Talk:Tottenham Hotspur F.C.

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To-do list for Tottenham Hotspur F.C.: edit · history · watch · refresh

In an effort to bring this article up to featured status I have added this to-do list to the talk page.

Need Adding:

  • Some historical images.
  • References! (anyone have a history of Spurs book so we can put page refs in?)

Need Expanding:

Need Summarizing:

  • The current season doesn't need to be so long winded, should be broken down and only the key elements are required.

-
All help is much appreciated.
Regards Govvy.
Tottenham Hotspur F.C. is included in the 2007 Wikipedia for Schools, or is a candidate for inclusion in future versions. Please maintain high quality standards, and make an extra effort to include free images, because non-free images cannot be used on the CDs.
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Tottenham Hotspur F.C. was supported by the football article improvement drive, a weekly collaboration to improve association football-related articles to featured article status.


Archive
Archives
Archive1 (Dec 2005 - 11 July 2007)



Contents

[edit] Current 2007-08 season list cup results

They finished fifth and qualified for European cup play. How did they do?Radio Guy (talk) 19:05, 1 January 2008 (UTC) Radio Guy (talk) 19:05, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Unless I have somehow slept through the rest of this season I believe we are at thispoit in time still in the EUFA Cup and at the last 32 after coming second in the Group!Tmol42 (talk) 23:53, 1 January 2008 (UTC) PS. I'm not obsessed with wiki guidlines but by the way the convention is to add new postings at the bottom

[edit] Squad numbers for new signings

Can we have a restriction put on this article, at least until the squad numbers are announced? People keep giving new signings squad numbers that haven't been announced yet. Bluedevil04 18:00, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I'd have to agree it's been very war like. Govvy 21:59, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

How about applying protection or semi-protection to the article to avoid this? Then squad numbers can be added by an administrator when they are confirmed. Steve McSherry (talk) 18:23, 14 July 2007 (GMT)

As can be seen in these photos all players with a confirmed squad number have it on their shirt. Those without a confirmed number (Bent & Kaboul) do not have a shirt number on their training kit yet.

Bale (#16): http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/6960/1750906xo2.jpg
Berbatov (#9): http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/8646/1750940cj3.jpg
Keane (#10): http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/8080/1750943js9.jpg
Defoe (#18): http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/9495/1750936xq4.jpg

Kaboul (no number on kit): http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/1476/1750934na5.jpg
Bent (no number on kit): http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/197/1750908rn4.jpg

This suggests that Bale has officially been given the number 16 while Bent and Kaboul are still to be allocated numbers.

But on this page, [1], it states that Bale's number is still to be chosen. Also, the club has not officially announced his squad number. So I don't think that his number should be added just yet. What are others' opinions on this matter? Bluedevil04 17:06, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
I can't see them putting the number 16 on his training kit since the beginning of pre-season if it was going to change. They haven't put any number on the training kit of Kaboul or Bent and Bent started pre-season training at the same time as Bale so it would seem that Bale will be the number 16 even if they haven't updated the website (which still shows Charlie Lee in the squad with the squad number 38 despite him being released on May 23rd so it's clearly not been updated properly in a while.
Strange that now Bent's 23 and Kaboul's 5 are now listed on the squad section, but Bale's 16 that was on the training pics is not. bluedevil04 talk 04:21, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Loan players list.

Should it not all be on the reserves and academy article extension page? and I am pretty sure there are more loaned out players than listed here!! Govvy 08:39, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vice Captain

Just something simple. Robbie Keane isn't listed a vice captain under the "Current Squad" heading. I was quite suprised. I think it should be added. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.240.201.84 (talk) 14:54, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] External links

Hi all im hoping you can help, i now know that its against the rules to put your own site link on the page sorry i didn't realize :(

Im just wondering weather it would be possible to get it on there, i think that most spurs fans would like to visit the site as we have alot of features, the site is completly non profit so i will be gaining nothing from the link being here however id get pride that my site is listed on such a high profile site such as this.

