Talk:Triple Crown Championship/Archive 1

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Booker T

I think you need to revise the date on which booker and test won the tag belts. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Surge79uwf (talk • contribs) .

Huh? It looks right. ^---SilentRAGE! 05:07, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Suggested merge

Object. The existing triple crown article is already long and cluttered. McPhail 17:14, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

However, the TNA Triple Crown is not as notable in and of itself: there has only been one winner, and it is unlikely that there will be any in the near future. There is simply not enough content to justify a separate article for TNA's Triple Crown. kelvSYC 17:25, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

The article as it stands is longer than the majority of articles on wrestlers, or professional wrestling slang. Moreover, you wish to merge the article based in part on your speculatory claim that "it is unlikely that there will be any in the near future". The TNA Triple Crown is notable because it is regularly acknowledged and mentioned by TNA. The WWE Triple Crown is rarely mentioned or acknowledged by WWE, so has little claim to notability. The existing Triple Crown Champion article is a mess, and merging more content into it will not improve matters. McPhail 18:08, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

What can we add to it? What we have in a separate page is simply a mere stub - I highly doubt that we can add any more actual non-cruft content in it. If there is no way a stub could be expanded, you merge it - standard Wikipedia policy. kelvSYC 21:52, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

The article is not a stub in its current form. It could also be further expanded by adding detailed descriptions of Styles's respective title wins, including who he defeated and where. McPhail 19:53, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

That sounds like cruft to me - it's needless repetitive info that can be found elsewhere - such as the article on Styles. kelvSYC 20:57, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Kurt Angle has won 5 of the 6 championships and yet he does not appear on this list? Whats the Deal With that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.77.69.61 (talk • contribs)

With the WWE Triple Crown, its only championships that come under the WWE Era, so during the invasion era, Kurt Angle and Edge won the WCW United States title, but it is only recognized in the WWE Triple Crown from when Eddie Guerrero won the title in 2003. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.101.75.110 (talk • contribs)

Actually, both Edge and Kurt Angle's title wins are recognised in the title's history by WWE, and it traces back into WCW. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.42.95.0 (talk • contribs)

TNA GRAND SLAM

I have removed the ric flair, dusty rhodes and ricky steamboat refrences from the bottom of this page under the potential champions list, because it says right above the chart in the same section of this page that only NWA champions in TNA count, where Flair, Rhodes and Steamboat have never held either the NWA tag or NWA world championships in Total Non-Stop Action —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.149.186.84 (talk • contribs)

ROH Triple Crown?

Should there be a section for this? No one has done it but it has been brought up in storylines on many ocassions, and there are three wrestlers (Joe, Punk, Aries) who are all one belt shy. Tromboneguy0186 08:00, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

There shouldn't be a section for it... if no one has achieved it, then it doesn't exist yet... Clint 06:15, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

U.S. Championship

When Kurt Angle and Edge won their titles, they were still under the WCW name. WCW was a different company from WWE (though WWE bought them out, they were still presented as a seperate outfit), and as long as the title was still recognised as a WCW title, it can't count as a WWE championship. On July 27, 2003, Eddie Guerrero became the first U.S. Champion under the WWE banner. Simple logic says that a WCW Championship does not count toward a WWE Triple Crown. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.188.117.5 (talk • contribs)

WWE recognises these reigns as part of their US Title's history, therefore they are reigns with a WWE belt, and do count towards the Triple Crown. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.42.67.205 (talk • contribs)

How can title reigns that occured in (and under the auspices of) WCW count toward a WWE triple crown? WWE picked up the U.S. title as part of the WCW purchase, and was never meant to be a WWE title. But when the Intercontinental Championship returned to Raw, The U.S. title was brought out of mothballs for Smackdown to balance things out. Only a title fought for in a WWE ring, officaly sanctioned by WWE, and under the WWE banner count in a WWE triple crown. To put it simply, unless the belt has a WWE logo on it, it doesn't count toward a wrestler's WWE record. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.12.116.132 (talk • contribs)

