Talk:Trans-Siberian Railway
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Trans-Siberian Railway was a good article, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. Delisted version: April 10, 2007 |
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[edit] The below needs to be merged into this article:
de:Transsibirische Eisenbahn The Transsiberian Railway is a railway line that runs across Russia from Moscow to Vladivostok. It passes Volga River, Ural Mountains, southern Siberia, Lake Baikal and terminates on the shore of the Pacific Ocean. The Transsiberian Railway line is the most important traffic connection within Russia and the longest Railway line worldwide. It has connections to Mongolia and China and attracts many tourists.
- I think everything is in the article now. Schutz 21:25, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
[edit] How many time zones
Can someone please tell me how many time zones the trans-siberian railway crosses between vladivostok and moscow? I appreciate your help. Maria
- Hello Maria: http://www.worldtimezone.com/time-russia2.htm Your answer is eight, inclusive. See the website above! David
[edit] 9289 km or 2988 km?
In the article, it says the line is 9289 km long, but the other wikis, as well as Image:TransSiberianRailwayAtKm9288.jpg, all say 9288 km ? Which is right? // — GurraJG | Talk 19:28, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
- Indeed, the marker in Vladivostok shown on the picture says 9288 km, so I would be inclined to believe this value, and will change the article accordingly. And anyway, a difference of 1 km over a total of 9288 km is meaningless, especially since it is not clear exactly where the counting start in the first and last station. Schutz 21:20, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
Actually they're both right!!
A friend and I have just come back from travelling the Trans-Mongolian, and (perhaps unusually) we travelled *to* Moscow rather than *from* it. (Although we never went to Vladivostok so we can't prove *this* particular issue.) We noticed that the both the kilometre markers, and the 100metre posts, were labelled differently depending on which side you were looking at. The 100m posts went from 10-2 going *to* Moscow, and from 1-9 coming *from* Moscow.
In addition, the kilometre posts had different figures on both sides; we're not quite sure *why*, but for an example, whilst the obelisk marking the boundary between Asia and Europe is indeed at the 1,777km post coming *from* Moscow, going the other way the same marker post reads 1,778km. (We have no documentary proof of this as it's somewhat tricky to take a picture of two sides of the same post simultaneously, especially when travelling around 50kph ...)
Assume that the same must be true at Vladivostok, where I would imagine that looking 'towards' Moscow the post would say 9289km but arriving at the station it would show 9288km. If someone could confirm this logical conclusion it might resolve this issue! (I guess it depends on whether you consider the 'start' to be at the buffers of the line or at the end of the station platform?)
(if this doesn't look right it's because this *is* my first ever post ... !!) Sandwell 12:32, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
- Welcome to the 'pedia, Sandwell. Your post looks all right, don't worry. As far as I know, the reason for the double-marking is that a "kilometer" does not refer to a precise point, but to the entire distance between two posts — if you look at it this way, having the same number on both boundaries makes sense, and 9289 is indeed the real total distance. But in any case, there is much confusion with the kilometer posts, especially around Moscow, where the train can use several different itineraries, and even if the "default" track has changed over the years, the posts have not been updated all the way to Vladivostok. The total distance is thus approximative in any way. On my side, I did not even have the opportunity to take a picture of the 1,777km post — going towards Moscow as well, I had been waiting for about 30km with my camera, and when we arrived near the obelisk, a freight train decided to pass between us and the obelisk... very, very frustrating, I can tell you... All the best, Schutz 12:57, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] this article is copied from another webiste
A lot (if not all) of the history section is copied from http://www.kolchak.org/History/Siberia/Trans-Siberian%20Railroad.htm
I hope permission has been given for this!
(comment above was made by 82.32.30.2 on 27 November 2005, 02:17).
- Seems like a valid point; note that the link mentioned above does not work, but a version of the page is still available in the google cache. In particular, the second paragraph (starting with Similar to the First Transcontinental Railroad in the USA...) and the fourth one (starting with Convict labour, from Sakhalin Island and other places...) are very similar to the web page cited above. I'll see if I can change that. Schutz 01:28, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Prices and safety
I'm thinking of taking this trip from Moscow to Vladivostok but the information on the net is pretty scarce (probably because I can't read Russian). This article is pretty good but I was wondering if anyone had any information about the costs of the ticket and about the safety assured by the authorities. Being stuck for 7 days on a train that passes through some of the most remote places on earth could be dangerous unless the authorities took precautions for the safety of the passengers.
Do not worry about safety! During my last travel I met an electrical engineer from Tokyo. He said to me that he travelled from Moscow to Vladivostok twice. No problem at all!Sea diver 07:24, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Line speed?
