Talk:Tony Banks (musician)

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Tony Banks. Incredible talent and influential keyboard player of the prog' rock band Genesis.

Classically trained pianist ( which often seeps into his brilliant fusion of rock & classical styles ), founder member, and surviving member of Genesis.

Banks had a huge influence on the Genesis sound, and his hallmarks of classical style acoustic piano, Hammond organ, Mellotron Strings & Choir sounds & wonderful weaving ARP synthesizer patches made him one of the most intruiging & inventive keyboardists of the 70's 80's & 90's.

Banks's prodigeous talent on the keys impressed anyone who was involved in music, he is trully a musician's musician.

Technically brilliant as both player & composer, Banks set the standards that his peers ( which included Rick Wakeman of Yes and Keith Emerson Of E.L.P. ) had to aspire to.

Bank's contribution to Genesis was so intense, that many people contend that the unique Genesis sound was largely due to the influential keyboard player, who unfortunately could not translate the Genesis popularity into his own solo work, which included several solo albums & film music scores.

Contents

[edit] What happened?

Did this article never have a talk page before? And what is the above fan gush doing here? PurplePlatypus 06:34, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Equipment correction - Boss CE-1 (was CE-10)

The chorus pedal used by Tony banks with the Hammond organ was the Boss CE-1, not CE-10. The CE-1 was released in 1976, which would time it right, but AFAIK there never was a CE-10. There was an RCE-10 released in 1986, which may be what people are confusing it with (a common mistake). Jackfruit1000 23:51, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Comments about his sounds"

Something needs to be done with the passage someone recently wrote at the end of this article. There is some usable information in it, but there's way too much speculation and fan gushing. Jphillst 21:52, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

"Unless there is some example of another keyboard player doing this before Banks."

Doesn't really sound like the thing an enciclopedia would say. He either did it or he didn't. the way it is worded now it just looks like the person was to lazy to look it up themselves. If there isn't information to back this up it should be removed. 140.232.253.33 09:39, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Not really laziness as much as not knowing how to prove no one else had done it. You'd have to have listened to all sound recordings from when the MIDI-capable Roland drum machine came out until 1983 when Banks used the technique. It's highly unlikely. Most synth and prog bands and keyboard innovators did not use the Roland drum machines. I changed the wording so the burden of proof is on someone to find evidence to the contrary. Scott1329m 15:45, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I edited the 'Sound Innovations' section; the Mama sound was done with a LinnDrum, and MIDI was not used, but rather a retrofitted additional trigger input on the Quadra. They did use Roland drum machines (CR-78 on Duke and possibly TR-808 on Abacab), but it was definitely a LinnDrum on the 1983 album; it can be seen next to the keyboard rig on the following two tours. The first MIDI fitted Roland drum machine was the TR-909 as far as I know, which came out in 1984. Also, the sampler on the 1983 album was an original Emulator. The EII didn't hit the market before 1984 either. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.62.199.198 (talk) 21:04, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Edited the 'Sound Innovations' section again; the final paragraph was poorly worded and had some facts wrong. I also added a reference to his characteristic RMI organ mode sound, which, with that specific effects combo, is one of the very few sounds (if not the only one) exclusively used by Banks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.61.143.204 (talk) 02:59, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Widely regarded as one of the pioneers of the progressive rock movement"

Is there any cited validity to this statement?

At any rate, if it needs to be in the article at all, it probably belongs in the intro paragraph. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jphillst (talk • contribs) 07:24, 13 March 2007 (UTC).

I say no because, at the time, Genesis were very minor in the scheme of prog rock which was dwarfed by Yes, ELP, etc. particularly as far as keyboards went. Banks didn't even play synths until the Selling England album, by which time the prog rock had already established monophonic synths. Banks was not known for his songwriting either until after Genesis stopped crediting the whole group with each song. Genesis' longevity has given Banks his proper due, and he has been an influence on many others. Scott1329m 15:55, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I took the statement out. It seemed rather generic and haphazardly-placed anyway. As a rule, I think generic "one of the" statements (e.g., "So-and-so is regarded as one of the greatest/most important whatevers of blah blah blah") shouldn't be used in Wikipedia unless there is a significant source to back it up. Jphillst 00:31, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Agreed - Banks' work speaks for itself without hyperbole. Scott1329m 12:39, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unfounded praise statements

It appears that an anonymous user has been adding a lot of unfounded statements to this article, using a lot of hyperbole and speculative views on Tony Banks' significance to give him praise. To whoever this is, please stop. With all due respect as a Banks fan, your statements do not reflect the general consensus of prog fans or rock music critics, and therefore are not suitable for Wikipedia. Jphillst 23:23, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unfounded Praise Statements -- Is Anything Absolute ?