Yes, yes it does, because WWE recognises these records. The US Title is not passed off as a new belt, like the World Heavyweight Title. If you've held a current WWE title in the past, and WWE acknowledges that you have, it counts towards the Triple Crown. And by the way, Angle and Edge's title wins were fought for in a WWE ring, officaly sanctioned by WWE, and under the WWE banner. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.42.71.39 (talk • contribs)

Indeed. It's not only a matter of having recognized the records, look at the championship pages for relevant wrestlers, such as Chris Benoit. It states that he is simply a 4-time United States champion; he is not a "2-time WCW United States champion" and a "2-time WWE United States champion." On Edge's, it again simply says "United States championship." WCW is only mentioned to championships unrelated to current WWE-sanctioned belts; for example, Greg Helms has 3 cruiserweight titles, 1 in WCW and 2 in WWE. His title page simply says "3-time cruiserweight champion"

Oh, and people: start signing. Tromboneguy0186 15:39, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Why shouldn't the WCW US Title reigns counted as part of the requirements for a WWE Triple Crown? The WCW US Title is the same title as the WWE US Title. Did WWE say something against it? ^---SilentRAGE! 04:49, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

I totally agree. If you look at the WWE website and check the US Title history, WCW’s lineage is there in plain view as part of the WWE US Title history. Why would anyone discredit WCW??--Prince Patrick 18:14, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Its a WCW title just because it was defended in a WWE ring doesn't count for anything, as long as the WCW banner is still present it's a WCW title. Jackez 11:56, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Original research

The current article makes numerous dubious claims. In order to attain a minimum level of verifiability, sources must be provided that prove that, among other things, WCW and ECW recognised a triple crown champion, and WWE has revised the definition of the triple crown from the original WWF Championship, WWF Intercontinental Championship and WWF World Tag Team Championship definition. Statements are made such as "the WWE Triple Crown was expanded to include these new titles" - expanded by who? Did WWE make a statement to this extent? As it stands, this article appears to be largely fiction and extrapolation - logical extrapolation, I will grant, but extrapolation nonetheless. Please do not remove the tags until these claims have been satisfactorily addressed. McPhail 21:53, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

It wouldn't break my heart to see the slate wiped clean and a new attempt at an article made. It needs a lot of work. Tromboneguy0186 11:11, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

WWE European Championship

I was just wonder if the WWE European Championship counts as one of the Triple Crown Championship reigns.--Mannytime 22:42, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

The Euro title was considered a step below the IC title, so no. kelvSYC 01:32, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

How is the US title considered part of it then? I would think the European title would be no less important than the US, if not more important.72.78.226.57 21:48, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

The European Championship was considered part of the Grand Slam, and a third teir championship below the Intercontinental. Back in the WCW days the United States Championship was and still is considered an equal to the Intercontinental Title, and the WCW Television Championship was considered the equal of the European Championship. Jackez 12:00, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Note about current wrestlers

I suggest that when people make notes on who needs a certain title to achive the Triple Crown, that they only add people who are currently on the roster. I just removed the note on 2 Cold Scorpio for ECW, because he's not with the company. This article is big enough as it is, and it needs to be as clean and efficient as possible. SilentRage 22:09, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Agreed...the Euro title was the equivalent of WCW/NWA's TV Title...only less prestigious in my estimation! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.252.60.198 (talk • contribs)

Dang. I was about to add Goldust up there since I noticed he has an IC and World Tag Team title reign. Ah well. --Antoshi~! ^{T | C} 00:31, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Big Show

Should Big Show's World Championship Triple Crown be noted on this page at all? (WWE, WCW, and ECW World Titles) It seems like a fairly noteworthy event, even if his ECW win is in New ECW. --4.156.6.70 21:19, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Maybe it should be included under a World Heavyweight Championship Triple Crown Section. THe same with the Dudley Boyz and the World Tag Team Championship Triple Crown. John cena123 02:53, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

If we do, we should also include the Road Warriors for having the AWA, NWA and WWF tag titles. --TheTruthiness 06:11, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

So, is this gonna happen or are we gonna just leave it the way it is for now? John cena123 12:46, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Merge with the Grand Slam et al pages?