What is the typical / maxiumum line speed on the route? As a lower bound, 9,288 km / 5,772 mi over 7 days gives about 55 km/h / 35 mph. Tompw 16:31, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
- According to Russian railways website, a trip Moscow-Vladivostok takes 202 hours, which is 46 km/h average speed. The highest speed is achieved at Omsk-Novosibirsk section, which is very plain and straight. Which particular speed - I can't tell that. I can only guess by figures I've read - it is between 80 and 100 km/h. I've read about suburban trains here, making 100 km/h, but that is considered unsafe (for pedestrians crossing the railway - they might not notice an approaching train). --Ъыь (mailbox) 08:59, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Human cost
Shouldn't there be something about the number of people who worked on the construction and the death toll? Clarityfiend 15:00, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
- If you can find an unbiased and accurate reference, then by all means.
-G
[edit] Moscow-Pyongyang
Removing references to this as being longer than the Moscow-Vladivostok route. Moscow-Pyongyang route is currently only 8626 km, qv. [1]. Pyongyang service is provided by a branch of the Trans-Manchurian so adding reference there. (Train detaches at Chenjan and waits for the Beijing-Pyongyang train?) --Kain 15:56, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
- Foot in mouth time... found the direct service to Pyongyang... will alter. --Kain 16:36, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Good Article Review
This article is currently at Good Article Review. LuciferMorgan 11:11, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] History
I think the history section contains some obvious errors:
The route was opened by Tsarevich Nicholas Alexandrovitch of Russia after his eastern journey ended.
It was the road construction that was inaugurated by Crown Prince Nicholas in Vladivostok on 31 May 1892. By the time the road opened he already became tsar Nicolas II.
In 1898, the first train reached Irkutsk and the shore of Lake Baikal. The railroad ran on to the East, across the Shilka and the Amur rivers and soon reached Khabarovsk. The Vladivostok-Khabarovsk branch was built a bit earlier, in 1897.
The original track went what was called Chinese Eastern Railway and is now known as Trans-Manchurian line. It was opened in 1903-1905. The Ussury branch was indeed build in 1897 and it was indeed a branch to Khabarovsk, it was not meant to be the main road until after the Russian-Japan war, when the nother route (Amur railway) was started in 1907.
(Source: [2],[3], all in Russian) Beil 22:22, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Weather Conditions
How does the railway manage to continue to function throughout the harsh winters? If it were run by the former British Rail or its successor organisations, it would presumably be a summer service only. Millbanks 08:09, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Article full of errors
This is one of the most low quality articles I have found in Wikipedia. It can clearly be seen that it was written by non specialist in railway matters. The original Siberian Railway started from Tsheljabinsk and ended in Irkutsk. In Irkutsk the local time was changed 4 hours 58 minutes ahead of St.Petersburg Mean Time (2 hours 2 minutes ahead of GMT) to Irkutsk Local Time which was followed to Mantshuria. Chinese Eastern Railway started at Manchuria Station and ended at Pogranitshnaja Station, a distance of 1388 versts (1481 km). On Chinese Eastern Railway the Harbin Local Time, 6 hours 25 minutes ahead of St.Petersburg Mean Time, was followed to Vladivostok.
The so called TRANS SIBERIAN train service run from Moscow to Vladivostok over Moscow - Kazan Zh.D, Zysran - Vjazma Zh.D, Samara - Zlatoust Zh.D, Siberian Zh.D, Zabaikal Zh.D, Chinese Eastern Zh.D and Ussuri Zh.D. The St.Petersburg - Vladivostok train service run over Northern Zh.D and Perm Zh.D to Tsheljabinsk and then over the route described above. Up to July 1914 this route offered the longest sleeping car service in the world operated by the Internarional Sleeping Car Company, the ones a week direct Warsaw - Smolensk - Moscow - Samara - Ufa - Tsheljabinsk - Novonikolajev - Krasnojarsk - Irkutsk - Verhneudinsk - Harbin - Vladivostok v.v. 1. and 2. class sleeping cars. The Moscow portion run twice a week and the St.Petersburg portion ones a week.
There is a lot of good literature of this railway including also detailed history of South Mantshurian Zh.D. which passed under Japanese ownership after the Russo - Japanese War 1904 - 1905. The date when the Japanese took over the South Mantshuria Railway was August 1, 1906. They renamed it to South Manchuria Railway Company and operated the main line 704.3 km between Dairen and Hsinking with 50.8 km Port Arthur line. The 260.2 km Mukden - Antung line was built later by the Japanese, at first to narrow (762 mm) gauge but soon regauged to standard 1435 mm gauge providing link to Chosen State Railways providing direct rail link to Fusan (Pusan) over Keigi and Keifu lines (949.8 km).
