Talk:Transgender musicians

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The current version of this article has severe POV problems, and needs rewriting in NPOV style: it currently reads like an advocacy piece. -- Karada 18:24, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I think the POV problem has been solved by a rewrite. Gpscholar 21:20, 18 June 2006 (UTC) gpscholar

Karada, it seems that you and I are the only parties to this dispute, and, as I have rewritten the article to correct the POV problem you raised, it seems that maybe even we are not really in dispute. Gpscholar 01:01, 20 June 2006 (UTC) gpscholar

Contents 1 Post By A Member of One Of This Page's Subjects 2 'Lola' 3 Comment on the scholarship of the article 4 Requested move 4.1 Survey 4.2 Discussion 5 Fair use rationale for Image:TOS-Front.jpg 6 Questionable accuracy, references needed 7 Disputed 8 Trimming

[edit] Post By A Member of One Of This Page's Subjects

I, jimmo531, am the lead singer/songwriter of The Peecocks, one of this page's subjects. I have read articles on this website before & I find it a useful resource, though often, sadly, the only website with info. on some subjects.

A few things I will say about including our band on this page--

Grateful as I am to have a mention on Wikipedia--The Peecocks' songs' subject matter was not really "transgender," just that some of it was blatently male homosexual, with a slant on the lewd & crude side. Also, we did straight-ahead rock covers and I'd make them gender-honest if I was singing to a guy, etc. But we also did some non-sexual originals and covers too, and parodies which were kind of like R-rated "Weird Al" numbers. Some of us did dress androgynously on stage, and I did utilize provocative props, but that's as far as it went.

Our only connections with transgenderism were that we used to cover a Jayne County song, then toured with Jayne twice (in fact, The Peecocks was her back up band at one show). She's a real trouper & it was an honor to be associated with someone from the Warhol and punk rock history books! I am retired from performing now, due to health problems, but still look back fondly on that part of my life--for the most part. In the absence of a male homosexual rock and roll page, better to be included here than have no page on Wikipedia at all. But I still think with a plethora of male homosexual rock personalities, from Little Richard to Brian Epstein to Freddy Mercury, there exists a need for someone to do a separate page on the subject. Consider that a challenge to some aspiring writer out there!

jimmo531 05:46, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 'Lola'

I can't see the relevance of the mention of "Lola" in the opening paragraph. This is an article about music by TG people, not songs about TG people (otherwise, why not include "Walk on the Wild Side" et al as well). - Iridescent (talk to me!) 14:52, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comment on the scholarship of the article

I guess I am qualified to comment on this piece, as the writer apparently relied heavily on information from my website, www.queermusicheritage.com, and music special I did in November of 2005 on Transgendered Music, and even took graphics from my site. It doesn't appear the author read the script, but just took my inclusion in the playlist as an indication of an artist being transgendered. I played some songs to make lyrical points, like Angela Motter's song, and did not state that she was TG. Otherwise, glad to see the artists get more exposure.

JD Doyle www.QueerMusicHeritage.com

PS, I have done several music specials on TG Music, and have two more planned for May and June of 2007. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 152.216.7.5 (talk) 14:27, 4 May 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Requested move

This article has been renamed from transgendered musicians to transgender musicians as the result of a move request. --Stemonitis 14:22, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:TOS-Front.jpg

Image:TOS-Front.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 04:32, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Questionable accuracy, references needed

This article appears to be listing bands and musicians that are not transgender. We know that least one isn't transgender, as noted above by one of the very subjects. And if one isn't transgender, it's very likely that others are, also. There are no references supporting claims of transgenderness (if that's a word) for almost all of them. I don't know where this list of musicians was gleaned from (perhaps the website noted above), but it needs to be cited. I'll remove the Peecocks part for now (apologies to the subject), but this article really needs a lot of work. -kotra 04:02, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Well Genesis P Oridge is not transgender, he simply has breast implants and possibly some facial reconstruction to appear more feminine. However it's part of an ongoing art project of his to appear more like a perfect hybrid of the two genders and less about his own gender identity. As far has I know he still refers to himself with he, him, his, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.63.201.228 (talk) 10:22, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Disputed

The Kinks’ "Lola" is a mainstream popular rock and roll song that tells the story of how a young man meets a transvestite in a Soho nightclub and takes her home with him at closing time.^{[citation needed]}

Removed this from lede. What are the reliable sources that show this? -- Guroadrunner 03:32, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree with removing this (see my post above) as neither of the acts who had hits with this (The Kinks and The Raincoats) were TV/TG and this is an article about TG musicians, but I disagree there's any problem with the interpretation - it may be an unsourced statement, but it's easily enough sourced ([1], [2] for example) and I don't think there's any doubt that "Lola" is a song about transvestitism. — iridescent (talk to me!) 15:16, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trimming

This article still appears to list people and bands that don't quite reflect the title (transgender musicians). So I would like to trim out any that are not ALL of the following:

1. transgender or transsexual (easily determined, just find a mention somewhere credible of them being transgender)

2. a current or former musician (also easily determined. However, this would eliminate bands unless most or all of the band is transgender)

3. notable (has their own article?)

Before I or someone else goes ahead and does this, are there any thoughts? Particularly on the last item. I'm not sure if someone should be considered non-notable simply because they don't have an article yet. Or should they? -kotra (talk) 23:56, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm glad to see this post. With all due respect, this article (especially the intro) is completely WP:OR and either needs to be sourced or reduced to a list of names. (When I say 'needs to be sourced', I mean the topic as a whole, not the individual entries.) Pointing to one online article really isn't sufficient; you need at least a few secondary sources to establish that the transgendered musical movement as a whole is notable. Torc2 (talk) 01:54, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

While I agree with the first two points, and I agree with the first word of point number 3, I think that it is appropriate that this article also cover those who are notable but don't yet have their own article, so I have to disagree on the proposal that they should only stay if they already have their own article. I'd also suggest that where there are enough references (eg Jade Starr), the section could be spun out into a stub and this article would evolve into being a series of executive summaries. For those who don't yet have adequate references to establish notability, perhaps we should try to find enough references to establish notability and, if that cannot be achieved in a defined timeframe, then they would be removed, with the understanding that if someone later establishes notability, they can still be re-added (or have their own article created) later. --AliceJMarkham (talk) 11:11, 21 December 2007 (UTC)