Should we perhaps merge all the Triple Crown/Grand Slam/Ultra Grand Slam type pages into one big one? I'd be willing to do it... Mlsq42 11:56, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

What exactly would qualify as an "Ultra Grand Slam?" but this should be separate because Grand Slams have only existed in the WWE. This refers to ALL promotions where a Triple Crown has been achieved. John cena123 14:55, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Dear Non-Registered Editor at 81.158.171.157

I've tried to post this at the talk page of your IP address before, but yours changes so I can't be sure you'll read it: to be a real "Triple Crown" champion they need to hold the primary, secondary and tag titles as mentioned on this talk page. Please also use the "preview" button to check your changes before submitting. Every time you edit you leave 50 edits in the history which makes it difficult to check. There is also the sandbox you can use to test your work before submitting it on the real page. You must also not leave visable notes about not reverting in the article because Wikipedia is an open source encyclopedia suitable for forking. To ease reusability, never allow the text of an article to assume that the reader is viewing it at Wikipedia, and try to avoid even assuming that the reader is viewing the article at a website.. --TheTruthiness 20:44, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Chris Jericho and Lance Storm

Chris Jericho and Lance Storm were never official Triple Crown Champions.

A WCW Triple Crown is the World, U.S., and Tag Team Titles. Period.

TV, Cruiserweight, and Hardcore Titles are minor titles and do not count. (Though a TV title added to a Triple Crown equals a Grand Slam).

Since there was never a WCW Triple Crown, I doubt you can decide what counts. TJ Spyke 19:32, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Definitions of Triple Crown and Grand Slam

In WWE a Triple Crown is:

WWE or World Championship.
Intercontiental or United States Championship.
WWE or World Tag Team Championships.

A WWE Grand Slam is:

Triple Crown + European Championship.

The Hardcore, Cruiserweight, Light Heavyweight, and Women's titles have never been part of any Triple Crown or Grand Slam.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Vlh (talk • contribs)

ECW Title part of Triple Crown

If someone wins the ECW World Title and has all previous qualifications can they be considered a triple crown or grand slam champion? --Fr3nZi3 15:46, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Triple Crown and Grand Slam are all within the same promotion. IE- if someone won the WCW World, WWE Intercontinental and ECW Tag Team titles they wouldn't be a triple crown champ. --TheTruthiness 22:54, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

But ECW is part of the WWE, its a brand, not an entirely different promotion --Fr3nZi3 17:08, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Clarification on RVD

RVD won his I-C title at Wrestlemania 18, prior to the brand extension.

Potential Champions.

When listing potential Triple Crown Champions, please limit it to wrestlers who are still active or at least semi-active.

Retired or deceased wreslers who are one title away shouldn't be listed because they have no shot at completeing the Triple Crown.

Yeah #Note_about_current_wrestlers ^---SilentRAGE! 21:25, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Then why has Rey Mysterio been removed, and also why is it they just say need a Intercontinental Championship someone needs to clean that section up Jackez 12:03 27 October 2006 (UTC)

No need for disclaimers

I have removed the disclaimers from the top of the page.

Since the Brand Extension titles are all Grand Slam eligible (with references to point it out), it goes without saying that they are Triple Crown eligible.

By it's very definition, a Grand Slam is a Triple Crown + European Championship.

