise it as either pro or anti. I'm sure it was really "work in progress" that just saw "finished product" a little too early. Fiddle Faddle 21:19, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
BTW the area the worries me is "Synthesis" where we may accidentally create something unless we word it with care. Fiddle Faddle 21:23, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the detailed guidance - you're right, it was a case of Ready - Fire - Aim! I will do some more research and try to come up with something more NPOVDickpenn 23:20, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] floating ... can not be used on trucks which do not have a tachometer

I dispute the accuracy of this line. I've taken up the habit of double-clutching, because the clutch is easier to replace than everything else that floating wear & tears, but I am able to shift gracefully enough with no clutch, and do so by feel and sound. I was able to do so even before I had gotten used to the truck and gotten a good idea of the ranges for each gear. I can also float in my light pickup, which is a lot more touchy, without reading the tach. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Phaedrus420 (talk • contribs) 19:29, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Of course one can shift clutchlessly without reading a tachometer. Doesn't matter what size of vehicle, it's a matter of timing and knowledge of how it feels, plus a degree of empathy with the equipment. It's the "technically illegal" that interests me, though. Is it? And in which legislations? I don't drive trucks, so I can't justify being bold and removing the area you query. Instead I've added {{fact}} tags to it. Also, unless I've missed it, "floating" appears undefined. To work out whether it has a place in the article the casual reader needs to understand what it is. Fiddle Faddle 09:21, 15 October 2007 (UTC)


Unless its just a slang term for changing gears without the clutch , which had its origins perhaps in the lack of power assisted clutches fitted by North American truck manufacturers , where idea of pressing heavy clutch pedal on those trucks all day long is rather exhausting and slow so the man found the easy way out. If you've never driven such a vehicle I can tell you that by the fifth intersection in the city stop-start traffic stirring through 18 speed shifter you would have enough and the left leg the size of Mr Olympia body builder. To answer the question its not illegal whatever someone might mean by that. Stonufka (talk) 09:09, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Maybe the meaning of "technically illegal" is that the manufacturers kindly tell you to use the clutch, since it tears less on the mechanic systems? Just like a retarder brake should be turned off when not actively braking, but many drivers has the handle on all the time, forcing the retarder to brake every time the gas pedal is released.

[edit] Images

The Images of Kenworth and Peterbilt trucks near the bottom of the page are of low quality and should be removed. Asicmod (talk) 06:50, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Interest in creating a WikiProject about "Trucks/Lorries"

I'm no expert in trucks (I'll use this word intead of "Lorry" for the sake of simplicity) but I'm interested in military vehicles in general (trucks among them). I've noticed that there are WikiProjects for "Military Histoey" and "Automobiles", but could find none for "Trucks" (or "Lorries", "Vans" od "Wheeled Cargo Vehicles", or anything similar). Wouldn't it make sense to have a WikiProject specifically dedicated to these important automotive cargo vehicles? Just an idea. Regards, DPdH (talk) 06:21, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Quite probably, if you start it off, folks will join it and make it work. I have a little time I can devote to it, though not a huge amount. I was also surprised there wasn't one. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 09:35, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Size of image

Can some one reduce the size of this image?? Peter Horn 01:17, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


--Taken care of .... Stonufka (talk) 13:53, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Weight Restriction

I have two issues with the weight restriction statement made in the first section. First off, where is it the case that you need a special license to drive a truck weighing over 10000lbs? It's certainly not true in the US. Secondly, what unit system has 3.5 tons/tonnes equal to 10000 lbs? 3.5 short (standard/English) tons is 7000 lbs exactly, while 3.5 (metric) tonnes is just over 7700 lbs. -Athaler (talk) 02:32, 5 May 2008 (UTC)