Talk:Total Chaos

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[edit] ENGLISH Programming Language

I would dearly love to hear about this new programming language that has been included in Total Chaos: The Newbie Edition. It sounds amazing, like something a poor girl like me could actually understand! Could someone write about it please? GreatGianaSister 04:27, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Me too! StoneGiant 12:07, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Amiga virtual machines"

I am removing this reference here, and on the Team Chaos page, because:

  • "Amiga virtual machine" is a made up term that someone appears to have been trying to popularise through Wikipedia.
  • The Amiga virtual machine article was proposed for deletion and now redirects to 68k - having a link to 68k doesn't make sense.
  • Even if we said "Amiga emulator", which is the widespread term for this concept, I still feel it is redundant - obviously if a piece of software runs of platform X, it will also run on a 100% emulator of platform X! Are we going to change every single software article on Wikipedia to say they will also run on emulators (or virtual machines) of the relevant platforms? What's so special about Total Chaos, and other games by Team Chaos?
  • Also it starts to confuse matters, e.g., the system requirements - are these for the Amiga, or one of the other platforms listed? If I have a Windows PC with "Amiga virtual machine" installed, can I play this game with only 16MB installed? I doubt it.

Also see Talk:Amiga_virtual_machine. Mdwh 23:59, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Protect themselves

How will Artic wolves protect/defend itself from attackers?

They defend the same as all the other monsters do. It is their attack that is different. They love to rip the legs off of their victims which probably is a bit painful. GreatGianaSister 04:22, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

If you want to protect an Arctic Wolf from attackers you could try one of the following:
  • Run away.
  • Cast a Cloak spell on it.
  • Cast a Reflector spell on it.
  • Cast an Invulnerability spell on it.
  • Cast a Hide spell on it. Then it will disappear into the Ethereal Dimension. LOL! It can't attack while it is disappeared but it is 100% protected like you asked.
  • Cast a Lich spell on it. This will GUARANTEED prevent living creatures from attacking it. Undeads can still attack it though.
  • Cast a Fly spell on it and then hide it behind some walls. This will protect your Arctic Wolf from being attacked by land creatures, assuming there is no pathway around the wall. If there is a way around the wall then the enemy creatures will attempt to circle around and get you. And make sure there are no holes in the wall.
  • Cast a Recover Boost spell on it. It will still get attacked as usual 'but' it will heal from its wounds at a greatly accellerated rate.
  • StoneGiant 12:47, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikify

The 'rules of the game' section needs stripping out and replacing with a general section on gameplay, as per WP:NOT#Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information and WP:TONE. I'll work on that at some point if no-one else does. Marasmusine 08:09, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge with Team Chaos

The Team Chaos page only discuss this game, and makes no claim of notability on its own. Marasmusine 08:17, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

The Team Chaos page disusses 6 different games and makes claim of notability on its own. Your idea is rejected on the grounds that it is pure nonsense. GreatGianaSister 13:53, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Firstly, that's six Chaos games, and I propose that Total Chaos be used to discuss the whole series. Secondly, there's nothing on Team Chaos that asserts the groups notability, as per Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies). I'd like the opinion of more experienced Wikipedia editors before it is rejected, thankyou. Marasmusine 21:11, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

REJECT Marasmusine has clearly never even played the game, judging by the false statements he sneaked into the article. Which I was forced to undo. p.s. who cares if all their games have the word "chaos" in the title? I mean so what?SuperfrogJumps 03:27, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

It's courtesy to leave a merge tag up for a period of time so that other users can have chance to discuss it, so please stop being disruptive. You're both new users and I presume fans of the game, so perhaps you can help by locating the new homepage for the game - the link on this article is broken. Also noticed that the 'ratings' section in the infobox should not say 'Good'; it is for ESRB ratings so should say 'N/A'. FYI I have played Total Chaos on the Amiga in the late 90s, and also the original on the ZX Spectrum. Marasmusine 09:30, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
It's courtesy to refrain from making up false reasons for a merge tag, so please stop being disruptive. Thank you. SuperfrogJumps 23:54, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

REJECT Total Chaos is about a turn-based strategy computer game with virtual cards and a virtual board. Team Chaos is about a group of people who design games and which games those are. I will make it simple for you: Total Chaos = game. Team Chaos = people. Total Chaos is an inanimate object and Total Chaos did not create any computer games. Team Chaos has created 6 games so far, one of which was Total Chaos. StoneGiant 21:19, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi. If this article is for one specific Total Chaos, which is it? Of the six games listed on Team Chaos, four are called Total Chaos (with various sub-titles). The release dates in the infobox on this article range from 1986 to 2007, which suggest the whole series, although I suppose that could be another hallucination. Thankyou for any clarification. Marasmusine 22:55, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

BTW: The Total Chaos: xxx games won't even run on the Amiga 500, Amiga 1000, Amiga 1500, Amiga 2000, Amiga 2500 or Amiga 3000 proving that they are totally different games from other Team Chaos productions such as Chaos: Wizard War II which does run on those machines. Furthermore Chaos: Wizard War II runs on the Fellow AVM but Total Chaos cannot. SuperfrogJumps 02:42, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Do you happen to know which of the Total Chaos games this article is about? Your argument is that all the games in the series are completely different, and StoneGiant said above that this article is about one game in this series. But Team Chaos have made four games called 'Total Chaos', and the release dates in this infobox range from 1986 to present (and have done since StoneGiants orginial draft.) The 1986 release would be Chaos: Return of the Wizards, right?
As for the games running on different platforms, that's not too much of a problem; look at how the Sangokushi article handles it. Those games do vary quite a bit, but they still form a series across different platforms. Marasmusine 08:52, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Retro Gamer reference

As we have a WP:Verifiability policy, I am using the Retro Gamer article as a reference for the "slanderous statements" that I added. Let me describe it in a bit more detail:

This is Retro Gamer volume 2, issue 1; page "Creating Chaos", page 48 to 53.