Japanese promotions

I don't think the definition should include Japanese promotions since they operate under the weight-class scheme. By definition, Taiyo Kea in AJPW and Nobuhiko Takada in NJPW would qualify in their respective promotions:

Taiyo Kea: Triple Crown, Double Cup, AJPW World Junior (noted down on his article).
Mitsuharu Misawa: Triple Crown, Double Cup, NWA International Junior (predecessor to AJPW World Junior). Can no longer be a junior so I doubt he'd go for AJPW or GHC junior titles in the future.
Nobuhiko Takada: IWGP Heavy, IWGP Tag, IWGP Junior (would need to win the Junior Tag to be Grand Slam, but has retired from MMA and I doubt he would come back to wrestle full time and certainly not as a junior). -- Surge79uwf 01:49, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

And, in AJPW, winners of the Triple Crown and the Double Cup are known as 5-Crown Champions. Most TC holders are 5-Crown champions except Hashimoto and Suzuki. -- Surge79uwf 02:04, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

NWA Jim Crockett Promotions

On that count, I would also include NWA Jim Crockett Promotions as part of WCW

Dusty Rhodes: World (including in 1986 when the title was administered by JCP), US, TV, Tag Team
Rick Steamboat: World, US, TV, Tag Team
Ric Flair: World, US, TV (Mid-Atlantic), Tag Team -- Surge79uwf 01:53, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Sting

Sting held the WCW television title when it was called the NWA television title, but the titles are the exact same, just the NWA one was changed to WCW when Jim crockett promotions was bought. therefore i think sting should be include as grand slam in wcww=

WCW

The WCW part should be removed, I don't recall them ever saying there was a triple crown (or a grand slam). That means that whole section is orginal research. Since there was no WCW Triple Crown, the "requirements" were set up by the editors who added that section in. I will be a citation tag in to give people a day or two to find sources. TJ Spyke 19:35, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Chris Jericho

The title Jericho won on October 21, 2001 was the WCW World Heavyweight Championship, not the WWE's World Heavyweight Championship. I don't see why people add it in with the whole Lineage controversy with the WCW title and the World Heavyweight Championship. John cena123 20:43, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

JBL

John 'Bradshaw' Layfeild is not listed as being a Triple Crown Winner when he has achieved the status

WWE Championship - June 27, 2004
World Tag Team Championship - May 25, 1999 (With Ron Simmons)
WWE United States Champion - April 2, 2006

JBL called himself a Grand Slam Champion on 8-4-06.

It seems as though that there a select few that feel that his statement is irrelevant.

Let me ask this question:

Micheal Cole (rightfully) referred to Kurt Angle as a Grand Slam winner at Royal Rumble '03.

JBL called himself one on 8-4-06.

Why is it that when JBL calls himself one, it doesn't count?

Nowhere does it say on wwe.com that Eddie Guerrero or Rob Van Dam is a Grand Slam winner, but they are (rightfully) accepted as such.

At least JBL made a statement on National TV, calling himself a Slam winner, giving some credence to the argument that the U.S. Championship should be allowed to be swapped out for the I-C Championship.

There are no sources to whether or not the United States Championship is included in the Grand Slam or the Triple Crown. Kurt Angle has won the IC title, that means, he is a Triple Crown (and a Grand Slam since he has won the European Championship). Same thing with Guerrero and RVD. There is no original research on Wikipedia. Please don't insert it again until sources for this claim are provided. semper fi — Moe 16:02, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Concept Change

Couldn't the definition of Triple Crown be re-interpreted so as to be somewhat more flexible. Instaed of WWE, IC and World Tag why not make it: World Title, Major Midcard Title and Tag Team Title.

Provided you respect the respective periods and company boundaries you could have:

For the WWE World: WWE World Heavyweight ECW World Title WCW Title right after the buy out.

Major Midcard: IC US US Title after the WCW buy out.

Tag Team: World Tag Team WWE Tag Team WCW Tag Team after the buy out.

For WCW: WCW World Title US Title WCW Tag Team Title.

For ECW: ECW World Title TV Title ECW Tag Team Title

For TNA: TNA World Title TNA Tag Team Title X-Div title.