The whole Banks article is very informative and I think it's important to make it as accurate as possible. So some "fan" makes "unfounded praise statements" which to me just sound like the start of a discussion but hey, let's all get the boot in because he can't actually substantuate anything that's said.

So user Jphillst reads the riot act on several occasions, and wait for it 'cause this is real irony, says ............

"your statements do not reflect the general consensus of prog fans or rock music critics"

WOW, that must have taken a lot of time & research to establish, so hats off to you mate.

Please enlighten everyone where & how you collected your data, regarding "the general consensus of prog fans or rock music critics" or have you just added another UNFOUNDED STATEMENT ??

Put this in perspective please, if the writer had said that Banks designed the Moog synth in collaboration with Bob, then we would have to shout, hey that's an UNFOUNDED STATEMENT, but all he said was that Banks is pretty special, and he is. That statement my friends in completely founded in fact ! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.240.54.116 (talk) 02:16, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

The statements I edited from the article were generic, highly opinionated, dubious and mostly lacking substance. Here are some examples:
"Coupled with the "bits" of other band members, the Banks-laden Genesis composition defined the progressive rock genre."
ONE musician's composing style can define a whole genre? How many rock critics would agree with that?
"Albums Selling England by the Pound and The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, both significantly penned by Banks, are widely acknowledged as primary examples of progressive rock music."
Widely acknowledged by WHO? An encyclopedia article should be as specific as possible; phrases like "is widely acknowledged by" (or "widely regarded as") are vague and generic; they say nothing substantial whatsoever. They merely act as an attempt for individual fans to claim that their opinions somehow reflect the status quo.
Also, even if my statement was "unfounded", I put it on the talk page and not the article. Jphillst (talk) 20:31, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

P.S. Loved the whole article about Banks and all the info about his equipment, but the question is.. did Banks EVER play the intro to "Firth of Firth" Live on the electric piano.? I think it was a Hohner Pianet T he used for "realism" at the time.

Anyway, saw Genesis twice during their "Trick Of The Tail" tour in 1976 and was so dissapointed that the intro wasn't played I wrote to "Sounds" magazine as they had an "Any Questions" section where readers wrote in with queries etc. I was surprised when the question was printed and also an answer from "Genesis Spokesman" which stated that Tony would not play the intro live because the quality of the electric piano could not do justice to the opening rendition. Never ever seen or heard him play it live, despite advances in technology where it's really difficult to distinguish between a quality electronic piano & an acoustic grand. Anyone have any information ?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.240.54.116 (talk) 02:51, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

He played the FoF intro a number of times on the Selling England tour, on both the 'white' and the 'black' legs, using the freshly acquired RMI piano. Bootleg recordings which exist of some of the shows generally do point to poor sound quality of the RMI, but also to a high frequency of mistakes in his playing. At one of the shows at Drury Lane Theatre in early '74, he screwed up the transition to the main part big time, forgetting he didn't have a full 88 note keyboard, not transposing the final section and running out of notes. This prompted him to stand up from the keyboard and scream "F*ck!!!" There's no bootleg of this show as far as I know, but it can be read in the CAS tour programme, and he said it in an interview as well. The intro was played a couple more times after that, but dropped on later tours. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.61.186.198 (talk) 03:13, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] MXR Phase 100

The article says that the MXR Phase 100 was first used on "Robbery, Assault and Battery." I could be wrong, but I *think* this effect was used during the intro to "In The Cage," from two years before. Am I right? Jphillst (talk) 04:55, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

You are right, and I edited it. It was actually used on the RMI piano running in organ mode on ITC, not on the Hammond; this was recently confirmed by Nick Davis when he was remixing the album. It is the same sound on Robbery, though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.61.143.204 (talk) 03:02, 30 November 2007 (UTC)