Talk:Translations of Frère Jacques/Archive 1

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[edit] Braille

That what has been written in the entry is NOT a real Braille, it's either a mistake in formatting (Braille letters are NEVER written in one line, see Braille; one should use some {pre} html formatting in order to obtain the reall Braille: with many empty spaces, monospaced font etc.), or it is just a rubbish (someone's joke).

Also remember that "Braille" is not a language but a system of writing used for many languages. Therefore it should state e.g. "English written in Braille". NoychoH 06:59, 23 October 2006 (UTC)


Quite correct. I was therefore very reluctant to include it and I am still torn about leaving it on the page. --Filll 21:40, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Russian Translation

Is the phrase "Brother John, are you sleeping? They are ringing in a/in the bell." not better translated as "Brother Ivan, are you sleeping? Bring in a handbell!" or "Brother Ivan, are you sleeping? Call in a handbell!" Filll 18:39, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I have edited it. It might be better if some expert was to check this. --Filll 17:06, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
My English isn't very good, so I don't know if you "ring a bell" or "ring in a bell" or ... (Poles "hit/beat IN a bell" and Russians "ring IN a bell" - it mens hitting), but your translation isn't right. I can understand Russian better than English, so I've made the translation. "Ivan" is "John", you can also write "Ivan" if you want. But "Звонят в колокольчик" [zvonjat v kolokol'chic] (?!!!) means "they bell" (="somebody bells, we can hear it"), it ISN'T order (the imperative mood). And "колокольчик" is "a little bell", but not necesarry "a handbell", why? There are eg. little bells in all churches hanging over the door and belling when the mass begins and the priest comes in. You ought to pull a ribbon (?) to bell it. Anyway using of diminutive forms is typical of Slavic languages (Polish, Czech, Russian etc.) - diminutive nouns are not necesarry little, using of such forms expresses a positive attitude from the speaker.
Please, correct it. Fringo 19:22, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
I've made some translations, because I was able to understand this versions. I can't understand Italian, but this translation is made by an Italian native speaker, who has translated it for me into German. I do not translate if I do not understand, you can believe me. Fringo 19:22, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
In English, one "rings a bell". We do frequently use Ivan, which of course is John in English.
I suspect that "Звонят в колокольчик" might be expressed as "Someone rings, we can hear it" Does that sound reasonable?--Filll 00:48, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
You're right. It's like French "on sonne". This "someone" can be a well known person and can mean an unknown one (it isn't important). The meaning is: "The bell is ringig". Fringo 07:57, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
Remeber that this is quite a modern translation, not a traditional one. I have asked personally for the Russian, Ukrainian and Belarusian vesrions in Brest, Minsk, St. Petersburg, Lutsk, and have always been answered that such a song does not exist in these languages, as it is related to the Roman Catholic pilgrimages to Santiago de Compostela, and the Orthodox Christians have had other places of pilgrimage. NoychoH 06:59, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

I am not sure how recent it is. I found more than one Russian translation, certainly predating the Wikipedia effort. And there is reportedly a very similar Russian song called "Father Theofil" which I am investigating. --Filll 21:40, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Maki Maki Translation

Where is maki maki spoken? I see that maki is one type of Japanese egg roll, and also Maki-maki is the name of the deity on Rapa Nui (Easter Island). Does anyone know where maki maki is spoken? --Filll 17:06, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I have investigated ethnologue.com and not been able to find Maki Maki on the list of known languages. I believe that Maki Maki does not exist and I propose that the entry for Maki Maki be removed. --Filll 19:42, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Since the translation into maki maki was entered by someone from Aruba, the same place where papiamento is a native language, I wondered if it might not be taki taki, which is also known as Sranan, the native language from another former Dutch colony, Suriname. I looked up a rudimentary Sranan dictionary and was unable to establish that this text is taki taki/Sranan--Filll 20:05, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
I think this is another joke (see Braille above). NoychoH 06:59, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

I added the Braille, which I found on the internet, although I was not quite certain it was a reasonable thing to add. I am quite uncertain about Maki maki, since I cannot determine if it is a real language or not. --Filll 21:41, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Maki maki is a dialect spoken Papua New Guinea. But in this case I think the Maki maki text is a Taki taki text. Therefore I will change the name Maki maki in Sranan-Tongo. When it turns out that the text is a fake, then it will be surely corrected since surinam people will not tolerate violations against their culture and language. --Lie-Hap-Po--

Ok that sounds reasonable. If it is from Surinam or Tongo, maybe we can contact an embassy or consulate and verify the text.--Filll 20:14, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


I went to the Sranan Tongo-English dictionary at http://www.sil.org/americas/suriname/Sranan/English/SrananEngDictIndex.html and it sure does not LOOK like Sranan Tongo text. It has to be something else. --Filll 20:56, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

It could be an alternative text of Papiamento. --Lie-Hap-Po--

I looked in the papiamentu dictionary and it does not appear to be standard papiamento, but there are dialects.--Filll 21:41, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Then please remove it. Lie-Hap-Po


What if we label it is as maki maki (unknown) and continue to try to find out about it? --Filll 22:48, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


Maki is another name for the language Kalumpang spoken in Sulawesi, Indonesia.--pastorant

[edit] Cantonese

Can the person who has written the Cantonese version give the character text? Greetings from Lie-Hap-Po

P.S. Let the Maki Maki text stay.