Please consider my link

Kind regards Adam

Title: Tottenham Hotspur - Spurs forum Description: Tottenham Fansite with a friendly forum, myspace layouts and much more URL: http://www.tottenhamhotspurs.tv —Preceding unsigned comment added by Riverwire (talk • contribs) 09:34, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

The rules clearly state, no fansites allowed. Govvy 14:07, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Who's rules are these as i can see 3 sites that shouldn't be in the external links section ? in other club pages they all have fansites too why not here ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Riverwire (talk • contribs) 12:11, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

See WP:External links. I've also taken out the other external links that I don't think should be included. Thurls 12:59, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] History refs

at some point we should ref what we can for history of the club, players and such from www.tottenhamhotspur.com/index.html need to get these references in, maybe use some cite book refs also. Govvy 08:33, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

I was looking at Manchester Utd article, I think we need to split the history into a few articles like on the Man U article. Govvy 08:37, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

I think that definitely seems the way to go as. One of the first things to be removed from the main article should be the list of former notable players (though the notability of some on there is dubious to say the least), perhaps to something in line with the Manchester United one. Depending on what people think to this, I'll look to make a start this weekend should I have time. Thurls 09:12, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Regarding what makes a player notable, I'd suggest we use the criteria of at least 100 games for Tottenham, and also players who have received an international cap whilst at the club. Clear air turbulence (talk) 21:26, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it's coming to something when John Scales becomes a noted Tottenham player.Northmetpit (talk) 14:22, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Honours

Why are you listing minor pre-seasons tournaments among your trophies? It seems rather desperate. Major clubs like Arsenal don't list the Emirates Cup, Amsterdam Tournament, etc. amongst their Honours section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.36.64.254 (talk) 08:42, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

So why not try something productive and add such tournament wins to the appropriate team pages? Many preseason tournament wins are listed in the Honors section of many EPL teams.--Sesameball 09:18, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Andy Polston

Does anyone have a source that gives Andy Polston's date of birth? If so, could they add it to the article? Thanks! --EH74DK 14:11, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Managers and head coaches list?

Should we remove the caretaker coaches from the list? I personally don't think they should be on it. Govvy 10:41, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree, although may worth looking at what other team pages have done, and what WikiProject on Football recommends. Ralphy (talk) 10:57, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Also agree. I mean, Clive Allen was in charge for just one game! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.178.248.233 (talk) 00:42, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Jewish

Should we add a section on the Jewish ties to Spurs? Maybe mention racism and birth of the Yid army chant? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.90.42.94 (talk) 07:20, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

What happened to the "Yid Army" section ? It should be reinstated. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C.&oldid=164538674#.22Yid_Army.22 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.42.92.212 (talk) 14:03, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Of course the jewish link is a vital part of the clubs history. Some of their fans have proudly flown the isreali flag at their games. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.243.45.71 (talk) 14:43, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

I'd say the article doesn't really need that section, Govvy 08:55, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

What nonsense, of course it does (as long as we can find sources). --86.148.57.131 (talk) 01:02, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
The article definitely does need a section on the club's ties to Jewish culture and, more precisely, the etymological history of "Yid" as it pertains to the Spurs. I can see why some people would be offended by it, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be explained here. This element definitely has a major part to play in Tottenham club culture and the culture of its supporters. BostonFenian (talk) 11:51, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

The Wikipedia page for Dutch football club Ajax FC contains a long section on the club connections with the Jewish community : you can read it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFC_Ajax#References_to_Judaism The Wikipedia page for Tottenham Hotspur should have a similar section as it used to before it was deleted which can be read here in the archive history of this page at this url : http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C.&oldid=164538674#.22Yid_Army.22 Maybe it need to be edited, to match the Ajax approach, can someone with the knowledge do this please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.158.42.175 (talk) 13:42, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I was brought up in Edmonton, went to school in Tottenham and supported Tottenham for 50 years. It is only in the last twenty years this Jewish connection, used as a form of racial abuse has begun. From some of the comments I used to hear it was Arsenal who had the large Jewish following. Can we have some references on this issue? Northmetpit (talk) 11:52, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

It's a bit false saying Tottenham has the largest Jewish backing, when you review each Arsenal, West Ham, Chelsea, Tottenham and even Manchester United you will find each club has a backing by a number of Jewish support, if you look at the chairman for each of these clubs you will find that they are also all Jewish. So to say Tottenham has the biggest Jewish support might not be a correct statement. Govvy (talk) 19:46, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