"Dan Whitehead chats to Julian Gollop, creator of Chaos and the Godfather of computer strategy gaming...".

Page 53, box-out called "Remaking Chaos".

With its broad scope, but simple design, Chaos was always an obvious choice for homebrew retroheads looking to stretch their coding skills. It's no surprise then that there are several freeware attempts to update the game for the modern PC floating around like croutons in cybersoup. Here's a rundown of the best, and what you can expect when you download.

Followed by descriptions of Anarchy, Total Chaos, and Chaos Funk. The Total Chaos box-out is here.

MarašmusïneTalk 21:34, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Use some common sense. When they said "freeware", "for the modern PC" and "remake" they were obviously referring to Anarchy and Chaos Funk. Total Chaos is NOT "for the modern PC", not "freeware" and not a "remake" of Spectrum Chaos. Total Chaos clearly states what it is a remake of and it is not Spectrum Chaos. The games known as Anarchy and Chaos Funk both clearly state in their instructions that they are remakes of Spectrum Chaos.70.132.139.84 03:00, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Okay. Let me guide you through this step by step:

  1. We only report what is reported in reliable sources.
  2. Here is a scan of p51 of the Retrogamer article "Creating Chaos", which is an interview with Julian Gollop about the ZX Spectrum Chaos. This is actually the only reliable source that Total Chaos is mentioned in (yes I know it's not the same game).
  3. The "Remaking Chaos" box-out is on the right-hand side, starting with the text I quoted above.
  4. Total Chaos is the second item in that list. Note that Reference #5 in our article is an enlarged scan of this.
  5. Therefore a reliable source has explicitly described Total Chaos as a Chaos remake. As I mentioned, this source is the only independent, reliable source this article has, so it is important to note what has actually been said in this source.
  6. In what way is citing a reliable source WP:COI or WP:OR? You are not assuming good faith.
  7. If you already have the magazine and you still want say Total Chaos has nothing to do with Chaos, why do you think that Retrogamer thought to talk about Total Chaos amongst a list of other Chaos remakes, in a box-out called "Remaking Chaos" in an article about Chaos and its follow-ups? Just randomly placed game reviews?

MarašmusïneTalk 07:18, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Hello, I am new here and I don't want to get into this whole argument you people are having... I just would like to say that in your point #7 you hit the nail on the head when you said "follow-ups". Has it ever occurred to you that they consider Total Chaos to be a "follow-up" or "sequel" to Chaos? Heck, maybe they even WROTE "Other games similar to Chaos" or "Remakes and Sequels of Chaos" then the editor chopped it down to make it fit in smaller space? I worked at a magazine and the editor did such things as this regularly, sometimes causing much annoyance to the writers. Some editors think copping a few words here and there is harmless but sometimes it creates falseness. :(

I know that nobody cares about my opinion but hey... I give it to you anyways. :) I could never consider Total Chaos as a remake of Chaos. The gameplay is just totally different. Sure there are similarities but ALL boardgames have similarities. I could perhaps consider Total Chaos to be a sequel to Chaos... maybe... not really... but maybe. :)

I have played both of these games and plenty of others... and no way Hosea is Total Chaos a "remake" of Chaos.

Ok, thank you for taking some time to read me. Have a nice day. :)

Thank-you, thank-you, thank-you, for a sane response! Since the Retrogamer writer used the words "update" in the "remaking chaos" lead text and again in the paragraph describing Total Chaos, I'll use that wording instead of "remake". Marasmusine 16:44, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
Okay, reworded that section and moved down to a "critical response" section, your comments appreciated. It's about as close I can get to describing the Retro Gamer article without copying it word for word. Since it is talked about in an article about Chaos, you can't deny that it at least needs mentioning. Thanks, Marasmusine 17:01, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
My own "original research" appears to be the observation that Total Chaos contains the entire spell-set of Chaos, not just generic spell names, but some very specific spells and effects such as spreading Gooey Blob, Magic Wood for new spells, Turmoil, etc; if you've played both games you'll know what I mean. Marasmusine 17:12, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
It may be true in 2007 that Total Chaos happens to contain all the same spellnames as Chaos but it was not true back in 1996 when I heavily played the game and investigated this. Over the years, as new spells were added, more and more spellnames from chaos appeared inside Total Chaos. More and more spellnames which appear in Archon, The Chronicles of Narnia, Ultima and The Bible also began appearing in Total Chaos. All those sources predate chaos. Gooey Blob and Turmoil also predate chaos. 71.154.242.101 19:58, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
71.154.242.101 has made some very good points! StoneGiant 12:04, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Total Chaos is not a remake of Spectrum Chaos

  • FACT: The gameplay is completely different.
  • FACT: The spellcasting system is completely different.
  • FACT: The combat system is completely different.
  • FACT: The user interface is completely different.
  • FACT: The OS is completely different.
  • FACT: The hardware is completely different.
  • FACT: The design teams were completely different.
  • FACT: They were each designed in completely different nations.
  • FACT: The music is completely different.

GreatGianaSister 01:40, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

I hereby certify the above facts stated by GreatGianaSister to be true and correct. Total Chaos is not a remake of Spectrum Chaos.StoneGiant 11:59, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
That... doesn't actually mean anything, you're not a reliable source! Both my opinion and your opinion are irrelevant. Did I mention WP:V and WP:Reliable sources? Marasmusine 15:37, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
Please re-read the opening sentence of WP:Verifiability. Also, I have changed the phrase 'remake of Chaos' to 'update of Chaos' to exactly match the Retro Gamer article. Marasmusine 07:42, 12 August 2007 (UTC)