Talk:Triceratops

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Contents

[edit] OK, what else to smarten up this page?

Votes on getting the portrait of OC Marsh?

PS: Some of the drawings from the original 1907 monographs would be cool and they'd be way out of copyright.Cas Liber 06:45, 9 June 2006 (UTC)


The image shows horns nearly the length of the man's height. The text describes them as 1m long.

[edit] Relation?

Is the rhinoceros a descendant of triceratops?--70.189.248.92 00:46, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

No, Triceratops had no descendants. It was the last of the Ceratopsians, a group of dinosaurs. Dinosaurs were reptiles. The rhinoceros is related to tapir-like animals, and is a mammal, jut like you and me. :) --Firsfron of Ronchester 02:22, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

N-O! Dora Nichov 09:38, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I laughed... priceless. Pissedpat 20:54, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] To Do List

Probaly better listed here than on collaboration page as the other is time limited. Cas Liber 03:19, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Need bit on posture in paleobiology much discussion on this historically. Cas Liber 03:29, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Should we be removing bulleting from 'Depiction in popular media'?

[edit] Genders

The female Triceratops has a smaller neck frill than the male Triceratops. Punk18

Cite? ;) Dinoguy2 00:33, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Teeth

There is a mention of Triceratops teeth being among the most abundant fossils in the Late Cretaceous Period of Western North America, I have seen references on Ebay selling triceratops teeth a having been "shed". Has anyone who has studied this dinosaur at a more academic level then ebay (snicker) come across a reference to it shedding teeth once they were wore and growing them back? I have read that many dinosaurs had the ability like many of todays animals to grow back lost teeth, to shedding of worn teeth, has anyone heard of that?Pissedpat 20:54, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Posture

I started a small section on posture, and added a ref in the links section... does anyone have historical references or pictures to clarify? Sphenacodon 9:44, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

By the way, does any research give a hint if Triceratops dragged its tail behind, or kept it clear of the ground (and how high)? Many modern reconstructions of other dinosaur species show the latter, but perhaps T. was different? --62.143.122.76 22:25, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Triceratops is the next collaboration

(Subpage here). Diffs.

  • Status: Article status unknown.


Support:

  1. M&NCenarius 05:13, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
  2. ArthurWeasley 03:28, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
  3. Sphenacodon 07:25, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
  4. Cas Liber 14:17, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
  5. Dinoguy2 22:25, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Comments:

  • One of the most famous dinosaurs. M&NCenarius 05:13, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Lots of materials. General cleanup and references needed but hey, this is one of the public's favorite! ArthurWeasley 03:28, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Everyone likes Triceratops. Plus, there's lots of stuff out there on the animal. Sphenacodon 07:25, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
  • A really close decision but I think this is the most able to be brought up to FA standard currently. Cas Liber 14:17, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
  • I don't have any papers on it, but there are dozens, and it's one of the most well known dinosaurs, to science and to the public. I'll help out where I cam :) Dinoguy2 22:25, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] To-do list

Above are the comments for the second-time round nomination to hopefully get it up to FA candidacy..Now for a to-do list........Cas Liber 04:27, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

I dunno, but comparing it to Stegosaurus, I think the Paleobiology and Popular Culture sections are robust. The Discovery and History could use beefing up (someone who has Dodson's book could expand on the species and lineage hypotheses of the pre-1980s, and how that got translated to discussions of age, sexual dimorphism, and individual variation). Also, it would be nice to have a sentence or two on the various nomina dubia (what they're based on, formation and location, and that's about it). J. Spencer 17:50, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
The other thing is synthesising a description subheading straight after the intro; this was something I never did when initially expanding dino entries but other FACs have all had them and the reviewers seem to think them necessary.Cas Liber 06:07, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
There are a ton of lists in this article. Since the reviewers hate lists, those have got to be turned into paragraphs of lovely prose. Also, the pop culture section needs some serious pruning. Firsfron of Ronchester 06:53, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
I moved the culture section into a new article. No point mixing fiction trivia with actual information on the dinosaur (c.f. astronomical articles like Vega or Europa (moon)).--JyriL talk 22:36, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
OK, a Description seems to have been beneficial, if not essential, to get dino articles to FAs. I have rejigged and made one. Needs some work though Cas Liber 23:56, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
I've begun a Classification bit (like on the Stegosaurus page) which shoudl get an origins bit undeneath. Will do more later Cas Liber 07:07, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] references

the book "The Dinosaur Heresies" has some interesting facts and figures about Triceratop's running speed. this can be a good source. however, i do not have this book. i don't know how i can use this as a reference. ISBN is 0140100555 Author: Robert T. Bakker. --RebSkii 16:38, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I'm sure one of us has it Cas Liber 19:05, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Final to-do list pre FAC

OK guys, what now? It is looking alot better. Cas Liber 08:11, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