If you're looking for some sources on this issue, particularly on accusations of anti-semitism, try these from The Guardian, Spiked, Time Out, and JBooks, which also speculates that Arsenal have as many Jewish fans as Spurs. Cordless Larry (talk) 19:56, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

AFC Ajax have a section about there Jewish connections, which also talks about the Jewish connections at Tottenham, something which isn't on the Tottenham page at all. I don't see why a balanced, factual, NPOV section about the club's Jewish connections shouldn't be included, after all it is a relevant part of our history and to effectively sweep it under the carpet is hardly something that should be condoned on Wikipedia. This is meant to be a site which contains factual information it's not here to spread or silence people's religious ideas, therefore the history of Tottenham Hotspur and it's Jewish connections should be reported in a factual way. BigTurnip (talk) 23:48, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Away Support

I posted that tottenham have a poor away following in the supporters section. I cannot understand why it was deleted you visit Everton every year with about 400 odd die hard fans and unless its the 'big four' (that group you tried/trying to break) or another london club spurs fans don't travel. Look at the uefa cup last night as another case in point. If 1.4million is true then where was 0.1% of them last night, 1400, that would have least been an acceptable turn out. For a club that has a fair amount of jewish following surely Israel is the most attractive long distance destination in Europe for your team? I think at the very least if I can't express my view on your support then this 1.4million needs to be cited or backed up with evidence because it's not apparent in the stands. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.135.28.48 (talk) 10:56, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

You do realise there was about 2,500 Tottenham fans at the game against Hapoel Tel Aviv in Israel? I was also at that game!! Govvy 13:54, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I do realise this interesting fact from the tottenham official webiste, "Following today’s meeting in Israel between Club Officials and Hapoel Tel Aviv, we can confirm that we have received a ticket allocation of approximately 700 tickets.

This is in line with our expectations and will satisfy our supporters’ current demand." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.11.76.229 (talk) 13:50, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

That's the allocation of the club for supporters coming from England, arranged via Tottenham. It doesn't result the following of the fans who turn up who live in Israel, nor from other countries who came to see the game. Govvy (talk) 14:38, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Ok, but that doesn't support the statement of Tottenham fans living in the UK to being 1.4million does it? Neither does it support the statement that tottenham fans travel well if they already live in Israel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.11.76.216 (talk) 12:13, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't know how it is counted, there are probably more than stated if you're counting world wide. When I was in Thailand, I saw about 50 people there watching the League Cup Final in one pub alone. So to put any number down would be the wrong thing to do. Govvy (talk) 12:46, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Terry Neill Flag

Anyone know why Terry Neill has the Ulster banner next to his name? The Ulster banner has no official status after 1972 (see [2]) and he was manager in 1974. Ralphy (talk) 10:55, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

This topic crops up frequently elsewhere and has been discussed in the article called Northern Ireland flags issue. The relevant points seem to be that the flag or more correctly the banner is still used by civil organisations including the Northern Ireland Football Team and is registered with FIFA as such. In Wikipedia it is used by nearly all other football articles refeencing NI players and managers with perhaps the best example being Martin O'Neill on the Aston Villa F.C. page. Tmol42 (talk) 18:13, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
Ah, fair enough. Thanks for the explanation. Ralphy (talk) 20:16, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

There has been a lot of vandalism on this page. Please may it stop. Ashe613 (talk) 09:19, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Nothing too major, but if it does get fairly bad we can always stick the page on semi protect. Govvy (talk) 17:13, 7 January 2008 (UTC)


[edit] The Angels

Going back to the 60s Glory Years.Does anyone out there remember a group of fans known as the Angels ? .They were allowed to parade around the perimeter of the White Hart Lane pitch dressed in white heavenly outfits before floodlit European games.One of them that springs to mind held a placard proclaiming BBC for sport.Did it really happen? Your memories please Northmetpit (talk) 16:39, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hall of fame

I'm confused:

The article says there have been 24 hall of fame inductees, the latest of which is Martin Chivers. Underneath that statement is a list of 24 players, Martin Chivers isn't one of them!either he hasn't been and it's the wrong name or the number should say 25 and his name needs adding! Which is it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.33.134.118 (talk) 13:38, 30 January 2008 (UTC)


Good spot! There are 26 members of the HoF. Have added Willie Hall and Martin Chivers Tmol42 (talk) 21:57, 30 January 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Arthur Grimsdell

I thought it was a bit sad that Arthur Grimsdell one of our 'Legends' was the only Hall of Fame entrant not to have his page so have added one. It needs some refinement and adding of one or two references etc from some excellent external links from which I drew material which I will add in, in due course Tmol42 (talk) 19:10, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Stats 2007-08

I have adjusted the season stats to include performances for Martin Jol and overall 2007-8 to date. Table format could be improved but not yet sure how to do this yet! Meantime welcome any comments happy to revert if consensus prefers previous content Tmol42 (talk) 22:20, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Peter Baker (footballer) – calling all Spurs fans

Just a 'Heads Up' about the discussion and proposal with the above heading on the following page [3]. In brief the proposal is to change the article title for Peter Baker (footballer) this has arisen because there is a second Peter Baker (born 1934) who was for a short time an amateur for Spurs around the time the first team regular Peter Baker (born 1931) also started his career. Following the discussion on whether to change the article name this has been progressed to a polling to be found at [4] Tmol42 (talk) 12:08, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Current seasons/ Recent Seasons

Would it be worth giving these their own page and linking them? Just that these two bodies of text occupy a large chunk of the history, when really they are only 2-3 years. --Blinkjim (talk) 22:21, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree we need to do something about them they have turned more into a blog and are as you say very long and unbalance the article. A quick look around other Premiership sides also indicates the format is not one others have adopted generally. I am not sure if having a series on individual pages describing specific seasons fits with the Football WikiProject guidelines or if its the only / optimum way forward anyway. I will go and do some checking and feedback here. In any case mid season is not the time to make a change particularly given the hyper interest in Spurs at the present. Tmol42 (talk) 22:40, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Follow up on article content and style. The typical approach is to include within one or more 'History of the Club' pages. These tend to group 5-10 year periods or more normally notable 'eras' of the club. Some good Premiership examples include History of Liverpool F.C., History of Manchester City F.C., History of Everton F.C. and from the Championship History of Ipswich Town F.C.. If one were to continue with the year by year approach then the most comprehensive approach and requiring a large amount of dedicated work by several editors I should add, is possibly History of Manchester United F.C. (1999-present). Whatever approach there is a fair amount of work invoved. What do others who may have been regularly editing / developing new content on this page and probably for longer than I have, think? Tmol42 (talk) 10:50, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 2005/06 season

A reference clearly needs to be made to the fact this was such an incredibly short season consisting of just 40 games as this is undoubtedly of note (as well as a useful overall and to the point summary of the season). Maybe someone else can write it seeing as my version is unacceptable for some reason. --Shakehandsman (talk) 22:49, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't see that as particularly noteworthy or useful overall Stephenb (Talk) 08:05, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
As the individual who reverted these edits I was of the view they were not notable currently and historically nor in the way it was written was it even a new/ worthy insight Tmol42 (talk) 12:13, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Length

This article, while enjoyable to read, is just too long, especially the sections about specific seasons. --138.49.19.84 (talk) 15:10, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 2007/08 season - Jol's Departure

Would it be best to move this part of the 07/08 (specificly the events surronding Jol's departure) to either a new page or to the page on Martin Jol. Although Relevent, its cluttering up the page where it is --Blinkjim (talk) 16:35, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] pre season honours.

Do we really need to list those on the article? I am rather inclined to remove them. Govvy (talk) 10:53, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Agree, non of these are worthy of retention in this section. I would not find a one sentence reference to the club's participation at the end of the relevant season report out of place.Tmol42 (talk) 22:37, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
Well I removed them because I didn't think they impact on the article at all. They don't look impressive either! Govvy (talk) 18:17, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] All Hallows Church....where?

