Talk:Trekschuit

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[edit] Merge proposal

The word trekschuit is the Dutch term for "barge" (specifically a towed barge). It is not as if this type of boat is only found in the Netherlands and there is no english equivalent. Therefore, as per WP:UE, the article should be renamed "barge", but since this article already exist, it should be merged to barge. -- P199 15:00, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for reading! I looked at barge and narrow boat, but I believe they cannot be merged. A trekschuit is purely a form of passenger transport that was the most popular form of passenger transportation in the Netherlands for more than 200 years, until the steam locomotive replaced them. They are not barges, since barges are primarily for the transportation of goods and cargo. The word in Dutch for barge is aak. The narrow boat has its own page, therefore I believe the work trekschuit may have its own page. Jane 17:21, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

And what about Horse-drawn boat: that is actually what "trekschuit" means. The trekschuit is simply the Dutch version of it. I think it should me merged whit that article. T Houdijk 22:35, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. Interesting proposal. I would propose going the other waý; merging hose-drawn boat with this one. Firstly for historic reasons, because narrow-boats (which is what horse-drawn refers to) were introduced in the 18th century, while trekschuiten were introduced in the first half of the 17th century and by the 18th century were quite widespread. Linnaeus, Voltaire, Jefferson, Adams, and Franklin all traveled by trekschuit when they traveled in the Netherlands. John Adams preferred it above coaches and said so in his letters. Secondly, because the number of canals and the number of trekschuiten was far more numerous in the Netherlands than anywhere else, because of the flat nature of the landscape and the ease of canal-building in that landscape, with a minimum of sluices and lock gates needed. Jane 07:33, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Maybe historically speaking it would make sense but not linguistically. No non-Dutch-speaking person would ever find this article because the word trekschuit is not used at all in English and will never be a loanword. Just because it may have originated in Holland and is far more common there, doesn't mean the article should have the Dutch name. See WP:UE. -- P199 23:20, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that these articles (trekschuit, narrowboat and barge) should be merged. Per definition, narrowboat is a typical British vessel. The definition of narrowboat is based on its narrowness. Obviuosly, trekschuit doesn't fit the definition of narrowboat: trekschuit is not British vessel, it is not that narrow, and it is for passengers only (while narrowboats were used for cargo transport also). The barge article is about moderm vessels, that are very different from threkschuit. So if you dislike trekschuit as article name, I would suggest to rename thais article as Dutch passenger barge (or Dutch passenger horse-drawn boat, or something like that). Thats how I'm gonna name the Russian article about narrowboat that I'm gonna to write when I'll have little bit more free time (this weekend probably). Kneiphof 21:15, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Note that the merge suggestion was changed to Horse-drawn boat, which is just about the same as your suggestion above. I take it then that you would support this merge? -- P199 12:53, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I looked around, and these trekschuit boats have been called schuyts, scuyts, scouts, and trekschuyts in English, as well as common boats. Since they were usually under sail when the wind was favorable, and sometimes pulled by people or mules, horse-drawn is not an accurate description. In the 19th and 20th centuries, they were motor-powered. They were however, exclusively for the traffic of passengers, as opposed to cargo, so I will consent to merging with 'Passenger Barge', but I find it an odd name, since the word Barge is usually associated with the transport of cargo. Perhaps 'Dutch Passenger Boat' is more accurate, but a bit wordy.

I don't really see what's wrong with using the Dutch name, though, since it is such a Dutch concept. This discussion strikes me as similar to the one on Levee/Dike. Jane 12:37, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

So the Dutch word "schuit" (schuyt is just an old ortography) had, indeed, entered the English language and was used in English texts. So I think it kan be used as article name.Kneiphof 19:19, 14 August 2007 (UTC)