And if you want to go so far as to give some level of consideration to the Hardcore, European and LHW/CW Title...you could coin the concept of a "Little Crown", for wrestlers who have won those three titles. As it stands, there have been 6 IIRC: Spike Dudley, Jeff Hardy, Matt Hardy, Christian, Hurricane Helms, Crash Holly.

...and you are basing this off what? Remember WP:NOR. WWE has a defined triple crown, as is the case with TNA. We go only by those facts and how they are defined. kelvSYC 20:41, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Big Show?

Is'nt big show a triple crown. he has a world tag, wwe championship and a united states. His name is currently not there,

No, the US title is not part of the Triple Crown status as it is not interchangable with the IC championship. Such orignal research will be removed. semper fi — Moe 01:23, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Doesnt that make the world heavyweight and WWE tag tEam(SD) not par of it then Randy Orton is not a triple crown winner

Adding to this, shouldn't the US Championship be considered on the same level as the IC title? The US Championship is one the same level on Smackdown as the IC titles is on RAW. And, you've got John Cena down as a potential Triple Crown Champion, stating that he only needs a tag title, but John never won the IC championship! He held the US Championship! It looks like you've already included US title reigns in the potential, so I move we add the US championship to the table (kudos to whoever did that, btw, that's clever). And, while we're at it, what makes us say we can't include the ECW World Heavyweight Championship from the ECW in WWE as a Triple Crown! That doesn't make sense! They're part of the WWE now; they should be included as part of the WWE Triple Crown. Anakinjmt 16:15, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

The problem is that no WWE source has stated this explicitly as such. Whereas we have actual confirmation of the WHC and the WWE Tag Team Championship as acceptable substitutes for the WWE Championship and the WTTC (through Michaels' bio which mentioned the WHC, as well as Angle's bio when he was still with WWE - Angle never held the WTTC). No such source exists for the US title or the ECW World Championship. JBL's self-proclaimed claim of a Grand Slam is simply that - self-proclaimed. No "outside source" (whatever that means in kayfabe) is able to independently verify this. The case for the ECW World Championship is moot anyways, as no new Crown or Slam winner could be named. There is also the further issue of these two championships as whether the championship consideration goes back to pre-reactivation days (does the WCW or invasion-era of the US title count and does the "old" ECW World Championship count). Until WWE gives an answer one way or another, we can't claim that the US title or the ECW World Championship counts as part of the Crown or Slam, even though logic would dictate otherwise. kelvSYC 21:25, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

But JBL refers himself as a wrestling God. He states he's a triple crown and a grand slam. meaning the US does count. Does'nt it?

JBL's self-proclaimed status means nothing. WP:NOR. semper fi — Moe 00:40, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

that's funny the triple crown was invented when someone proclaimed they were a triple crown

People, back in the WCW days the United States Championship was considered an equal level to the Intercontinental Championship, the WWE even states the it was re-activated to serve as a counterpart to RAW's Intercontinental Championship, get a dictionary look it up, counter-part means equal! You can't go around deleting things on the basis of your own personal beliefs the the United States Title is less equal, use the hard facts! And if this is the case, why are the WWE Tag Team Championships and World Heavyweight Championship considered on the same level? I suggest we vote on wether or not the United States Title is to be considered equal, it's the only way we'll ever resolve this. Jackez 12:10 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't think half of you people get it. NO ORIGINAL RESEARCH. End of story. What WWE says must be taken literally. Anything else is just original research! BUT, I do think this "Alternate Definition" signifier is a good thing, just too keep the noobs happy and what-not. ^---SilentRAGE! 04:55, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Vote

The following discussion is an archived debate of a vote below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of this !vote was that it can't be changed with a !vote decision. This is Wikipedia policy, and you can't change it like this, see WP:OR for the specific policy your trying to change.