I was thinking to wikilink this but which one? Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 07:13, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I have been dubious about this connection with All Hallows in this particular context in the earliest / inaugural period of the club's history for a while. if you read some of the local history of the Tottenham area it points to a connection between the ex Grammar school boys plus those attending the Presbyterian school known as 'Mr Cameron's' which was also known as St John's Middle Class School which was Scottish Presbyterian rather than C of E. See http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=22125&strquery=St.%20John's%20Middle-Class%20Sch. There is a reference to the support provided in the early days by the Rev Wilson Vicar of Tottenham see http://www.spurshistory.com/pages/12.htm Tmol42 (talk) 10:52, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Luka Modric

Something about this transfer —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.94.92.190 (talk) 11:39, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

The transfer is mentioned in the 2007-08 Season section. Cordless Larry (talk) 11:42, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Modric passed the medical exam [5] and is now pending work permit which is a petty formality since he played constantly for the Croatian national team through the qualifications. It's a done deal. The only other thing is the number on his shirt, Luka took a picture holding a shirt with #14 on the back[6] but it is questionable wheter he will indeed wear this number.--Footbalista (talk) 15:07, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

That still doesn't mean that the transfer is complete. Take a look at the Spurs squad page and you'll see he's not listed yet. Cordless Larry (talk) 16:36, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Most clubs do not list new players until the next season begins so with or without work permit he wouldn't be listed there anyway. --Footbalista (talk) 02:18, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

I would have to agree with Cordless Larry, and I thought a work permit is only required for non-EU British residents. Govvy (talk) 19:27, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, which Modrić is as a Croatian national so we should await the work permit decision. Cordless Larry (talk) 09:19, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
I've said my piece on this already over at The Talk page for Luka Modric along the lines of Corldess Larry and Govvy but on the Work Permit question it is needed for anyone with citizenship outside the EU or EEA wanting to work in the UK. For footballers there are detailed rules on eligibility and I recall but cannot quote there have been some players (clubs) who have come unstuck and had permits refused or delayed and so it is certainly not petty or trivial as the British Home Office does not do 'Petty' or 'Trivial' which is a tad disingenuous.Tmol42 (talk) 19:53, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
The condition for non-EU citizens is that the player is a constant and that he played over 75% of the games in the last year, since Luka Modric played most if not all the games for Croatia in the last qualification round it is 101% sure he will be granted work permit, also Tottenham already signed the 6-year deal with him. It's over, now why would we be stuck on these petty things when we all know it's a done deal? --Footbalista (talk) 02:18, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

To save this discussion going on in parallel in two places, can any further comments be made at Talk:Luka Modrić‎ instead of here? Cordless Larry (talk) 07:50, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Manager Stats for Season / Season accounts

A couple of proposals for the layout of the article and its associated sub pages on which I am inviting comment.

At the end of this season ( after the Liverpool match) I am proposing that the manager stats for the 2007/08 season are moved to Tottenham Hotspur F.C. season 2007-08 which this year has been newly developed into a excellent source of valuable and up to date stats and info on the season thanks in particular to work by Prem4eva. Going forward for 08/09 season onwards the manager stats would then be added and updated on Tottenham Hotspur F.C. season 2008-09 which is in preparation already and so on with successor season pages. This provides a more appropriate home for the stats and consistency in how information is ordered.

The above mentioned 07/08 Season page also includes a properly referenced and appropriately weighted account of the notable events over the year which I expect will be the case for 2008/09 and so on. The account of recent seasons on the main page has become increasingly unwieldy. At times it has become a battle ground for fly-by edits from IP address editors who have seen it as a blog site as well as the inevitable puerile edits by vandals. As the respective season pages is where this information could be better supervised it would seem appropriate to reserve the Main Page for the major/ notable events:- Arrivals / departures, achievements in Cups and League etc. Looking at other Prem sides the better articles IMHO are the ones which structure events around the era of a particular manager ( not something we could emanate at the moment, I know!) or other themes. If there is some support for this from regular editors then I thought the season break would allow for this to be worked on when the amount of other changes will be minimal. Thoughts PleaseTmol42 (talk) 13:50, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree, the stats are only for the 2007/8 season, and the season page is for the 2007/8 season, so it definitely should be on the season page from what I see 82.45.216.154 (talk) 17:19, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

As per above manager stats for the 2007 - 08 season have been transferred to Tottenham Hotspur F.C. season 2007-08 Tmol42 (talk) 16:32, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 2006-07 Season content.

