Talk:Toutatis
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The Teutones were not as is stereotypically thought of as the classic nordic/aryan peoples;even though their name has been used to categorise every garmanic tribe . They,along with their allies the cimbri were a tribe of the pre-viking age who shared a common north european celto/germanic culture.Their name,by simple logic suggests they worshipped Teutatis/Toutatis ,the god of the tuath/teuat or"tribe".The many finds in jutland show that the cultures of celtic britain and 'teutonic" denmark were basically the same. (anonymous)
The choice of the spelling invented for Astrerix doesn't fill the reader with confidence. The few instances of the name in literature could all be mentioned, to give us an idea of what the Romans thought this word signified, and a link to at least one discussion of Teutates would inspire confidence. --Wetman 12:33, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
- That's because it is totally untrue that the spelling was invented for Astérix. More than one ancient inscription in Roman Britain or Gaul was dedicated to Toutatis or Mars Toutatis. Outside of Latin literary references, Toutatis is actually the most common spelling. QuartierLatin1968
17:42, 25 August 2006 (UTC) (BTW, Astérix did an unusually good job of historical research here. The phrase 'by Toutatis!' is calqued on the ancient Irish expression 'I swear by the god my tuath swears by', where tuath represents the same Celtic root for 'tribe' that we also find in the god-name Toutatis.)
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[edit] Toutatis/Tîwaz
It seems to me that there is a linguistic similarity between the two above. It might offend Modern mores suggesting that Celtic God and a Germanic one may have the same basis, but they both have common attributes. the "Tis" at the end of the former and the "Ti" are surely cognate? Brendandh 00:26, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Ten Inscriptions
I can find six inscriptions:
- AE 1994, 01120 Little Walsingham
- AE 2001, 01290 Lincolnshire
- AE 2001, 01298 Benwell / Condercum
- CIL 03, 11721 Seggauberg / Solva
- CIL 06, 31182 Roma
- RIB 00219 Barkway
What are the other four?
The online 'roman britain' version of RIB 01017 does not mention IOM. It says 'RIOCALAT ET TOVTAT MAR COCIDO VOTO FECIT VITALIS' and gives the findspot as unknown; inscription in Crosthwaite Museum http://www.roman-britain.org/epigraphy/rib_borders.htm The Clauss-Slaby Epigraphic database, on the other hand, does mention IOM but not Toutatis, and gives Cumberland Quarries as the location: 'I(ovi) O(ptimo) M(aximo) et / M(arti) / Coc(idio) vo/tu(m) feci/[t] Vita/[lis]' I have mailed the author of the 'roman britain' site for clarification.
Why is RIB 1897 mentioned? It has nothing to do with the subject: it says 'DIII LAT' http://www.roman-britain.org/epigraphy/rib_hadrianswall.htm --Nantonos 15:44, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:By-toutatis-asterix.jpg
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BetacommandBot 08:21, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] pronunciation
The modern pronunciation is neither English nor French. Which language is it? — kwami (talk) 07:43, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
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- Don't rush the intellectual race to the bottom! The pronunciation's Gaulish, of course, as it's a Gaulish name – in fact I think the British pronunciation at this time would have been the same as well. By the way, we should indicate phonemes // rather than phones [] because it is quite impossible to know how the phonemes of Gaulish might have been realized in practice. Speakers of English or French can pronounce this name as they please; I assume, however, that most would prefer to know what pronunciation approximates to that of the ancient name. Q·L·1968 ☿ 13:30, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Is Toutatis the same as all these other Celtic Mars-es?
I've noticed that Albiorix, Rigisamos and Caturix all redirect to this page, Toutatis. How can we be certain that these other names are epithets for, or local tribal versions of, Toutatis? After all, Belatucadrus and Camulos were also identified with Mars yet these have separate articles. Nodens is sometimes equated with Mars also. I think it is very arbitrary to suppose that the Interpretatio Romana is the best indicator of two theonyms defining the same deity. What other grounds do you have for subsuming all these theonyms under the umbrella of Toutatis? —Preceding unsigned comment added by G.M.Gladehall (talk • contribs) 18:02, 15 May 2008
- Indeed. We cannot be certain of this, and it would be more prudent to create new articles for each of these epithets presenting the small amount of information we have on each. The procedure by which 'Celtic Mercury' used to be mechanically identified with Lugus, 'Celtic Mars' with Toutatis, and so on, was ill-conceived and should be abandoned. Q·L·1968 ☿ 14:01, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
