Talk:Toronto Maple Leafs/Archive 2

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents 1 Gretzky Retirement 2 06-07 Playoff Race 3 Torontos? Blueshirts? 4 incorrect stats 5 General watch request 6 New players and Jersey numbers 7 Detroit and Leafs 8 Getting this article to Featured level 9 Fair use rationale for Image:LeafsNation banner.jpg 10 Comments 11 Sundin's stats 12 Nationalities 13 Maple Leafs President 14 New GM 15 Fair use rationale for Image:LeafCaptainSittler.jpg 16 Fair use rationale for Image:Mahovolich4Kelly8.jpg 17 Series vs. Flyers- only 6 games, article says 7 in about 03-04 18 Media

Gretzky Retirement

Put up a factual dispute due to the fact that most of the other NHL team pages list the date of league wide retirement as Feb. 6, 2000, whereas here it's listed as April 18, 1999 BT14 06:29, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I've removed the April 18, 1999 date: That date's when Gretzky retired, Feb 6, 2000 is when his number was retired. GoodDay 18:34, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

06-07 Playoff Race

I removed the standings for the eighth and final playoff spot at the bottom of the "2006 to present" section. Wikipedia is not a news service, and we shouldn't be posting stuff like this. Thanks. Gujuguy 13:56, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Torontos? Blueshirts?

Can someone remove this from the Infobox? The Maple Leafs franchise began as the Arenas; the Arenas weren't a continuation of the Blueshirts. GoodDay 02:02, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Nevermind, I've removed them. GoodDay 02:11, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

I noticed. I went to remove them, and then had an edit conflict pop up. Serves me right for stopping during the anthem before the Oilers-Flames game. :) I think I would've missed the starting season anyway, though; you get everything in one pass. —C.Fred (talk) 02:18, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

The Torontos & Blueshirts is back, without any explanation. GoodDay 23:03, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

The team operated without a nickname for 1917-18, this is explained in Deceptions and Doublecross, it was a temporary franchise to be operated by the Arena Company, until it solved the dispute with Livingstone. The Arena Hockey Club was formed in October 1918 to separate the 1917-18 revenue legal dispute from hockey operations for 1918-1919.

incorrect stats

Mats Sundin's stats under Leafs scoring leaders is incorrect. It needs to be updated and edited. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.96.36.20 (talk • contribs) 00:01, 15 April 2007 (UTC).

Good catch! He was one goal light. I've updated it, and it agrees to the Mats Sundin article now. —C.Fred (talk) 00:17, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

General watch request

General request to folks watching this article: please backcheck anon IP edits in particular, even if it looks like they fixed a problem. We just lost the 1917-27 history section for about a day and a half as a result of this -- an anon vandal replaced it with the usual garbage, then another anon came along a few hours later and deleted the trash, but didn't restore the deleted section. The lead of the history section didn't make much sense as a result (it started with "Querrie lost a lawsuit to Livingstone and decided to put the St. Pats up for sale"), and that's something we need to catch. Thanks. VT hawkeye_{talk to me} 17:59, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

How about request for semi-protection again? Johnny Au 21:28, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

It is now semi-protected. Johnny Au 00:55, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

New players and Jersey numbers

In order to avoid a revert war, I will refrain from making changes. However, do we know the jersey numbers Toskala and Bell will be wearing. I put in a semi-protection request for the page, and I think it should be up until after the draft. Ccrashh 18:56, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Someone edited out Aubin altogether. I've restored Aubin and removed Toskala's presumed jersey number. GoodDay 16:40, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

He might be a -passing by- anon editor, but we'll have to keep an eye on 64.229.230.83. His edits are questionable (at best). GoodDay 17:05, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Detroit and Leafs

It says under Rivalries that Detroit will not meet the leafs in the 2007 - 2008 season for the first time since the original six era. That's wrong because it will actually be the 2008 - 2009 season. the leafs will still tour the Central division in the 2007 - 2008 NHL season. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Leafs877 (talk • contribs) 03:36, June 27, 2007