Maybe we need an article for that and we could expand on it. As for this season, the content needs to be cut down and it should stick to the key points. It looks a bit long winded atm. Govvy (talk) 16:59, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, we could do with merging what's here for this season into Tottenham Hotspur F.C. season 2007-08, and just having a brief summary here. The 2006-07 info could then move to Tottenham Hotspur F.C. season 2006-07. Cordless Larry (talk) 20:29, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
I made the Tottenham Hotspur F.C. season 2006-07 page so the named seasons on spurs' page all have their own seasons now, so it can be cleaned up a bit easier now, if need be. Prem4eva (talk) 22:20, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ribbons on the cup 1901 myth

It is stated on the article that Tottenham were the first side to tie ribbons on the F A cup in 1901 but this is simply not the case. There is a very famous team photograph of Nott's County's 1894 cup winners posing with the cup in 1894, complete with black and white ribbons tied on. This is the first occasion that the cup was so decorated, although there is no record of anyone following County's example before Spurs. The pic is in this link http://www.nottscountyfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/HistoryDetail/0,,10426~1028230,00.html I am therefore editing the 1901 claim. Captainbeecher (talk) 19:13, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

It has nothing to do with other clubs, it's about Tottenham dignitaries and Spurs tradition. Govvy (talk) 19:40, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

The fact remains that this article claims the tradition of ribbons on the cup was started by Tottenham when the evidence provided proves that this is not the case. Captainbeecher (talk) 20:32, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I look at that image of Notts County with the cup, I don't see any ribbons on it, I only see a scarf. Govvy (talk) 20:42, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] References

Has the article really been written using all 30 of the books listed in the References section? (Strange that there is not a single in-line citation attributed to any of them). Or has someone just mindlessly added loads of different Spurs books to the list? --Jameboy (talk) 12:22, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I am not sure about that, I remember that list of books being fairly old in wiki terms, the list is good as further reading, ect. But it really should be used in citation with the article. I got one of the books around somewhere, but I've been lazy on this front. Govvy (talk) 16:23, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cian Hughton - AfD

Have added Cian Hughton on the AfD list, he hasn't played a pro game. We should not create articles for Spurs youth members until they have played at least one professional game or at least has had nationwide media coverage. Govvy (talk) 15:28, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Player of the Year

Someone recently added a list of Players of the Year. It was not formatted well so looked a mess and has now hung around for a few days. There were two options delete or clean up. I was inclined to opt for the former but in the spirit of collaboration choose the latter as it at least will allow others to decide if it is notable and worthy of inclusion and if so improve it or alternatively do we have too many lists of players on this page and it needs to be canned? The section also needs a reference which I could not find on the THFC page so can someone provide a citation if it exists.Tmol42 (talk) 23:21, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Noted Former Players