I obtained the Cantonese text from the web site: http://wongkk.com/video-clips-2/singing/overview.html

There is a video of someone singing this version of the song there. I was unable to get the video to work, but you might have more success. I did not find any Chinese character text of this song, however. --Filll 00:56, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

PS I am glad to leave the Maki Maki text stay until we can find out more about it. I suspect Maki Maki is an alternative or slang name for a Caribbean language which has an alternative and more common name. I called the Aruba tourist office to get some information about Maki Maki but they had not heard of Maki Maki. --Filll 00:57, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

I have check the web site and it is a pity that they didn't also provided the character text. It would be very hard for me to place a Cantonese character text based on the English translation. --Lie-Hap-Po

Well are there any email addresses or links on the web site? Maybe we can contact libraries in Hong Kong for help? Maybe someone familiar with that version of the song will come to the page to help? I think it is fantastic that so many people from around the world are willing and able to help with these articles--Filll 13:13, 14 October 2006 (UTC)


Here is a link with supposedly some Cantonese lyrics: http://www.asylumnation.com/asylum/showthread.php?s=93a05a6e342d904cddee1b6563d1d434&postid=916306 Hopefully that helps. --Filll 16:50, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chinese

I changed the link to "standard Mandarin" since Mandarin is the official language of China. I hope this is correct. Someone please check that the text is indeed Mandarin.--Filll 00:43, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

The text is Mandarin Chinese.--Lie-Hap-Po--

I didn't see any Chinese version, so I added the version I learned in Taiwan. --JimTheFrog 10:41, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Oops, never mind, I didn't see the separate list of alternative lyrics. (So, for the record, I don't think it was a good idea to split them into a separate article. --JimTheFrog 10:53, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I believe another variation exists in Shanghai--the text is essentially the same, with the exception that it is not two tigers but two mice, which of course shares the first character in Chinese.

[edit] chinese origins

A friend has asked if the song might not have chinese origins? the earliest reference to a chinese frere jacques song is 1926. I wonder if the chinese national library reference desk might help: http://www.nlc.gov.cn/old/old/newpages/english/work/ref.htm --Filll 05:01, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

The song has no Chinese origins. The song is introduced by and used by The West in the 19th century to get the Chinese to become Christians and to get the Chinese to rebel against The Manchu Imperial Court who ruled China as The Qing Dynasty. The tiger is the king of the beast in China. The Manchus were the rulers of China. One tiger has no tail,eyes, mouth or ears. The Manchus did not see, hear, speak of the needs of the Chinese. --Lie-Hap-Po--

[edit] Swahilli

Beber is a different language than Swahili. How come these texts are the same? --Lie-Hap-Po--

Let me check that. I might have made a mistake. You are good to have spotted that!--Filll 20:17, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


I removed the Berber that appears to be a mistake. If I can find another Berber song that is different, I will add it.--Filll 20:20, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


I checked and the problem appears in one of the internet sources I was cutting and pasting from. Of course, the internet is not perfect and many errors exist. Hopefully a place like Wikipedia will gradually evolve to being more reliable since it is so visible and can be readily edited.--Filll 20:25, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

I have two sources that have swapped the berber and swahili versions. I have guessed which is correct but this is still subject to change--Filll 20:36, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

I was taught the Swahili version of this song as a child, and the version here is COMPLETELY different. Unless the children of Kenya weren't singing in Swahili, this is wrong. I wish I knew how to correct this! (Earthsprite)

If you have another swahili version, please add it. Or put it on the talk page and I will add your version for you. One thing we have discovered is that there are many different versions in different languages. For example, I think there are more than 10 in Spanish!!--Filll 21:30, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Another Mandarin Song

Here is another mandarin song:

Ni hao ma, Ni hao ma, Wo hen hao, Wo hen hao (How are you? I'm very well.)

Unfortunately I have no more of it...


Here is another Mandarin song: Shang, Zhou, Qin, Han Shang, Zhou, Qin, Han Sui, Tang, Song Sui, Tang, Song Yuan, Ming, Qing, Republic Yuan, Ming, Qing, Republic Mao Zedong Mao Zedong

and another with Chinese names: Yu-an Ming Qing Kai-shek Yu-an Ming Qing Kai-shek

Mao Zedong Mao Zedong.

