Talk:Trafford Park

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Contents

[edit] List format of history section

User:Anthony Appleyard recently removed the {{Prose}} tag from this article's History section, on the grounds that a list is clearer.

I very strongly disagree with that judgement, which also flies in the face of WP:MOS. So I have reverted the tag. I hope that Anthony Appleyard will now engage in a discussion on this subject, instead of a revert war. --Malleus Fatuarum 22:14, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

I must agree here. Not (just) with Malleus Fatuarum, but more fundamentally, the style guide policy of wikipedia. List's are generally not a good approach to compendic writing and are heavily frowned upon by the wider editting community for many reasons. What's further striking to me, is that this particular section on this particular article is one of those parts of this encyclopedia that would least benefit from a list approach, regardless.
What I must insist here is that Anthony Appleyard either leaves the tag in place, converts the list to prose or attempt to change the convention itself, rather than remove this important maintainence tag. Jza84 00:04, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sir Humphrey de Trafford confusion

As written, the article, citing Canal Archive appeared to state that the Fourth Baronet de Trafford had been the landowner who strongly opposed the ship canal in the early 1880s. In fact, Sir Humphrey de Trafford, the Second Baronet was the landowner at this time. He died in 1886, and his son Sir Humphrey Francis de Trafford, was more positive towards the canal. Therefore I have removed the text mentioning the "4th Sir Humphrey de Trafford". Rupert Clayton 18:38, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] First planned industrial estate

Does anyone know if Nicholls (pp. xii) explicitly states that Trafford Park is the "first planned industrial estate in the world"? Are there any other qualifiers? I'm just wondering what Broadheath is (started in 1885, about 12 years before Trafford Park). Does it qualify as an industrial estate or does it count as unplanned? Nev1 (talk) 16:00, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Interesting question about Broadheath. The statement on page xiii is actually a foreword written by Trafford Park Development Corporation, which says: "The emergence of Trafford Park in 1896 gave the world its first and largest industrial park".
What Nicholls himself says, on page 167 is: "Undoubtedly, it is hailed as Britain's, if not the world's, first industrial estate". So maybe it comes down to what qualifies as as "industrial estate"? Obviously there was no development at all in Trafford Park before 1896, but wasn't there some pre-existing occupation of Broadheath before the first industry arrived? --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 16:25, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
You might be right, there was some prior occupation of Broadheath. It looks like it all boils down to what's meant by a "planned industrial estate". Nev1 (talk) 16:31, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
Slough Trading Estate is making simillar claims to this article. I've raised it at that article's talk page (but it seems seldom visited mind). Looks like it is that article that is lacking verifiability. -- Jza84 · (talk) 20:32, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
Slough's claim doesn't stand up at all, and as you say, it's completely unreferenced. Nev1 has a case for Broadheath, but I think that we're talking about purpose-built industrial parks, not places where there was already some occupation and industry was introduced.
BTW, if you're seriously considering taking up that offer of an admin nomination I've seen on your talk page then posting anything potentially controversial, anywhere, is a big no-no. Think beige, think bland. ;-) --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 21:17, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm trying, but when I mix the colours in my mind, I get blood red for some reason... not even off white! Perhaps an omen?... I've probably busted my chances by even stating this!... oh no! On a more serious note though, the Slough claim doesn't stand up at all no. I found it by chance, so there could be others elsewhere in the UK and abroad. I would urge very tight and reliable citation for us here to keep us on our project's successful track! -- Jza84 · (talk) 21:29, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
Well, we've produced references supporting the fact that Trafford Park started development in 1896. There's no doubt that those references are reliable. Nev1 has suggested a potential counterclaim, that Broadheath was the world's first, in 1885. Again, supported by some evidence, but a claim that I'd reject because the site was already developed, albeit it not for industry. It's down to any other upstarts to provide evidence to back their own claims up I think. Ours are fully documented. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 23:31, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
There’s another one: Nela Park in the US (“first industrial park in the world”, unreferenced). If no one else can provide a decent reference Trafford Park looks like the best bet. Even then, only Broadheath is older. Nev1 (talk) 21:44, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
I think it's stretching credibility beyond reasonable limits to claim that a park in which one company plonked itself, with no others, is an industrial park. To say nothing of the fact that construction didn't begin until 1911. I wonder how many other articles ther are making the same claim? --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 23:50, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sources about Trafford Park during WWII

You can verify the information about Metrovicks, AV Roe and Rolls Royce is taken from official websites:

and the hit Old Trafford with the crater in the lawn is here:

Michael Palomino (talk) 19:00, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the links. If you have the sources don't be afraid to integrate them into the article yourself. Nev1 (talk) 19:10, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
It might be worth pointing out though that the aristopia article is a mirror of wikipedia's Stretford article, most of which I wrote. So hardly "official". :-) --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 19:51, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox image

Would the Trafford Park Hotel be a suitable lead image? --Jza84 |  Talk  22:45, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Not sure. The article already uses a picture of the hotel; I'll give it some thought. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 14:19, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
It was just a suggestion. I wasn't sure how major a landmark it was, though it's a pretty building. Still on a quest to get more static images in these GM infoboxes. --Jza84 |  Talk  23:47, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
Trafford Park is massive, and the hotel is hidden down a side street by The Village. But don't worry, I'll think of something. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 02:38, 3 May 2008 (UTC)