JN
[edit] Please correct the errors you see
Thank you, JN, for your attention to the article and for providing valuable information here. You are welcome to make improvements to the article.Steveshelokhonov 21:12, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] From St. Petersburg to Vladivostok
Original purpose of the Trans-Siberian Railway was to connect St. Peterburg, then the capital of Russia, with Vladivostok, as was declared by the Tsar Alexander II and Tsar Nicholas II in several official written documents and public statements. While the Siberian portion is correctly attributed to the segment between Chelyabinsk - Vladivostok, the main goal and purpose of the entire railway is essentially the full uninterrupted route from St. Petersburg to Vladivostok.
In 1889, Sergei Witte was appointed Director of Railway Affairs by the official order from the Tsar Alexander II. Witte took this office in St. Petersburg and was put in charge of one of the largest state-funded budgets in the history of railroad constructions in the world. About one billion and a half of "old rubles" was the enormous sum of money at that time, comparable to the military budget of Russia. The strategic importance of this railroad led to construction of several additional branches, four parallel railways in central and northern Russia, and several additional projects in Siberia, Mongolia, China and in the Far East.
St. Petersburg was the original starting point for the complete journey. The train from St. Petersburg to Vladivostok is currently in operation on regular weekly schedule.Steveshelokhonov 21:12, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Photos in "Construction" paragraph
I question the two beautiful photos contained in the "Construction" paragraph. They are both labelled as being taken in 1910, but color photography was very uncommon before the mid-1930's. They really don't look like they were hand tinted. Could the date be wrong?
Dan Snyder - the Fancy Dancer (ballroom) fancy_dancer@wideopenwest.com —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.107.188.130 (talk)
- These pictures were taken by Sergey Prokudin-Gorsky. The article explains how he managed to create the colour photographs. Also, there's a gallery of his images on Wikimedia Commons. Ae-a 19:26, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] route template
I have updated the route template to the same as Bryn Thomas's trans-siberian handbook. Before it stated that the route passed through Vladimir and Nizhny Novograd, which it doesn't. It passes through Yaroslavl, hence the train departing from Yaroslavsky terminal. The km markers were all out of kilt. I have updated to what the book says. As to the smaller stations, I will be going through later and adding them in and including them in as collasped sections, like I have started. Nomadtales 11:38, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Information banners
I guess we have to put an warning about the long information banners. If these banners are on "show" mode then the whole article looks messed up. (due to the relative lengths of the written up article body and the height of images are the desktop size ). The images are displaced out of context at the end of the article and the edit buttons are all displaced to various places. so my suggestions are :
1) an warning about the long information banners, instead can also consider horizontal ones, with the railway map.
and/or
2) a separate gallery for the images at the end of the article,
since the images are good and an integral part of the article, it is essential to keep them in proper sections of the article. Jeroje 06:18, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Technical limitations reached on this article
In case you hadn't noticed, a large number of templates aren't getting displayed on this page. Looking at the page source, the following text appears quite a few times...
<!-- WARNING: template omitted, pre-expand include size too large -->
When this happens, the template isn't rendered, but simply displayed as a link to the template. I think the problem is in the multiple infoboxes here and their calls to all the route diagram templates pushing up the template count. So, what do we split out to another article to resolve this problem? My first thought would be to put the route information for each of the three routes listed into their own articles, since that's where the route diagrams make the most sense. Slambo (Speak) 21:25, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
I found the page I was thinking about that described the template limitations: Wikipedia:Template limits. Slambo (Speak) 21:53, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
- The real issue is that {{Trans-Siberian Railway}} exceeds the limit by itself. Mackensen (talk) 22:55, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
-
- This was working previously, for some reason it has just now stopped. The only way to fix the problem is to reduce the size of {{Trans-Siberian Railway}}. Seeing as I created the monster I know that there are tons of little stations included on the route guide that can be removed and are not really necessary. The only thing is getting around to doing it. Nomadtales (talk) 00:04, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
I've commented out the three route templates for now. Mackensen (talk) 12:21, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Russia/North America Line
Why was the part about a train from Moscow to Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal removed --Heart Like a Wheel (talk) 17:44, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
- It's unrealistic at the moment. I have heard talk of a Bering Strait tunnel, but until that is actually built and until there is a reliable source that we can cite, its removal from the article is a nearly foregone conclusion. Slambo (Speak) 18:03, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
