Talk:Trolley Square shooting

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[edit] Sources

The Salt Lake Tribune sources will have to be switched to Deseret News sources when the Trib moves their stories to their non-free archives - unless the Trib keeps a special section outside of their archives. — Zaui (talk) 16:13, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

No, not really. We can cite to print, but I do prefer the News for that reason. Cool Hand Luke 16:17, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Ok, so the cite is to the physical paper, not the web version? If that's the case, should the 'Retrieved on' notation be removed? — Zaui (talk) 16:26, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Well, I normally use the "cite news" template, instead of "cite web", but if we actually got it online, we should use the accessdate parameter in either case. It's just a matter of taste to use one over the other, but it's perfectly legitimate to use news sources that are no longer online. If they drop off but are still invaluable sources, we'll just have to switch to cite news. To confirm older sources we can just use Newsworld or lexisnexis or some other database available in most libraries. Cool Hand Luke 16:39, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Injured and killed?

One of the injured is listed as 'Hendersons girlfriend' but I see no reference to anyone named Henderson . . is it supposed to be the off duty PO Hammond? 82.98.17.106 20:54, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

It was part of some vandalism committed by 24.16.181.225 with some ridiculousness about a Crip gang member stopping the shooting. I have restored it and added a better reference. 63.226.241.115 21:58, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
One of those killed was the girlfriend of a man who was not in the mall when the shooting occurred. They were going to pick out wedding rings, but she got there early and was killed. I do not know his name. Val42 20:02, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Officer Ken Hammond

Officer Ken Hammond is being nominated as an America's Most Wanted All Star. He needs your vote by clicking here. [1] --JAYMEDINC 16:13, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] CCW Prohibited

This mall has a policy prohibiting lawful Concealed Carry indoors. Casualties could have been MUCH lighter, if someone could have stopped the gunman sooner. (Even the cop, was breaking the rules!) (See: [2]) Anyhow, it probably should at least be noted... --SXT40 20:10, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

He was stopped withing six minutes of the first 911 call. Ken Hammond - the off-duty cop - acted immediately, engaging the shooter and preventing him from killing anyone else. I doubt that any civilian with a concealed weapon could have done any better. Lonsberry's speculation is just that, speculation, and not that noteworthy. — Zaui (talk) 22:10, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
But if we have verification that Trolley Square prohibits concealed carry permit holders to carry their guns into the mall, then that should be noted in this article. Val42 00:48, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
6 mins is a LONG time, when you're being shot at... Val42, I'll see what I can do. --SXT40 07:48, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Why is that notable? Anyone can walk in there with a gun unnoticed. And how could he have been stopped sooner? He bashed his way in there and started shooting immediately. Yeah, casualties could have been lighter if he would've been stopped sooner; if if if, could've could've could've; what does any of this have to do with anything? bob rulz 07:52, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Apparently, given that the perp chose to do so. However, Law-abiding citizens, with Concealed Carry Licenses, generally, choose to follow the laws of the land, and, the wishes of the property owner. I think it's a big deal, that the policies of the place that his horrid event transpired, could have caused greater casualties! RE: "I doubt that any civilian with a concealed weapon could have done any better.", you're right. because they are banned from there. --SXT40 05:14, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Here is a link that clearly shows Trolley Squares weapon policies http://johnrlott.tripod.com/uploaded_images/HPIM0240-724381.jpg 76.9.67.37 15:30, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed deletion

Wikipedia has many articles about shooting events, see the spree shooting category. This article doesn't read like a news report, I don't see why it should be deleted, unless there is a preference to include the details of a shooting in the article about the perpetrator of the shooting. If so, we should merge this article with Sulejman Talović and add a redirect here. I'll replace the deletion tag with a merge tag and we can see what others think. — Zaui (talk) 21:38, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

  • The fact that we have an entire category doesn't convince me that we should continue the mistake. I don't see anything in this story that makes this different from any other random crime.
    It would be nice if we lived in a world where crimes like this were so rare that they were truly notable but we don't and they aren't. These kinds of stories unfortunately occur in every major city.
    Merging the page with the biography of the shooter consolidates us from two newsworthy stories into one. Both of them are very good content. They just belong in our sister project, WikiNews. Rossami (talk) 21:56, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
  • I believe this article isn't a current news event. It is a permanent part of Utah history and deserves it's own article. --JAYMEDINC 15:33, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed merger

[edit] Oppose

  • I oppose this article merging with the shooters bio. They are two completely seperate things. --JAYMEDINC 02:04, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose — I also oppose the merge. Val42 04:41, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose there was a lot more to the shooting than the murderer himself. I'm removing the suggested merge template--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 13:11, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Support