Don't forget to sign

I vote that we have the united states champion as a second tier title

I vote that the Untied States title is considered a second tier title Jackez 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I vote to make the US Title considered equal to the IC Title AND the ECW Title equal to the WWE or World Heavyweight Title Anakinjmt 03:07, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I vote that the US Title be considered a second tier title (eligible for Triple Crown), and the ECW title be an acceptable substitute for the WWE title or WHC --TJ Sparks 09:51, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I vote the United States title be considered eligible for Triple Crown -- User:2_xtreame 14:59 30 November

So, it looks like as for the US title, everybody agrees it should be given the same level as the IC title. Now, what about the ECW World Championship being equal with the WWE or World Heavyweight Championship? Only two people have voted for that. Anakinjmt 01:06, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

I vote that the US be a 2nd Tier Title and the the ECW World Title be accepted as a World Championship on par with WWE/World Titles - Nebru 12:45 2 December

I vote that the U.S title is equal to the intercontinental title and tht the ECW world heavyweight title is same level as wwe championship --58.108.233.167 07:26, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I vote thats US and ECW are both eligible and who ever keeps deleting the U.S title as a second-tier title is stupid--Cooldandan 07:29, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I vote that the us title counts

I vote that the ECW World Title is eligible for World status and should count toward the Triple Crown. I also vote that the United States title count toward the Triple Crown. If the Smackdown World Title and the Smackdown Tag Team Titles count, then the United States Title counts as the second-tier title for Smackdown. It’s simple logic. Why would anyone even think of those titles not counting??--Prince Patrick 15:29, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this section.

What the heck?

WHY did someone take out the ECW World Title from the table? Everyone that has voted regarding the ECW World Title has agreed it should be made equal. Do NOT take it out when majority voted for it! Now I have to fix it, which just ticks me off. Talk about it here FIRST before taking it off the table. Thank you! Anakinjmt 16:50, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

It was taken off because it is original research, which is contrary to Wikipedia policy. Voting does not matter if it is on an OR issue like whether the ECW World Championship is considered part of the TC. kelvSYC 20:51, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I have removed the ECW title from this list again. Don't readd it unless you have sources verifying this. semper fi — Moe 21:30, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

The United States Championship should be included in the Triple Crown/Grand Slam list because it is the Brand Extension counterpart for the Intercontinental Championship, just as WWE Championship = World Championship and World Tag = WWE Tag.

I-C = U.S. when it was WWF vs WCW. I-C = U.S. now when comparing Raw to Smackdown.

PWI always listed the I-C/U.S. Champions as automatic number one contenders to their respective World Champions when they did their WWF and WCW rankings. It still holds true today when they do the Raw and Smackdown rankings.

The argument always was that "an outside source" other than JBL's claim was needed.

PWI considers them as equal, and they are an outside source, so there you go.

Now, the ECW World Championship is a different story because it has it's own Triple Crown. The only one this really affects is RVD, who should be given credit for an ECW Triple Crown.

Vlh 17:35, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Provide the external link, don't just say that they do. WWE also needs to confirm this considering it is thier Triple Crown. semper fi — Moe 22:48, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Pick up a copy of PWI and look at the rankings (near the back of the magazine).

Why not find an Internet source, if it's good enough to mention in a magazine, surely you will find a source on the Internet. semper fi — Moe 23:20, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Oh my freakin' gosh, it has been VOTED ON to have the ECW World Title and the US Title considered equal to the WWE/World Heavyweight Title and IC Title, respectively. And, I'm one of the people that believe JBL should be considered a Triple Crown Champion because he himself said so. Despite my thoughts on JBL, he is a Triple Crown Champion. So, I'm adding the US Title and ECW Title back in. Do NOT change it when the majority of people have voted for it. As for "no original research", you do realize that a majority of bios for wrestlers, plot summaries for video games and episodes of TV shows and movies are primarily original research? People watch what they see on TV and put it in here, without on online source. You can have the unverified tag if you want, but do NOT just take out titles from the table for the heck of it. Anakinjmt 16:14, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

JBL