Talk:Troll (Middle-earth)

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What cannibalistic habbits do they have? Mark Richards 23:17, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I would presume they at least eat eachother. That's one of the more important cannibalistic habbits. --Corvun 09:43, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I doubt it is said anywhere in Tolkien's literature that Trolls eat each others. Maybe I'm wrong, but I would like a reference. --Earendel 11:36, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 Mockery of Ents? 2 Types of Trolls 3 Fair use rationale for Image:Trollaragorn2.jpg 4 Fair use rationale for Image:Cave troll.jpg

[edit] Mockery of Ents?

If Tolkien said that his "Trolls" were made in mockery of the Ents, even though the text says very little on this topic, what could be concluded from that?

"Ent" is Middle-English, an alternate version of the word "Ettin", which derives from the Old English "Eotann", from the Norse "Yotunn". This being the case, the word "Ent" could basically be described as a Middle-English term for the Titan-like beings of Norse Myth, the "Yotunnar", or Jotuns. By the time Middle-English came round, the Giants of Norse Mythology had already (presumably) been somewhat demonized, and myths concerning Trolls changed from small, troublesome, humanoid creatures to massive, powerful, humanoid beasts. "Ent" in Middle-English was also used as a synonym for a giant or troll.

It seems that in actual folklore/myth, the trolls actually did at some late point become more-or-less mockeries of the "Ents" (Jotuns).

Meseems this was meant as a fairly obvious "in-joke" Tolkien placed to test the learnedness of his audience. At the very least, Tolkien must have known (likely to his own personal amusement) that his trolls being made in mockery of his ents mirrored trends in actual myth/folklore. I'd think it pretty unlikely that it was mere coincidence.

Has this angle been explored by any "Tolkien-experts"? Is there any popular opinion concerning this and the number of other possible "in-jokes"? --Corvun 09:41, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I am not knowledgeable in English etymology, but if what Corvun says about the word "Ent" is true (and I have no reason to disbelieve him), it's likely that Tolkien used the term intentionally for this purpose. You can find other "in-jokes" related to the language in Tolkien's work. Unfortunately, I don't remember precise references. I only know you can find some in Ardalambion. --Earendel 11:37, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

In early outlines for the LOTR there was supposed to be an encounter with an Ent (=Giant) after Lórien. Clearly at this point Tolkien had no idea yet of the Shepherd of the Trees: he had earlier used the term in the "Ettinmoors" north of Rivendell, where certainly there were no Elfs, but rather Trolls!

So yes, the in-joke certainly stands, as the professor was quite aware of the term and its applied meanings. -- Jordi·✆ 07:51, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

It was stated in the updated tolkien companion (and other sources) that trolls were bred from more benign and less intelligent beings, might thought being gorillas or something

[edit] Types of Trolls

References or quotations from Tolkien's literature would be highly appreciated (i.e., where each type of troll is mentionned). As far as I am concerned, I would like to know where the river trolls are mentioned. --Earendel 11:36, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I think the correct reading is "river-tolls". The river troll entry should be deleted. --Krunkers 1:25, 9 November 2006

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Trollaragorn2.jpg

Image:Trollaragorn2.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 02:29, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Cave troll.jpg

Image:Cave troll.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 21:31, 13 February 2008 (UTC)