Follow on from the last posting. The Notable Former Players section in my view lacks consistency and is in danger of getting longer and longer as another inevitable summer clear out occurs in the next few weeks. There are amongst the clearly notable players a significant number whose claim to fame is questionable / marginal having made no lasting and memorable contribution to the club. I'll name no names but should we reduce this down to be in keeping with the Club template which offers the following guideline "Noted players of the club, who have had a major impact on the club's history. The section should use external sources for the list, not the personal opinions of editors" To avoid an edit war we could copy the list here and have an ordered debate, try and agree criteria and get some consensus as to a list.Tmol42 (talk) 23:21, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree. Players such as Reto Ziegler didn't make a notable enough contribution to the club to be in this list. It might be difficult to copy the list here and comment on it though, since it's so long. Cordless Larry (talk) 14:37, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Yeah I agree, there are a lot of players on there that weren't too involved and there are some notable players that aren't on there, for example a few days ago someone removed Neil Sullivan but kept players like helder postiga, neil sullivan was the first choice keeper for three years and postiga was a bit part striker for one, strange inconsistency there, so it definitely needs a major overhaul —Preceding unsigned comment added by Prem4eva (talk • contribs) 16:01, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Maybe we could suggests players to remove from the list here, and any that should be added? When we reach consensus, we can then make the required changes to the list itself. Cordless Larry (talk) 16:15, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
to be fair, before the 2000's the list seems pretty solid, all the players have high appearances or a big contribution but after 2000 it gets pretty ambigious, after a quick look and think: Out:- Øyvind Leonhardsen, Simon Davies, Christian Ziege, helder postiga, reto zeigler, pedro mendes, mido. In: Gary Stevens, Mark Falco, Justin Edinburgh, Ruel Fox, Ramon Vega, Neil Suillivan, of course there could be more but thats just a quick list to get us started Prem4eva (talk) 17:26, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
If you want a quick look up of appearances / international performances have a look at List of Tottenham Hotspur F.C. players . I must of admit i've committed the same sin myself there in including a few near do wells who spent a season or two at the club but also played international football. Perhaps indicative of a club scrambling to get into the top four by buying big names who can't settle or deliver from one manager to the next. Anyhow it might be of use and if you think the criteria here need to be tightened up say so I'm not proud!Tmol42 (talk) 22:20, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Tmol42's comment is useful because it brings up the issue of the distinction between a notable player and a player who made a notable contribution at Spurs. Edgar Davids is clearly in the former category, but perhaps not the latter, for example. Are we aiming for a list of all Spurs players who have had notable careers, or players notable for their Spurs careers? Cordless Larry (talk) 22:29, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Agree with all but one of the suggestions from Prem4eva query Simon Davies who made 140+ apps plus played for Wales 24 times and did cut a dash down the wing and got the crowd going in his early days at least. I would relegate Gheorghe Popescu on appearances (28) ditto John Scales (33) more notable at Wimbledon and what about Jamie Rednapp only 44app who made his name at Liverpool and with his off the pitch activity / celebrity life/wife and having a larger than life Dad but wasn't he Captain for a while (my gray cells are not working)! But then that's all subjective so would we base it on appearances plus some one off reasons ( which the MoS would say we should cite!). There are a few more pre 1990 players who in their time made a name at Spurs and banged in a large number of steady but not spectacular appearances to boot e.g....Steve Sedgley, Pat Van Den Hauwe, Paul Walsh, There are a few heroes from the 1950s backwards who put in 150-200+ appearances over several years and who are missing but I guess were before our collective times but clearly were major players for the club. Tmol42 (talk) 23:32, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I see what you're saying about simon davies, (and i think i remember redknapp as captain for a while, even in a nlb if i remember right) it is a very, very hard section to fill out, thinking about it now, the only way to please everyone without a world war is to take out the stonewall non-notable career-wise and non-notable app-wise, like your ziegler's and mido's...With players like Davids, i think they are notable because they are such renown footballers, for example, like when big players are listed as notable on the pages of the smaller clubs or academies, the player didn't really affect them during his time, but because he affected world football in a big way later on and for a time was a X club player, he is a notable player in the history of football and was once at X club so he can be notable for them (that seemed simpler when i thought about it, hopefully you get what i'm saying)...for the adding of new players, people can/will always challenge, but basic requirements should be notable career/or modest career but with tottenham achievement (e.g. scoring winning goal in major competition) or big number of appearances, but as we all know, it is a very hard section. Prem4eva (talk) 01:02, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Addition of players to squad section

A number of IP and newly registered editors are repeatedly adding players to the current squad section before their transfers to Spurs are complete. Is it worth asking for the article to be protected, because this is getting a bit ridiculous? Cordless Larry (talk) 14:00, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I feel if we can deal with the edits by reverting them okay, then it's not needed, but it is depending how much bad editing is being done. Govvy (talk) 21:08, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
If you take a look at the page history, it's happening a lot. Cordless Larry (talk) 21:12, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Agree its getting awfully tedious and depending on when we think they will all be cleared...03 Jul? ... I think we could do with some strategy as I am loosing patience and am likely to be less polite than I should be. Sorry I'm a bit naive on this but does a semi-protect do anything to stop unregistered IPs? Tmol42 (talk) 22:10, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Semi-protect would stop editing by unregistered and new editors. I'm going to propose that the article be semi-protected. Cordless Larry (talk) 22:11, 8 June 2008 (UTC)