Talk:Treatment of schizophrenia
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[edit] Alternative schizophrenia treatment
'an autopsy of 82 patients who had been diagnosed with schizophrenia. Gastritis was found in 50%, enteritis in 85% and colitis in 92%.' Modern medicine sees all mental illness deriving only from the brain - primarily from neurotransmitter imbalance and nothing else - the truth is that there many also be an underlining physical cause (eg: infection, celiac disease, etc) and this is often never investigated, and so its no wonder today we are faced with the current tragedy that the Mentally ill die 25 years earlier, on average. Studies you may want to read: '99% certain of a genetic association between schizophrenia and coeliac disease' Read more here
[edit] Nutrition
Should nutritional therapies be included from quality articles and studies (i.e. peer reviewed, double-blind, randomized, controlled-trials)? I think, absolutely. If there are general agreement, we do... Gnif global (talk) 12:47, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] salt, l-arginine and nitric oxide question
l-arginine is one treatment not mentioned in the Wikipedia article, but that is understandable considering the unremarkability of studies and paucity of reports Notpayingthepsychiatrist (talk) 09:54, 7 May 2008 (UTC).
In Philip Seeman's article SYNAPSE 49:209 –215 (2003) "Dopamine Displaces [3H]Domperidone From High-Affinity Sites of the Dopamine D2 Receptor, But Not [3H]Raclopride or [3H]Spiperone in Isotonic Medium: Implications for Human Positron Emission Tomography" PHILIP SEEMAN, TERESA TALLERICO, AND FRANCOISE KO1, they point out that in the petri dish brain samples with d2high, are converted to d2low by NaCl. Even with the benefits of this new method, Dr Seeman recommended future experiments to be done in hypotonic medium to halt the conversion to d2low.
So why doesn't the natural isotonic? blood salt maintain these receptors at normal levels?
I feel Dr Seeman's finding of a conversion to D2low, could hold a possible clue, if D2 affinity is linked to salt sensitivity. I had thought salt sensitivity could affect plasma salt concentration.
L-arginine abrogates salt-sensitivity: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=295672 as at 29-04-08. Does this convert d2high to low?
In the clinical setting, while still being treated with antipsychotics, negative and residual symptoms were greatly improved by l-arginine (in the case of negative symptoms) and modestly improved in the case of residual symptoms - perhaps only a modest improvement was necessary for antipsychotic treated residual symptoms ... (Am J Psychiatry 143:375-377, 1986) - the article points out that some patients experienced unusual electrolyte or fluid measures. Notpayingthepsychiatrist (talk) 11:26, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
A more recent article says: "It is concluded from our study that nitric oxide produces conflicting results on various models of psychosis. L-arginine might be useful as an antipsychotic without causing extrapyramidal symptoms" (http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=13460412 as at 01-05-08) "Role of nitric oxide in experimental models of psychosis in rats" GUPTA M; BALAKRISHNAN S.; PANDHI P; Methods and findings in experimental and clinical pharmacology 2001, vol. 23, no9, pp. 497-500. Notpayingthepsychiatrist (talk) 01:02, 1 May 2008 (UTC). Amphetamine was used to simulate psychosis in stereotype. 121.91.33.130 (talk) 19:29, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
J Clin Invest. 1991 November; 88(5): 1559–1567 "L-arginine abrogates salt-sensitive hypertension in Dahl/Rapp rats."P Y Chen and P W Sanders. This journal says inability to produce nitric oxide actually signals salt sensitivity: (Increased Salt-Sensitivity in Endothelial Nitric Oxide Synthase–Knockout American Journal of Hypertension, Volume 19, Issue 12, December 2006, Pages 1264-1269 Allison M. Leonard, Linda L. Chafe, Jean-Pierre Montani, Bruce N. Van Vliet) "...reduced production of NO by eNOS may promote salt-sensitivity and salt-induced hypertension." This page is an indicator that schizophrenics produce more NO. (http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=nitric+oxide+schizophrenia&btnG=Google+Search&meta=) and the link between nitric oxide production and salt sensitivity is repeated here: (Am J Hypertens (2000) 13, 973–979 ).
In conclusion, reports from individuals in this blog are probably true: http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/005764.html. And schizophrenia is permanent. (Then again: "Thus, NO and its metabolites are not suitable diagnostic tools to distinguish schizophrenia from psychically healthy control cases or from other brain disorders." BERNSTEIN Hans-Gert; BOGERTS Bernhard; KEILHOFF Gerburg The many faces of nitric oxide in schizophrenia. A review Schizophrenia research 2005, vol. 78, no1, pp. 69-86.)
Notpayingthepsychiatrist (talk) 00:52, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
There is infact no difference in the salt concentration of salt sensitive or salt resistant rats given a high salt diet indicating salt sensitivity is not important (Am J Physiol Heart Circ Physiol 258: H508-H514, 1990 Role of blood volume expansion in Dahl rat model of hypertension A. S. Greene, Z. Y. Yu, R. J. Roman and A. W. Cowley Jr). Actually l-arginine is converted into nitric oxide, and nitric oxide influences sodium excretion. Dr Seeman's article says the lack of salt reveals more d2high receptors. The vast majority of reports show increased nitric oxide increase in schizophrenics. Hence the reports of exacerbation of symptoms are true and l-arginine is dangerous for schizophrenics. Increased nitric oxide is a response to hypoxia. (Yet prenatal hypoxia does not increase juvenile nitric oxide, see table 2: Prenatal hypoxia-ischemia alters expression and activity of nitric oxide synthase in the young rat brain and causes learning deficits Brain Research Bulletin, Volume 49, Issue 5, 15 July 1999, Pages 359-365 Zhengwei Cai, Feng Xiao, Buyean Lee, Ian A. Paul, Philip G. Rhodes Open, so nitric oxide in adult post mortems is not proof of hypoxia. Notpayingthepsychiatrist (talk) 22:45, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
I think it is within the scope of this talk page to discuss treatments that could feature but don't work. Notpayingthepsychiatrist (talk) 13:04, 9 May 2008 (UTC) Notpayingthepsychiatrist (talk) 18:05, 10 May 2008 (UTC) Notpayingthepsychiatrist (talk) 18:37, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
Infact, salt-sensitive rats excrete less and store more salt than salt resistant ones. The salt sensitive ones have a far more permeable blood brain barrier and more brain salt uptake than the resistant ones - so, in theory, a patient would not want to "abrogate salt sensitivity". ("Handling 22NaCl by the Blood-Brain Barrier and Kidney Its Relevance to Salt-Induced Hypertension in Dahl Rats, Shlomoh Simchon, William Manger, Eugene Golanov, Jacob Kamen, George Sommer, Chris H. Marshall, Hypertension 1999;33;517-523). Notpayingthepsychiatrist (talk) 06:52, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Corroborating the main theory (based on Dr Seeman's observation) it is true that chronic schizophrenia includes hyponatremia (Schizophrenia Research 83 (2006) 307, M Jessina and J Montgomery, "Lack of association between antipsychotics and hyponatremia in chronic schizophrenia"). Notpayingthepsychiatrist (talk) 11:30, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
There is medication for hyponatremia, however diuretics may induce it, as does smoking. Notpayingthepsychiatrist (talk) 11:56, 26 May 2008 (UTC) Notpayingthepsychiatrist (talk) 12:29, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
