Talk:Toxicofera

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Eventually the Dr. Fry info should get his own page... is there a Wikipedia category for 'extreme science'? ;-) -- Limulus 01:56, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

I started a discussion about the Wikipedia entry on Dr. Fry's forum -- Limulus 02:16, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Great as it is to see people enjoying science, notable for a scientist should be restricted to major advances in a field. Compare to other scientists who are in wikipedia, this does not meet the standard. Sad mouse 00:39, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Given as how the Mosasaurs are presumed to be descended from the monitor lizards, should they be included in Toxicofera, too?--Mr Fink 02:37, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merging with Squamates

I think this should merge with the main squamate page.--4444hhhh (talk) 05:22, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

What I was trying to say is bring Toxicofera to the classifacation like this:

Classification

Classically, the order is divided into three suborders:

  • Lacertilia, the lizards;
  • Serpentes, the snakes;
  • Amphisbaenia, the worm lizards.

Of these, the lizards form a paraphyletic group. In newer classifications the name Sauria is used for reptiles and birds in general, and the Squamata are divided differently:

  • Suborder Iguania (the iguanas and chameleons)
  • Suborder Scleroglossa
    • Infraorder Gekkota (the geckos)
    • Infraorder Anguimorpha (the monitors, goannas, Komodo dragon, Gila monster, and slow-worms)
    • Infraorder Scincomorpha (skinks, whiptail lizards and common European lizards)
    • Infraorder Serpentes (the snakes)
    • Infraorder Amphisbaenia

The exact relationships within these two suborders are not entirely certain yet, though recent research strongly suggests that several families form a venom clade which encompasses a majority (nearly 60%) of Squamate species. The group is call Toxicofera. Toxicofera combines the following groups from traditional classification:

  • suborder Serpentes (snakes)
  • suborder Iguania (anoles, chameleons, iguanas, etc.)
  • infraorder Anguimorpha, consisting of:
  • family Varanidae (monitor lizards, including the Komodo dragon)
  • family Anguidae (alligator lizards, glass lizards, etc.)
  • family Helodermatidae (Gila monster and Mexican beaded lizard)

--4444hhhh (talk) 15:35, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Absolutely not. This is fine as a stand-alone theory or hypothesis, but the scientific community has not recognized this classification.--Mike Searson (talk) 21:36, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding the "citation needed" mentions all over the article

If one looks at the last edit I did in 2005 [1] it actually makes sense; the refs are listed as "papers". Basically the article just needs some cleanup and partial rv to the text from then. I will try to help put it in the proper format... -- Limulus (talk) 08:31, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

That 2005 version is pretty good, actually. I still challenge anyone to find where they found venom glands in a Green Iguana, the reporter who wrote that in the article needs to be strung up(alongside the halfwit who designed this wireless keyboard that drops letters on me!). Fry lost credibility with me when he wrote "Iguania" as opposed to "Agaminae"...sloppy junk science at worst, intentionally misleading the public at best.--Mike Searson (talk) 08:44, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
Hmm... in the 2006 article, Fry does say "The iguanian lizard Pogona barbata" but I note on the fourth page he has two refs for "Squamate reptile phylogeny", one of which is a different Vidal article, and describes an 'Iguania lineage' of "Iguanidae, Agamidae and Chamaeleontidae". I think I need to fix the Cladistics section now ^_^; Thanks for the praise RE my 2005 edits BTW :) -- Limulus (talk) 11:45, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
BTW, as I refresh myself on Fry's work and interviews, I get the impression that his strong suit is catching and milking exotic venomous reptiles, not doing the phylogeny; I think he is thus relying on others for that and if he makes mistakes, at least he references them :) -- Limulus (talk) 06:02, 31 December 2007 (UTC)