  • Peer Review (?)
  • rearrange images (?)
(images): how about a left-right-left-right (so-on and so forth) formating? i'm not a fan of right-only or left-only images format. --RebSkii 17:53, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
  • the automated review says no links in headings (nomina dubia subheading) but I feel this is only a subheading and helps explain as the link is nowhere else in the text. What say others? Cas Liber 21:36, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
If we explained it like that, we might be able to get away with it.
In general, the article seems a little short, but darned if I can find anything specifically wrong with it. It hits all the important topics. Maybe this is just the length it's supposed to be. J. Spencer 21:56, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
I think we should try to avoid technical terms like nomina dubia in headings. Maybe we could remove it from the heading, and include text immediately afterword to the effect of "the following species are considered nomina dubia ("dubious names"), and are based on remains that are too poor or incomplete to be distinguished from pre-existing Triceratops species." Especially in a featured article, a little blurb like that would help to readers understand some of the reasons these species are not valid. Dinoguy2 22:32, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Brilliant Cas Liber 22:41, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

In terms of lengthening, maybe adding something about some of the fragmentary teeth that were probably Triceratops found before 1889? Cas Liber 22:44, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Length of dino FAS as of Jan 18 2007:

  • Triceratops = 27.8 kB (3964 words) - comparison
  • Stegosaurus = 36.5 kB (5328 words)
  • Diplodocus = 30.5 kB (4474 words)
  • Tyrannosaurus = 57.0 kB (8268 words)
  • Velociraptor = 28.4 kB (4016 words)
  • Dinosaur = 67.3 kB (9682 words)
  • Albertosaurus = 21.2 kB (2996 words)
  • Psittacosaurus = 22.8 kB (3159 words)

Note the last 3 were granted FA status some time ago now. Would folks have wanted them longer now? Cas Liber 05:51, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't thnk we should pad it to get to a specified length. The one thing I'd like to see added is a bit on "what" it's thought to have been eating. J. Spencer 05:59, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
subheadings are also headings. i agree with rewording Nomina dubia with a less technical term. also, the caption in one of images says: Juvenile and adult skulls — the juvenile is about the size of an adult human head i only see a single skull in that particular image, does that mean the adult and the young's skull is the same (in size or everything) also, there is a dangling modifier in the statement that followed. Does that mean that the specie (the young ones) is only as small (or big) as a human head? i'll try to reword it if no one objects. --RebSkii 16:39, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
I think you may be missing something there--the juvenile skull is directly in front of the frill of the adult skull. It's a bit more brownish in color and has those stubby little horns. Dinoguy2 16:52, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
seen it. thanks. --RebSkii 18:22, 19 January 2007 (UTC)


OK - have added a bit on diet - the last bit of the function of frills and horns subheading bugs me but I can't visualise how to write it currently.Cas Liber 19:27, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Comment on references: Some of the references seem to be formatted slightly differently than others. For example, on the years:
^ Marsh, O.C. (1889b). Notice of gigantic horned Dinosauria from the Cretaceous. American Journal of Science 38:173-175.
^ Ostrom, J. H., and P. Wellnhofer. 1986. The Munich specimen of Triceratops with a revision of the genus. Zitteliana 14: 111 - 158.
I know some of these are books, some journals, but this shows both books and journals with the year following the author's name in parenthesis. Firsfron of Ronchester 23:49, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
OK, all years parenthesized and all vols bolded. Never know hwat to do with the page 'pp' thingies....Cas Liber 00:15, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. I would have done it myself, but wasn't exactly sure it really was right. I didn't want to mess anything up, ya know! :) Firsfron of Ronchester 00:31, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
So whaddya reckon- have a tilt now or can you see other things to fix......Cas Liber 00:33, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I've just finished fixing some italics/puntuation issues, but the article looks fine to me. Firsfron of Ronchester 00:42, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
On a second glance, the lead is still a little short. Does our current lead really summarize the entire rest of the article? It doesn't really look like it. Firsfron of Ronchester 00:45, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, I was starting to think that on a final look. Do you wanna have a play with it or shall I...(gotta make some lunch now)Cas Liber 00:47, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I'll work on it. Happy lunching! :) Firsfron of Ronchester 01:11, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Right. It's a bit longer now, with stuff that wasn't summarized now included. J. Spencer helped me refine it a bit. What do you think? Firsfron of Ronchester 02:54, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
OK - I just tweaked the last bit of the horn/frill function subsection. There is one isolated sentence hanging about sound amplification which I can't figure where to put - its just sort of hanging there. Otherwise I'm happy with the intro and the rest. Its comprehensive, easy to read, well laid out and (obviously) neutral....Cas Liber 05:08, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Right - had another look and was able to combine the sentence on noise with thermoregulation as a preamble to talking about display. I'm happy now - let's nominate Cas Liber 05:15, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] In popular media

