Talk:Town and gown
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[edit] Expanded chronology
I have greatly expanded this article to cover the chronology and reflect the issues - with the assistance of a Wikipedia user who provided some valuable information on Cambridge University and a wonderful illustration of academic garb (the "gown'). I invite users to improve it(edit, add, delete, etc.). soverman 21 Jun 2005 1517 (UTC)
[edit] Licensing laws
"(Some of these privileges still exist - for example colleges in the University can sell alcohol to their students under a special licence without having to follow normal UK alcohol licensing laws.)"
The new licensing laws remove this privilege - Oxford and Cambridge college bars must now obtain a license like any other pub.
[edit] Great article, trying to soften some POV at end
A beautifully written as well as informative article... Great coverage of a lot of issues. There are some "POV" questions.
The "so-called G.I. Bill of Rights"; while it is now an opt-in program, it was one of the first pieces of legislation to cement specific promises to veterans into law. Many veterans would argue very strenuously that they did view it as a literal "bill of rights" -- veteran or not, at that time very few Americans attended college unless they were of the upper classes. Arguably there's a lot of tension between veterans and the traditional culture of academe - James Webb, former Secretary of the Navy, has spoken about experiences in law school, while on the GI Bill. I think the comment was meant to reflect the "slang" name of "GI Bill" and changed it thus. (grin) On a connected note, anyone who is curious about that period should check out the movie "The Best Years of Our Lives". It's about veteran readjustment in post WWII America; "An Apartment for Peggy" is another movie from the period, about the immense housing crunch as married ex-GIs attended school in droves. This is the real reason for Levittown and the growth of suburbs.
Added comment about the growth of "knowledge communities" ... Boston, Ann Arbor, Madison, Austin are all examples of college towns that have influenced the growth of high tech, dotcom, and other "knowledge intensive" communities. The influx of workers may make these areas extremely expensive (another great topic for Wikipedia) compared to neighboring communities.
The previous edit referred to the "best scenarios"... well, "best" would be subjective. Same with "(the Kent State and Jackson State killings are grim reminders of intervention turning into tragedy)." Yes, I agree that they are grim, but it could be argued that they are a grim reminder of students run amuck, or a grim reminder for the need for gun control, or a grim reminder of the ... fill in the viewpoint there. That is not to say I don't agree with a lot of what's stated in this essay, but that it still needs to be objective - describing the different point of views, but not taking a stand one way or the other.
Now, the end of the article, while ...again, it's beautifully written and very positive, is also very POV... "The division betwen town and gown is rapidly fading." That's an opinion - a well researched and written one, but still an opinion.
I respect all the time and effort into making this a great article; I tried to make some changes to help it fit in better with Wikipedia's stance on POV. Noirdame 08:38, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Proposed merger
Town and gown is older and has more info than University Town Politics, but they are the same topic and some sections read nearly identically. While the origins and some present-day issues are political, there are other issues, so the former seems like a better target unless there is enough "politics" material to put it all and only into the latter (with a summary sentence and "see..." in the main T&G page). While we're making sense of the page-names, would "Town-gown relations" be a good place to move the current main page? DMacks 01:09, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
I think the current name Town and Gown should be kept (both the article and the name) because that is a phrase in itself--someone might hear such and such about "town and gown", and not know what it is, so they (haha, hopefully) look it up on wikipedia. The name should at least be kept somewhere, because it is a common phrase. Thrasymachus007 08:01, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
I agree that the Town and Gown article should stay. I think that University Town Politics article should be merged into this one. Much of the text, as [[User:Thrasymachus007|Thrasymachus007] says, is nearly exactly the same, and the quality of this article is much better than University Town Politics. --chemica 22:13, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
- I have added an additional examples section to Post-1960s: Changing climate, changing issues secntion. This addition is my suggestion for the merge of the two articles. --chemica 22:47, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
I have removed the merge label and proposed University Town Politics for deletion. --chemica 01:57, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Just change this article's name to "Town & Gown: Yale & New Haven", because it just goes on and on about Yale University and blah blah blah...
[edit] Style
Although this article is very informative, it reads more like a book chapter than an encyclopedia article. Also, if someone could fix the citations, that would be helpful as well. --chemica 22:09, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Univ. of Kentucky section
I fixed some horrible usage and spelling in this section, but I won't get into a possible NPOV war.
Perhaps the previous article writer has an axe to grind... I don't know. However, it is evident to me that:
- Grammar, spelling, and usage were ill-advised in the section pertaining to the situation,
- The term "slumlords" has a specific meaning that connotes that the lessors in the area were deliberately negligent (without facts or sources to promote this point), and
- The dramatic use of phrases such as "This concept had one huge flaw" and "push out the low-income students" edges the entire section towards the viewpoint of a disgruntled student subject to fines for public nuisance violations.
Regardless of whether writer has a point, this place is more than just a gripe board; it's an encyclopedia.
Possible economic motivations for the "slumlords", I mean landlords, could be:
- Cost prohibitive repairs to the neighborhood(s), a result of onerous city regulations, meant that the property would devalue with time, with no great remedy for the owners, since others in the area would be similarly dismotivated to repair;
- The "party school" phenomenon isn't pervasive, but some students nevertheless mistreat the property they occupy during their college studies, causing extesive damage in some cases; and
- Perhaps the lessors truly were cheap misers who desired nothing other than to squeeze every last penny out of those poor, poor students...
Assuming one of these three wasn't a wise move by the previous writer. I have tried my best to "be bold", but I won't get it right the first time through. Please help! 136.165.46.150 04:48, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] UC Berkeley tree sitters
They so need to have a section. 198.144.209.8 12:20, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
