Talk:Torture and the United States

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[edit] Citation

This artical in general shows a lack of citation in general.

Eg:

"These practices include: extended forced maintenance of "stress positions" such as standing or squatting; psychological tricks and "mind games"; sensory deprivation; exposure to loud music and noises; extended exposure to flashing lights; prolonged solitary confinement; denigration of religion; withholding of food, drink, or medical care; withholding of hygienic care or toilet facilities; prolonged hooding; forced injections of unknown substances; sleep deprivation; magneto-cranial stimulation resulting in mental confusion; threats of bodily harm; threats of rendition to torture-friendly states or Guantánamo; threats of rape or sodomy; threats of harm to family members; threats of imminent execution; prolonged constraint in contorted positions (including strappado, or "Palestinian hanging"); facial smearing of real or simulated feces, urine, menstrual blood, or semen; sexual humiliation; beatings, often requiring surgery or resulting in permanent physical or mental disability; release or threat of release to attack dogs, both muzzled or un-muzzled; near-suffocation or asphyxiation via multiple detainment hoods, plastic bags, water-soaked towels or blankets, duct tape, or ligatures; gassing and chemical spraying resulting in unconsciousness; confinement in small chambers too small to fully stand or recline; prolonged underwaffler immersion just short of drowning (i.e. dunking); and extended exposure to extreme temperatures below freezing or above 120 °F (48 °C)."

Where did that paragraph come from? Any basis?

"agents have anonymously confirmed to the Washington Post in a December 26, 2002 report that the CIA routinely uses so-called "stress and duress" interrogation techniques (e.g. water boarding), which are claimed by human rights organisations to be acts of torture, in the US-led War on Terrorism. These sources state that CIA and military personnel beat up uncooperative suspects, confine them in cramped quarters, duct tape them to stretchers, and use other restraints which maintain the subject in an awkward and painful position for long periods of time."

Which Washington Post artical? --TheResistance 21:35, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Torture in subheads

I've restored "torture" to the subheadings, reverting in part recent changes. We have to tread carefully here, but I'm resting this on several points of clarity:

  • Government denials do not, in most cases, change the definition of torture itself
  • Substantial, confirmed evidence of torture in each of the categories discussed here (Abu Ghraib abuse in Iraq; Maher Arar's case in extraordinary rendition)
  • The State Department's description of techniques involved as torture

Remember, this is not an article about interrogation, extraordinary rendition, slavery etc., but rather about torture and its relation to these elements of United States policy.

Also, an editing opinion:

  • The debate on "acceptable" techniques should not be read as an interpretation that these techniques are not torture, especially because some participants in the debate have openly advocated torture. So while I hear Philip's point about our text (and we should clarify just what the debate means), this is not a case of redefining torture on the fly.

--Carwil 14:50, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merger

  • Keep - article should be kept separate, so it is easier to find and has room to expand. EnviroGranny 02:11, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NYTimes Article

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/04/washington/04interrogate.html?_r=1&hp=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1191507197-J63du86MY+qXVIMFi7hUcA

This article is a pretty informative summary of the administration's and especially Alberto Gonzales' position towards torture and interrogation methods. I'm lacking the time at the moment to include some of the material, maybe someone else might give it some effort? 88.64.8.36 14:18, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Effectiveness

Should the article include various statements and studies which have been made regarding the effectiveness (or ineffectiveness) of US torture? --NeuronExMachina 16:35, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] POV

This page really needs to be rewritten from a neutral point of view. The opening statement makes allegations with no references, implying that people in America "look the other way" when it comes to torture. The following are drastic POV issues:

  1. In the Legislation and treaties regarding torture section:
"The United States Administration has created a category called unlawful combatants, that have no basis in U. S. or international law, to deprive such persons of protection under the Geneva Convention as prisoners of war, and keeps and interrogates them on foreign or "ambiguously foreign" soil such as Guantanamo Bay." which is not only factually incorrect, it is inflamitory, and has no sources.
  1. Ending judicial review of torture against terror suspects states the following -
"military tribunals of so-called enemy combatants and to hold them indefinitely without judicial review under the terms of habeas corpus." The unlawful combatants category is created by the Geneva Conventions. The Geneva Conventions allow for a prisoner to go before a military tribunal if there is doubt about there status. Habeas Corpus and a judicial review would only apply to a US citizen, on US soil. It would be crazy to believe that criminal evidence rules would apply to a battlefield.
  1. The Domestic police and prisons section makes the leap that stun belts are torture without any basis.
  2. The Legal maneuvers by the Bush administration section has "However, many influential U.S. thinkers also believe that Rumsfeld himself is a major part of the problem, quote the New York Times columnist Bob Herbert" which is blatently NPOV.

The list goes on with dozens of other violations of the WP:NPOV policies. Please try to keep articles nonbiased and sourced. Just list facts and people will come to the correct conclusion. There is no reason to embelish or spin. Douglas 07:31, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Without a doubt this article is far below spec; the vast majority of the first half is unsourced and strictly opinion/conjecture (biased at that). Something needs to be done. I cannot see a way to salvage much of what currently heads this article at this point in time. Thomquaid (talk) 08:33, 8 December 2007 (UTC)


"While the United States is a party to international conventions against torture, torture has been practiced within its borders and on its government's behalf outside of its borders. Torture in the United States includes torture within prisons, immigration detention facilities and military compounds. A variety of other relations exist between torture and the United States. Historically, torture has been practiced as part of the institution of slavery, in jails and prisons, and in warfare. American government officials have participated in torture abroad, maintained interrogation facilities where torture is practiced and trained foreign officials in interrogation methods that include torture."

doesnt that seem very biased and unbalanced? somebody should fix this —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.128.9.10 (talk) 01:18, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

The lead is unsourced because it's the lead, summarizing what's below. If you can source qualifications, please add them. Note that nothing here says torture is widespread or rare, just that it exists. Douglas, thanks for pointing out some POV issues. "Unlawful combatants" is not a Geneva convention category, per sources on its wikipedia page. Stun belts is fixed, I hope. Thomas, care to lay out what you're talking about?--Carwil (talk) 22:26, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Removed tag as no discusion for a month. (Hypnosadist) 06:55, 16 January 2008 (UTC)