Comments?--Filll 14:53, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Is this also sung on the tune of Frere Jacques? Lie-Hap-po

Apparently all these are sung to the tune of Frere jacques, yes--Filll 20:45, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Where did you find them?

I found them on some web sites. I do not unfortunately have the addresses written down but I can maybe find addresses for you. There was no chinese character text with any of them. The first one that is incomplete I think comes from a New York Times article--Filll 21:14, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Some other French rounds (some related)

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=3020 I think londres flambe might be to the same tune, so I added it. Not sure about some of the others, although one clearly is same subject, but has 5 verses instead of 4. I listened to it. it is somewhat reminiscent of Frere Jacques, but not quite the same...--Filll 04:31, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Another version, but what language?

Here is one that I think is eastern european:

Diadia Iakov, Diadia Iakov OR: Pop Martyn, Pop Martyn
Chto ty spish'? Chto ty spish'?
Kolokol udaril, kolokol udaril:
Din-don-don, din-don-don

from http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0202&L=seelangs&D=1&F=&S=&P=6408

Anyone know what language that is? --Filll 21:22, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


Here is another, from same set of web page, but I do not know what language it is, presumably eastern european however: Akh kakoi zhe, bratets Iakov
Ty lentiai, ty lentiai,
Esli po nedele
Ty lezhish' v posteli
Ai, ai, ai! Ai, ai, ai!

Kak podnimem poskeree
Zvon-trezvon, zvon-trezvon
I zastavim brattsa
Delom zanimat'sia
Din don don, din don don.

Any ideas? --Filll 21:26, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Names of some Versions in Unknown Languages

Fader Jacob, Waaryaa Jaamac, Pater Jakob, Voae Jakob, Bab Yakob Any idea which languages these are from? I obtained these from the web site:

http://gommerud.skole.no/index.php?sideID=205

Thanks for any suggestions!--Filll 22:52, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

It might be very difficult to judge by just one word and by the spelling of the proper name (Jacob, Jakob, Jakop, Yakob, Yakop) but let's try
Fader Jacob - Danish; Norwegian (formal, old spelling - Rettskrivning 1926 - for the latter)
Pater Jakob - also be Danish or Norwegian (these two languages are very closely related); the word "Pater" comes certainly from latin and is used to priests especially the catholic ones)
Waaryaa Jaamac - Somalian
Bab Yakob, or Baba Yakob, Baba Jakob, as all are found in the original webpage - might well be Persian, or Arabic, or Swahili, or Malaysian (bahasa Melayu)
voæ Jakob OR voä Jakob - seems to me Saami (or Lapp) - but needs to be checked.

NoychoH 20:51, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Another cantonese version??

打开蚊账。
打开蚊账。
有一只蚊子。
有一只蚊子。
快点打它。
快点打它。
打死它。
打死它。


Dakai wenzhang.
Dakai wenzhang.
You yi zhi wenzi.
You yi zhi wenzi.
Kuai dian da ta.
Kuai dian da ta.
Da si ta.
Da si ta.

Translation: Open the mosquito net. There is a mosquito. Hurry a little and hit it. Hit and kill it.

Character text can both be Mandarin and Cantonese. Transcription spelling is Hanyu Pinyin which is used to spell the sounds of Mandarin Chinese only.


--Filll 18:00, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Splitting up the alternative lyrics

I think that was a good idea and I applaud Fringo for splitting the article up.--Filll 16:13, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Russian Version

The Russian version Fringo is interested in can be found here. I did not put it in the article because I think it is a low quality reference.--Filll 02:08, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reference to Alternative Lyrics

Is it not better to have it in a list of links like all other Wikipedia pages instead of a linked title to a nonexistant section? I believe we should follow Wikipedia practice if we can.--Filll 14:36, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Darnscha

I suspect this is another fictitious language. Opinions?--Filll 19:32, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

It certainly is. cf. Talk:Frère Jacques#"Darneysh"?, User talk:Darney Kock and user contributions. Nonsense removed. --FordPrefect42 20:02, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Other Dutch Version

I think there is a second dutch version at [1] but I cannot transcribe the words. Can anyone help? --Filll 17:27, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


The text is under the video and is the same version Lie-Hap-Po

Actually if you listen to the video, it is not the same as what is transcribed below the picture. I asked someone who is a native Dutch speaker to help and they agree it is not the same words but they cannot make out the words either. I have debated writing again to the people at the web site. I have been in communication with them and they plan to put several new Frere Jacques videos and lyrics up in the next month or two in languages which we do not yet have, so we will get some more. It is good to find another group that has the same interests as us in compiling a list of lyrics to this song in different languages. --Filll 22:10, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

"De bijl is a gaan"(The axe is [a] go) is a bad translation from the French version. I shall delete the "Vader Jekke" version because the verse isn't wrote in a dialect unlike Jacob's name. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Katoog (talk • contribs) 15:09, August 23, 2007 (UTC).