Talk:Tonypandy Riot
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Churchill broke a rule that had been established in 1688 and still holds today: that troops are never ever used in internal disputes on the British mainland.
I don't think the claim about troops firing is accurate. It just muddles the issue, which was that he broke existing norms.
--GwydionM 18:37, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
I've reversed some partisan changes made by an unidentified user. The later editing of this version was fine in itself.--GwydionM 20:54, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Did Churchill send troops to Tonypandy?
Did Churchill actually send troops to Tonypandy at all? The linked page says that
"At one o'clock on the morning of the 8th November, Captain Lindsay fearing the scale of the disorder and the possibility of losing control of the situation telegraphed for army reinforcements, Tidworth barracks replied saying that contingents of cavalry and infantry would arrive at Tonypandy at 9a.m. that morning. When they didn't arrive he telegraphed Winston Churchill, the then Home Secretary....
"Unbeknownst to him however, [b]Churchill on finding out about the unapproved troop movements had already stopped the reinforcements at Swindon[/b], fearing some said a repeat of the incidents of 'Bloody Sunday, when in 1887 at Trafalgar Square troops with fixed bayonets faced rioters. [b]He sent a telegram to Lindsay stating, 'infantry should not be used until all other methods have failed'. Instead of the military he sent 70 mounted and 200 other constables of the Metropolitan Police Force[/b] as reinforcements to the authorities already in the area. Cavalry were also offered, to be sent into the district as a precautionary measure under the control of General MacReady. Lindsay on hearing of the contingent of Metropolitan Police being sent to his aid refused the use of the cavalry saying the police reinforcements should be sufficient, as such [b]the cavalry were halted at Cardiff[/b].
"On Tuesday the 8th November the workmen on strike were paid off by the companies of the Cambrian Combine and proceeded to the Tonypandy Athletic Ground for a mass meeting. The local stipendiary magistrate Lleufer Thomas spoke to the men and read out a message from the Home Secretary who maintained his intent to hold back the soldiers and send only police in to maintain the peace. The tone was conciliatory and was well received by the strikers, promising as it did to arrange meetings with the Board of Trade to resolve the dispute. The miners then formed an orderly procession and proceeded once again to the Glamorgan Colliery, arriving about 4p.m. Within the hour however what was described as 'serious rioting' had once again occurred. Mounted police attempted to disperse the strikers and hand to hand combat between strikers and the police took place lasting over two hours. Finally the police managed to split the strikers into separate groups, some being driven up the valley towards Llwynypia and others down the valley towards Tonypandy. Scores of not hundreds of police and rioters were left injured. It was what happened next that has gone down in history as the Tonypandy Riots. Strikers on being driven to Tonypandy proceeded to smash the shop windows of the town, and also those of a number of private dwellings. Contemporary reports state that of all the shopping district only two shops retained their windows and were not looted by the rioters, one a jewellers which had roller shutters and the other a chemist owned by a former Welsh rugby International. The five constables on duty in Tonypandy at the time, together with dozen reinforcements from the Colliery finally managed to clear the streets. Due to the seriousness of this continued rioting Churchill telegrammed General MacReady stating, 'As the situation appears to have become more serious you should [b]if the Chief Constable or Local Authority desire it move all the cavalry into the district without delay[/b]'. Churchill also spoke to Lindsay and MacReady and agreed to send another contingent of 200 Metropolitan policemen leaving London on Wednesday 9th November at 3a.m. However by the time that 150 police arrived at Tonypandy Square at 11p.m. on the Tuesday 8th November the disturbances were over."
The way I read that the local authorities asked for troops, but Churchill sent policemen instead. Troops were offered conditionally, and were never used. Do we have another, reliable source that reports that troops were sent?
Agemegos 10:54, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, Churchill was responsible for sending troops as well as policemen, even if their exact movements were not always as he wished. See Roy Jenkins's biography of Churchill, for instance. He and others discuss the justification and would hardly have overlooked it if there was any ambiguity about Churchill authorising the use of the army, contrary to existing norms for the British mainland.
- GwydionM 08:24, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
