Talk:Toshiko Sato

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[edit] IPA please

Could someone who is familiar with IPA add the pronouciation for Toshiko Sato and her nickname (TOsh, not Toh-sh)? Thanks. --GracieLizzie 13:44, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually is it just me or is the Tosh nickname pronouciation a pretty bad mangling given how her name should be pronouced under the rules of Japanese pronouciation? Shouldn't it be "toh-she-ko sa-toh"? --GracieLizzie 13:52, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks Smurrayinchester ^_^. --GracieLizzie 14:32, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm familiar with Japanese and the IPA, so... firstly, I don't understand why the Japanese is rendered using トシ子 for Toshiko - the first two symbols are generally used for foreign words, or emphasis, and indicate pronunciation (katakana). The second is a kanji (former Chinese character) for 'ko', correctly, but these two types of writing are not usually mixed. However, this is how it is on the website referenced in the article, so I don't propose changing it. 'Toshiko' is more properly written in kanji as 敏子 (toshi-ko) and in hiragana (a script indicating Japanese pronunciation) as としこ (to-shi-ko). Also (linguist's hat on now) GracieLizzie is right that 'Tosh' is a bit weird, since to English-native ears, Japanese 'Toshiko' would sound like 'to-she-ko' or just 'toeshko'. However, it's still possible as in English there is a rule that says that long vowels such as the last in 'photo' can become like the vowel in 'Tosh', i.e. in 'photography', the second vowel of 'photo' is now both shortened and pronounced differently (tenseness). When English words containing so-called 'long' vowels are abbreviated, this results in 'shortening'. Think of how the north-east of England word 'charva' is shortened to 'chav' - the vowels differ in length and tongue position. Jsteph 05:03, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unsourced statement

Both she and Harkness have met the Ninth Doctor, but it is uncertain whether they are aware of the other's meeting with him.

SOURCE?????????? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.137.228.2 (talk • contribs) 05:51, November 6, 2006 (UTC)

You can observe so by simply watching the shows. Toshiko meets him in Aliens of London, Jack obviously is a former companion, and they haven't been shown to ask each other "Hey did you ever meet a Northern guy with big ears and with massive alien expertise who wears a leather jacket?" so we can tell the above statement is true because of these observations. --GracieLizzie 10:08, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kiss citation

I wasn't sure how to cite Toshi's kiss with the blonde woman, but it's from the HD trailer. You can see it at YouTube here, but of course that's a copyvio. Anyone know when or where that originally aired? —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 18:41, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

That would be Mary from 'Greeks Bearing Gifts', episode 7. 77.98.7.142 (talk) 17:12, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Looking for a woman"

Would anyone mind if we lost this? After all, we now have much better evidence of her sexuality, and it's completely obvious she's talking about trying to find Carys. Daibhid C 15:33, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Validity of Statements

Why is the Torchwood website being used on this page, (and other Torchwood pages for that matter), as 'proof' of facts - surely its place in the canon is subject to question as tie-in novels are for Doctor Who, for example? It is a website made for the fans, not something seen in the programme. It really shouldn't be offered as proof of facts. Wolf of Fenric 00:06, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, I see what you mean but it is produced by the BBC themselves... and is the source for most of our information. The canonicity comment should be included I suppose but I do consider the Torchwood.org as close to canon as the spin-off media can get if you ask me.--GracieLizzie 00:14, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Her name in Japanese

"Toshiko" is written as "トシ子" on the Torchwood site [1], and I'm unaware of any source where her name is rendered as "俊子". Either is a plausible way to write "Toshiko" in Japanese, but the first is semi-canonical, and the second (so far as I can tell) is not. With respect to Jsteph's comments, it's fairly common for a female Japanese given name to consist of a couple of syllables in katakana followed by "-ko" ("子") in kanji. 202.94.132.16 15:43, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks 202.94.132.16, and yes it is not uncommon at all. In fact a Google search seems to bring up a few genuine 佐藤トシ子's the lady in the yellow apron on the last photo on this page appears to write her name 佐藤トシ子 for example. --GracieLizzie 19:18, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Whoops, and yes, the anonymous user above is right, at least about the name 'Toshiko' and names ending -ko generally. とし子, partially in hiragana, is also possible, but not for this character. Jsteph (talk) 05:00, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Link to "Aliens of London"

Is it ever actually established that the "Doctor Sato" listed in the credits of Aliens of London is really Toshiko? Although the two characters are played by the same actress, the same was true of Freema Agyeman when she played Adeola Oshodi (Martha Jones' cousin) in Army of Ghosts. Is it not possible that "Doctor Sato" could just be a relative of Toshiko's? – PeeJay 21:58, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Naoko suggests a "may or may not be her" explanation. We'll assume in the meantime, as websites like DigitalSpy have done. There could also be a time travel explanation.[1]~ZytheTalk to me! 20:06, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
FYI, assumptions are somewhat against Wiki policy. – PeeJay 23:36, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
You're misinterpreting what I've done. I'm just saying, it's ASSUMING either way to posit they aren't either. DigitalSpy, Naoko Mori, Doctor Who Magazine and other sources have taken to treat them as one character in interviews and bios, so that will suffice until they decide to elaborate/retcon her character.~ZytheTalk to me! 18:12, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
I think it's now fairly clear that Doctor Sato and Toshiko are two different people. Working as a medical doctor, meeting the Doctor and seeing an alien for the first time don't fit into what we know of her timeline (ie being arrested and held by UNIT, offered a job by Jack etc).

If Doctor Who Magazine states that it's the same character, that's a reliable source and we should go by that. -Trampikey(talk)(contribs) 23:53, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Has since been corrected on-screen, and fixed in the article - Weebiloobil (talk) 21:26, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Interesting Note

When Toshiko's mother talked in Japanese, she didn't talk in Osaka-ben...she talked in Tokyo-ben. Which throws some doubt whether her parents were really from Osaka. Toshiko, herself, also uses Tokyo-ben.

Oh and this should be updated to the latest two episodes where Toshiko asks Owen out on a date, confesses she loves him, get pushed back by Owen, and then gets kissed by him.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 19:23, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

I disagree. An actor using an incorrect dialect for a foreign language usually just means that the actor/writer made a mistake. For example, Ando in Heroes has a horrible Japanese accent and it's obvious that he's not a native speaker (as the actor is Korean) or even fluent in the language. Nevertheless, the character is most certainly from Japan. EvilCouch (talk) 01:50, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
It's about dialects, rather than if she's Japanese. The article states she's from Osaka, but the times she speaks Japanese and her mother speaks Japanese it's never Osaka-ben. It's just a note, no harm in that.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 02:14, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Birth Date Query

Can someone clear up Tosh's birth date? In her small biog on the right it states her birth date is 18 September 1981 but under Character History it is stated she is born in the UK in July 1975. Which is it? Brucie76 (talk) 11:29, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Well She's Dead!!

I Cried like a little girl, i love her so much. :( tom smith 22:21, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

So did I, but, unfortunately, this is a place to discuss the article, not mourne her death. But it was sad, yes, sadder than Owen's - Weebiloobil (talk) 21:27, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fictional Vegetarians

Where does it say this? Why is she in this category? Andral (talk) 06:04, 5 April 2008 (UTC)