If you can find a reference for it, then change it and reference it. Bsroiaadn^Talk 03:40, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Some rivalry, they hardly meet anymore. The same can be said for all NHL teams. You want Rivalries, look to the 'golden era' when (six-team league) teams met each other 14 times a season. GoodDay 17:24, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Getting this article to Featured level

Given the historic importance of the Leafs in Canadian culture and in the NHL, this article should be featured. I recommend the following:

1. Split off the history section into a new article to help keep this one under 40kb
2. Start vigourously referencing the article
3. Expand the lead
4. Mention their status with the Habs as the Forever Rivals (or even create Forever Rivals)
5. Semi-protect the page

Wafulz 12:55, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I was looking at your split suggestion at first like "Wafulz must be crazy" but I looked the article over, and only about half of it (scrolling-wise) is actual history, the rest is the roster, season stats, retired numbers, and all that and realized it's probably a good idea. Though I think the name should be brought up at WP:HOCKEY to make sure we can agree on a name just in case we have to do this with other articles later on. I think History of the Toronto Maple Leafs is fine, but some may prefer Toronto Maple Leafs history or something. Bsroiaadn^Talk 13:30, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Also, there's already an article (well, it's only a section really) about the Leafs-Canadiens rivalry. See National Hockey League rivalries#Maple Leafs-Canadiens Rivalry. Bsroiaadn^Talk 13:35, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Nevermind about bringing the name up at WP:HOCKEY, it would go along with History of the New York Rangers. Bsroiaadn^Talk 13:59, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I took the historical section and created History of the Toronto Maple Leafs. The rationale was that it was important to keep the article within a reasonable size and place the history in another article. Maple Leaf 21:04, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I think this is an excellent idea, however as the main article, this one should still contain an abbreviated look at the Leafs history. Simply chopping out 90 years of history leaves a giant hole in this article. Resolute 21:09, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I've put it back in. We need to shorten it, but we can't just remove everything up til 2006. Also, why is it from 2006? Ideally it should be from 2005 (post-lockout).-Wafulz 13:42, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree that it is a good idea. There is a precedent with the Rangers. It probably could also be done for Toronto, Montreal, Chicago, Boston and Ottawa Alaney2k 18:01, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I have started editing the history part of this article, and took out the temporary notice. I suggest we work on shortening the history part here, and improving the History Of The article, as I see someone put the notice for need of references here. Alaney2k 20:42, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Recently, the article is having too much IP vandalism that clearly violate Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy. It should be semi-protected for at least two weeks, so that we can have the article to Featured level without worrying about having to revert vandalism, which would fill up the article's history. Johnny Au 01:52, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:LeafsNation banner.jpg

Image:LeafsNation banner.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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BetacommandBot 04:33, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Comments

Another Original Six team, another article lacking a specific "Uniforms" section. There absolutely has to be one, especially since this is The Maple Leafs, and that they have one of the best and most popular uniforms around. The section should have photos and info. Also, the team mascot should be mentioned somewhere. As you might have seen, I've made these same comments about a lot of NHL team pages. If we can get most of these team articles to have the same structure I think it'll look better and be more unified. Team jerseys are important, right? The Devils article is obviously a foundation for the rest. Love each other, or perish. ~Auden 05:16, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

"However, a six-game series against the Blackhawks and a seven-game series against the San Jose Sharks took their toll on the team; they were defeated by the Vancouver Canucks--a team that finished 13 points below them in the regular season-- in five games."

Says who? Does any reputable source say that playing one more game than the Canucks was the reason the leafs lost? That's what the sentence implies. 70.66.2.120 (talk) 01:15, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

shouldn't the recentism in the 2006 onward section be dealt with? it really isn't that hard of a thing to do. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.66.2.120 (talk) 04:58, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

"In 2002, they would dispatch the Islanders and Ontario rivals, the Ottawa Senators, in the first two rounds, only to lose to the Cinderella-story Carolina Hurricanes in the Conference Finals. The 2002 season was particularly impressive in that the Leafs had many of their better players sidelined by injuries, but managed to make it to the conference finals due to the efforts of lesser-known players who were led mainly by Gary Roberts, who put up a heroic fight, although they would eventually fall to the Hurricanes."