This whole section is inadequate, covering only the last couple decades. In its current form, it's just better to remove the entire section, rather than claim that the section is representative of "the depiction of triceratops in popular media". — BRIAN0918 • 2007-03-20 13:40Z

I disagree. The section is just that: a section: a full article is elsewhere. There is no "claim" that the section is a comprehensive representation of Triceratops in popular culture, since the main article is on a separate page. Firsfron of Ronchester 17:18, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

For giggles, but also as a caveat, you may with to see the "unicorn" entry on Conservapedia. It may appear familiar. Palmd001 03:14, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lead sentence

Shouldn't it be "The Triceratops was a..." instead of just "Triceratops was a..." While perhaps, grammatically correct, the current version sounds awkward. Aaron Bowen 01:58, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Triceratops is a genus-level animal, just like Homo. It sounds a bit strange to me to say "The homo sapiens was..." Firsfron of Ronchester 02:02, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
It seems like "The ____" is used mainly with common names. For example, Rhinoceros is both a genus name and common name. Its article opens with "The rhinoceros", lower case. I agree that "The Rhinoceros" sounds and looks a little odd (it's kind of an archaic usage, I think), so I'd say the same applies for fossil genera. Dinoguy2 02:51, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
If this was an article about one Triceratops, then yes, that would make more sense. :) Sheep81 04:39, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Naming explanation

I'm surprised this has made featured article. The leading paragraph goes over the name twice straight after each other. Surely this is overkill and unecessary - once should be enough for anyone.

Perhaps it would read better as:

It was discovered in late 1893 by esteemed and world renowned paleontologist Robby Lewis. Bearing a large bony frill and three horns on its large four-legged body, and conjuring similarities with the modern rhinoceros, Triceratops is one of the most recognizable of all dinosaurs. Triceratops was named after the three horns on its head. The name literally means "three-horned face", and is derived from the Greek tri/τρι- meaning "three", ceras/κέρας meaning "horn", and -ops/ωψ meaning "face".[2]

[edit] Question

I have a question. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.218.156.193 (talk) 13:57, 21 March 2007 (UTC).

The answer is 42. Raul654 14:08, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

what if his question was "why did the dinosaurs die out" and that is clearly "Because you Touch ourself at night" but seriously, what be thy question.--DiogenesTheHobo 03:44, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] fix this

im not sure how to do it, but can someone remove the bob was here!!!!!!!! thing found under Description i can't find where it is int he page source, and it's annoying —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.151.13.8 (talk) 16:15, 21 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Deleting unscientific external link

Done very well, but one thing isn't of prime quality: the link called "Dinosaur skull picture" which leads to mantyweb.com. They plea for young earth creationism and pretend the triceratops (alongside other dinosaurs) was "alive sometime in the last 6000 years". As this article on triceratops is a scientific and not a religious one, I'll now stop buking and laughing simultaneuosly and simply delete this link. I dont have an english wikepedia account yet: [1] on the german wikipedia. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.65.172.73 (talk) 16:24, 21 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] "Ceratopsid" v "ceratopsian"?

E.g., in "one of the last ~s to appear before the X extinction event," the one in the summary has it one way, and the one later in the article has it the other way. Obviously article titles in references should be as they are in the original, but for the many mentions in this article, which is appropriate? I'm thinking ceratopsid, based on "ceratopsidae," and the fact that the more-visible summary bears that version of the word. 71.191.51.134 02:48, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Ceratopsian refers to the infraorder Ceratopsia, which includes more than just the Ceratopsidae, a family. Either work, because it was one of the last dinosaurs in either classification. We may want to standardize, though. Using ceratopsians is a bit more dramatic because it's a larger group. J. Spencer 04:23, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Clarification"

I changed the "It was one of the last dinosaurs to appear before the great.." to "This genus was one amongst the last dinosaurs to appear before the great..." because it confused me to no end - it appeared to me as if suddenly article is about a species, not a genus. If somebody thinks I'm in the wrong, please correct me. Thank you. --Branislav Jovanovic 12:02, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

The word species wasn't mentioned, so I'm not sure why there would be confusion at all. I'm also not sure "one amongst the dinosaurs" is grammatically correct. Firsfron of Ronchester 19:15, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
At the time of the FAC, I also voiced concerns about it switching from discussing species to genus. Looks like I wasn't entirely unjustified. Circeus 20:51, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
Concern was justified as it is unclear how many species are in the genus. However, the change as written by User:BraneJ was awkward so I simply added "genera" after "dinosaur" to clarify the sentence. Sheep81 04:37, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] image

Permission has been granted for this image by Karen Carr; famous wildlife and natural history artist. If you are interested. --Random Replicator 23:31, 13 September 2007 (UTC)