Talk:Trillium grandiflorum

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Good article Trillium grandiflorum has been listed as one of the Natural sciences good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
An entry from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know? column on April 29, 2008.
April 29, 2008 Good article nominee Listed
Trillium grandiflorum is within the scope of WikiProject Plants, an attempt to better organize information in articles related to plants and botany. For more information, visit the project page.
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Contents

[edit] Ontario School Children

"for decades, Ontario schoolchildren were told that picking Trillums was illegal. This was never the case."

Besides the incorrect grammar, this contradicts Trillium: "...in many areas, e.g. British Columbia, Michigan, New York, Ontario, Oregon, and Washington, it is illegal to pick trilliums." No references in either case. So which one's right? - Shoryuken 10/09/05, 21:28 UTC

all I know is that when a schoolchild in ontario I was told that picking trillums was illigal. A student picked one, but failed to be arrested... pretty flimsey evidence, but that's the extent of my knowledge on this case. Pellaken 22:39, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
God damn, I always thought that picking trilliums was illegal. I'll see if it is. TostitosAreGross 14:12, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] State flower of Ohio?

The article says the large-flowered trillium is the state flower of Ohio, but the Ohio article says it's the scarlet carnation. There seems to be a disagreement here. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Schepler (talk • contribs) 23:19, 28 April 2007 (UTC).

It's the state wild flower (with that spelling in the statute). The list needs to account for the cultivated/wild split that other states already have. Circeus (talk) 04:53, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bracts vs. Leaves

Perhaps it is my perspective as a botanist in training, but I think it's important that that bract and leaf issue be clarified. It's not so much a matter of the leaves being considered bracts, but rather they are bracts, and this is what gives the trilliums' foliage whorls such a distinctive look. They are different in a number of ways other than morphology. Leaves and bracts are regulated by different genes, for example. Petals, sepals, carpels and stamens are all modified leaves, but it would clearly be a misnomer to refer to any of them as leaves. So despite them being superficially similar to leaves, I personally feel it's important that they are referred to as bracts as soon as they are first mentioned, especially in the description section. ^_^ DJLayton4 (talk) 04:08, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Obviously I'm not versed enough in botany to quite understand the scope of the distinction (alas, I am but an amateur naturalist), but I think the word "leaves" needs to appear somewhere because otherwise it will confuse any reader not distinctly familiar with the technicals of "bract". Otherwise, I'll happily defer to whatever copyediting you want to subject my version to. Circeus (talk) 04:52, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Oh I agree that we can and should refer to them as leaves, I just meant that it was important that we clarify the distinction from the first mention. Everything's looking great by the way. Your speed is uncanny! ;P DJLayton4 (talk) 04:58, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
It was a stub with no refs this morning, now it has 20+! DJLayton4 (talk) 05:02, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Copyediting notes

  • In the description, what does "they" refer to when it states "they persist after fruiting"? It was unclear to me when reading.
  • Did I mess up any of the refs in the description or are they still referring to the right bits of information?
  • In the ecology section, does the book referring to their preference for beech-maple forests say that this is in particular region or across the entire range. I believe many areas in the range don't have beech-maple forests.
  • I'm going to break up the "Interaction with humans" section. Let me know if these changes looks ok.

Above pointsDJLayton4 (talk) 02:42, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

  • "They" referred to the stamen, I obviously didn't watch closely as I twiddled the section.
  • Maples or beeches are the only trees mentioned, but they do specify "in the northern part of the range". I'll add that.
  • The split looks alright, although "cultivation and culture" makes for a very odd header to me, and I'm not too happy with the deer section having only one paragraph. Lamoureux expounds at length on the fact that deers will seek trilliums in general, and this species in particular in the spring (given that she is a keen conservatist, it's a bit unclear to me how mych spinning might be involved), so maybe I can add a paragraph there on deer impact on trilliums (rather than the reverse use of trillium to determine deer density).

Circeus (talk) 03:59, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

This sounds like a good idea to me. I used "cultivation and culture" just because other articles often have "cultivation" and "culture" sections, but since they would have been very short separately, I combined them. Feel free to change it back. ^-^ DJLayton4 (talk) 04:32, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Done adding/copyediting. It's just the header that looks weird, though I'd be quite challenged to find another formulation... Circeus (talk) 04:50, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
For comparison. See also this one. For comparison. See also this one.
For comparison. See also this one.

I can't help thinking there's something odd in the pink picture. The petals just seem too narrow and not overlapping enough, but maybe that's just the angle? The only other species that appear to produce distinctly pink flowers is T. pusillum, and the leaves definitely don't match (if it's a hybrid, which I couldn't tell, it's not T. grandiflorum either.). Circeus (talk) 18:33, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I am 95% sure its T. grandiflorum. First of all, T. pusillum is quite rare and is only found in areas south of Virginia, which is apparently nor where the Flickr user lives (though that's not to say he didn't visit, of course). Second, the leaves are, like you said, definitely indicative of T. grandiflorum and not T. pusillum. Third, I don't think petal width is a particularly good character for IDing them as it tends to vary, but the figure is 1.5–3 × 0.5–1.5 cm for T. pusillum and 4–7.5 × 2–4 cm for T. grandiflorum. It's hard to tell if they are 1.5 vs. 2 cm or 3 vs. 4 cm long, but to me the petals seem too big for T. pusillum. Given the the fact that the petal size almost overlaps between the two species, I think the leaves are the better character. Also, see the pink form here (T. pusillum is not in Connecticut). DJLayton4 (talk) 20:57, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
What it probably is is one senescing to the point where the petals are turning pink rather than a distinctly pink form. DJLayton4 (talk) 21:00, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Alright that makes sens.Circeus (talk) 20:32, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA

Wow! This is a very well written article, and is obviously GA status. It's both accessible to the educated layman but still professional. Images, prose, grammar, broadness, and citations are all present. I really have nothing to suggest fixing other than explaining Reid's paradox a bit more. Perhaps an article could be created? bibliomaniac15 Do I have your trust? 05:05, 29 April 2008 (UTC)