Talk:Toussaint Louverture

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Toussaint Louverture was a good article, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Delisted version: Error: invalid time


Contents

[edit] Naming

Very common in the period of the French Revolution:
people were referred to

  • rarely if at all (except among immediate family) by their prénom (given name), like Georges-Jacques [often written in parentheses]; but rather
  • by their nom (family name), like Danton [often written in all capitals]; and
  • quite often by a surnom (epithet) in conjunction with their nom to distinguish them from others of the same family name (like de Douai in Merlin de Douai)

You could thus use surnoms to distinguish Philippe-Antoine MERLIN de Douai from Antoine MERLIN de Thionville). Why do I mention this? Because in Toussaint's case, we have Pierre-Dominique TOUSSAINT Louverture: Toussaint's the family name, Louverture's the surnom. This is the reason why in categories we should alphabetize him under "T". (Roundabout explanation for such a small point, isn't it?) Mind you, his surnom wasn't to distinguish him from another famous Haitian called Toussaint, but in token of an accomplishment in battle. Capois-la-Mort received the same honour. QuartierLatin1968 07:45, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

he was a great guy

he was the best guy i ever researched about :)

The article says he adopted his nickname L'Ouverture as his surname, so what is supposed to be used?--Parkwells (talk) 17:55, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
Narratives contemporary with the period, at least in English, write Toussaint. French historical writings usually, as far as I am familiar with them, Toussaint Louverture. The page as I found it had mixed usage and certainly, one should decide on one or the other according to the best recent historical literature.Nishidani (talk) 10:37, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
I decided to use Toussaint up until he adopted his nickname as his own, then used Toussaint Louverture from then on, so it was not impossible to follow.--Parkwells (talk) 11:52, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Spelling of Name

Since Toussaint Louverture spelled his own name Louverture for many years until his death in 1803, why is his name spelled L'Ouverture on this page? This is also highly inconsistent with much of recent literature.

[edit] Delisted GA

Hi. I have removed this article from the Wikipedia:Good article listing due to the following:

  • No references. One of the GA criteria is that a reference section must be provided. Inline citations are preferred but not required. When this issue has been addressed, please feel free to re-nominate. Thanks! Air.dance 04:06, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] dating discrepancy

I came to this article from the article on Napoleon, where we read:

"In 1803, Bonaparte faced a major setback when an army he sent to reconquer Haiti and establish a base was destroyed by a combination of yellow fever and fierce resistance led by Toussaint L'Ouverture."

However, in this article Toussaint appears to both fail to destroy the army of Bonaparte, and DIES in 1802,

"Over the following months, Toussaint's troops fought against the French but some of his officers defected to join Leclerc. On May 7, 1802, Toussaint signed a treaty with the French in Cap-Haïtien, in condition that there was no return to slavery, and retired to his farm in Ennery. However, after three weeks, Leclerc sent troops to seize Toussant and his family, shipping them to France on board a warship. They arrived in France in July 2. On August 25, 1802, Toussaint was imprisoned in the castle Fort-de-Joux in Doubs. He died of pneumonia in captivity."

So, this appears to be a discrepancy, non? I don't know enough about early 19th century history to know what is correct--I was hoping Wikipedia would have shed light on the subject! Anyone have an idea how to fix this, or does it simply confirm the removal of this from the "good article list?"

The sentence from the Napoleon article is misleading. Although Toussaint did lead the Haitian rebels during the majority of the Revolution, after his capture in 1802 Jean-Jacques Dessalines took over. It was Dessalines who saw the French army defeated in 1803. - Jwillbur 20:05, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] link or info on british losses?

Is there any source? I doubt this. The brits only invaded in 1798, not in 1794 YankeeRoman(24.75.194.50 17:26, 14 December 2006 (UTC))


According to this article, Louverture went from being a slave owner, to being the leader of a war to abolish slavery. The article does not tell us why.

[edit] François-Dominique or Pierre-Dominique?

The Columbia Encyclopaedia, Britannica, Le Robert, the American Heritage Dictionary and Chambers agree with this article that it's François-Dominique, but the 1911 Encyclopaedia, Collins, the National Archives (formerly PRO) and a host of OUP publications call him Pierre-Dominique. Can anyone shed any light? Flapdragon 17:33, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

In trying to research your question online, I came up with an interesting Wikipedia entry. I can't uniquely point to it! Google "toussaint louverture" (same spelling). Select 3rd entry (Toussaint Louverature - TLP) which is not listed as a Wikipedia article. It turns out to be a different Wikipedia biography with the same name! What the devil! (I've seen this sort of thing before BTW). Student7 18:16, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

It's not Wikipedia, it's an unrelated site that uses the same kind of software and thus looks very similar. There are many such wikis which are not Wikipedia but have the same kind of look and feel. Thanks for mentioning it though, perhaps I should ask them. Flapdragon 23:23, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 08:17, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 'The Black Jacobins'

There is a book by CLR James with the above title that is considered a tremendous reference on Louverture and the revolution. There is no reference made to it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.34.158.66 (talk) 20:23, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

Why is this entry subject to to vandalism so often? Just curious. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Belgrade18 (talk • contribs) 00:45, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Awkward English

Evidently some non-native English speaking persons have been editing this page. It needs to be cleaned up before Good Article status can be achieved. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wuapinmon (talk • contribs) 16:08, 5 February 2008 (UTC)