This whole paragraph reads like it was taken from a Toronto Maple Leafs fan board ... in fact, this whole article does ... i'm going to take a crack this paragraph to make it more neutral. The first italicized quote is not nuetral, the second one needs to be cleaned up a bit, the third one is not neurtal, and the fourth italicized quote is just repetitive seing as though this was already mentioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.66.2.120 (talk) 21:31, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Can someone make a change in the Leafs Nation section please? The claim that the nickname "the Buds" stands for "(as in maple bud and/or short for buddy)" is absolutely ridiculous. It is a reference to maple buds, not a short-form of buddy. I've lived in Toronto for 40 years and have never once heard that...until reading it here.

Sundin's stats

We went through this last season. and consensus was reached then that the scoring tables would only be updated at the end of each regular season. Has the hockey project reconsidered this, and/or is there a new consensus that says we should be changing this table constantly? —C.Fred (talk) 22:15, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Nationalities

If Alex Steen is Swedish, than Alexei Ponikarovsky, and maybe even Nik Antropov are Canadian. If we do it by place of birth, than Poni and Antropov are right, but Steen is wrong, and if we're doing it by citizenship, Nik Antropov and Alexei Ponikarovsky both became Canadian citizens last year, and at least Alexei Ponikarovsky has publicly stated that he'd prefer to play for Canada to the Ukraine, saying once he got his citizenship that he'd "like to try out for the Olympic team." If you need a link to prove this, then I'll find it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.245.89.152 (talk) 04:33, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

We tend to go by what the player most identifies with. As such, Steen is listed as a Swede, given the only roots he really has in Canada is that it is the place his dad played. Much of his development was in Sweden, and he plays for Sweden internationally. Robyn Regehr is a similar case. Antropov and Ponikarovsky similarly continue to identify with their birth nations far more than their adopted nations. Much in the same way that Wayne Gretzky is flagged with a Maple Leaf, despite having American citizenship, and currently living in the US. Resolute 05:38, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Maple Leafs President

Let me get this straight, the Leafs have no team President. Tannebaum basically represents the owners (Teachers Union) & Peddie runs the Leafs rink. If that make sense?, should we clarify this in the article? GoodDay (talk) 19:11, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

I've figured it out, folks. The article Ken Dryden, says the position Maple Leafs President was abolished in August 2003. GoodDay (talk) 22:34, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

New GM

FERGUSON WAS FIRED TODAY!! http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=227906&hubname= WOO! CHANGE THAT GM TO FLETCHER SOMEONE! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.95.233.106 (talk) 16:47, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

That's 'interim GM' for Fletcher. GoodDay (talk) 22:03, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:LeafCaptainSittler.jpg

Image:LeafCaptainSittler.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 23:16, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Unlike the image below, I can't come up with a rationale for this one. —C.Fred (talk) 03:57, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Mahovolich4Kelly8.jpg

Image:Mahovolich4Kelly8.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 00:48, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Series vs. Flyers- only 6 games, article says 7 in about 03-04

It should probably be changed 142.68.87.127 (talk) 02:09, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

• Where do you see it saying 7 games? Every place I see it discussed, it's 6. —C.Fred (talk) 02:11, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Media

I don't think Fan 590 (CJCL) broadcasts any Leafs games anymore. Also, the media box should mention CBLT (CBC) 5 as a broadcaster due to HNIC.

129.100.179.222 (talk) 17:03, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

HNIC is a national network program, not sure if we list that in the infobox. Alaney2k (talk) 17:12, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

I believe the media sections typically include only local/regional broadcasters, not national. Resolute 17:15, 31 March 2008 (UTC)