Talk:Tomb Raider

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[edit] Major changes as of 02/02/06

New page for the entire game, designed to gather all info on the original Tomb Raider. The Tomb Raider series page now exists to give an overview of the franchise. Note that some people may think that this page contains too much info on gameplay but I feel it is necessary to explain the basics of a Tomb Raider game at least once, so we don't need to get back on it in every sequel. We can just refer to this page then. I will add some info on the Glidos alterations later on. Cheers --Steerpike 00:00, 2 February 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Influence

The game is widely considered to be among the best and most influential games ever made.

Isn't that wording a bit over the top? Tomb Raider did have quite a bit of impact, but "most influential games ever made"? How about "most influential games of its time" or something along the lines? -- Grumbel 01:30, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

I think it *is* one of the most influential games ever made, and on several levels more than just gameplay. I know it's difficult to back up that sort of claim with good specific references but I tried to explain Tomb Raider's impact on the gaming industry a little more detailed in the Legacy section. And its impact was undeniable. For starters it was one of the very first "working" 3D games that operated with a 3rd person view. The graphics were revolutionary, the approach to plot was a lot more cinematic and Lara Croft herself became one of the most recognizable icons in video gaming. I think it redefined a genre. After Tomb Raider video game companies were scrambling to think of a character as exciting as Lara Croft.
And to get back to gameplay, most players may not immediately notice but Tomb Raider somewhat slighly introduced gameplay mechanics that have pretty much become standard: free 360° look, autotargeting, 180° turn,... Everyone may disagree with me but I think Tomb Raider is in league with Doom or Sonic the Hedgehog or Metal Gear Solid as one of the most iconic/influential games ever made.
One final note: "ever made" may sound a bit like a stretch but I might remind everyone that the video gaming industry is relatively young anyway. 20 years or something. :) --Steerpike 10:53, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
The part I find questionable is the expression "is widely considered". Read more at Wikipedia:Avoid_weasel_words.
If we want to keep that in there then we should say something to the effect of "The game is often considered to be one of the most influential games of its time". Also, the gaming industy is actually 40 years old by the largest stretch of the imagination (the very first game ever developed i think was made in the '60s). The arcades first became popular in the early '80s, and home consoles became popular in the mid '80s. Tomb Raider didnt come out until the mid '90s. I dont think that good graphics really count as being "influential". What makes a game influential is to do something like Half-Life did (be the first FPS to ever have a well integrated storyline that the character plays through). If we want to say it was one of the most influential games, i think we should either specify either "for its genre", or "for its time". Or we could say it was one of the most revolutionary games, as it was a key reason for the success and founding of E3. DurotarLord 23:14, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nude Raider

The facts regarding the nude raider patch are:

  • There was a 3rd party "patch" for the PC version. No one from Core or Eidos was involved
  • There is no secret code or any other method for creating a nude Lara in any console version. It was hard enough cramming in the whole game onto the disc without extra graphics
  • nuderaider.com was awarded to Eidos Interactive as part of the settlement

Source: MrMarmite: Me, Ex-Director of Development and WebMaster at Eidos Interactive US

I'm considering moving the Nude Raider section back to Tomb Raider series. It doesn't apply as much to this game as it does to the entire series. --Steerpike 23:43, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

MrMarmite: The nude raider patch in question was only made available for TR1, and that should be noted in any move. However, I think it might better be placed in the Tomb Raider series.

Oh ok, I was wondering about that. I thought Nude Raider patches were written for every Tomb Raider game. I don't mind if it stays in this article then (but I won't be moving it back if someone decides to move it to Tomb Raider series. Either way suits me). --Steerpike 10:38, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
Someone keeps adding nonsense about a hack for the PS version of Tomb Raider 3. It never existed. See here [1] MrMarmite 15:47, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] External Links

This page has a lot of external links that aren't directly involved with the original game. Some of them would definitely be better suited to the Tomb Raider series page or Tomb Raider Legend. If someone would weed out the wrong links... --Steerpike 12:15, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

UPDATE: I did some clean-up myself. But there are still a few links that are probably better suited to Tomb Raider series. Also, this general notice: I don't like it when people add links without description, or put the same link in *every* Tomb Raider game page when it's not relevant to the game at hand. --Steerpike 14:32, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Save differences

I remember even differences for the saving points among Playstation and Saturn versions. While the "saving crystals" could be used over and over again in the PS version, they disappeared after using them once in the Saturn version - am I correct? --Abdull 12:20, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

PS version has vanishing save crystals too. --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 22:22, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Album title

My copy of Tomb Raider has "Getting Naked" as the disc album title. I'll mention this in the article if someone can verify it. Alksub 03:55, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

"Getting Naked" was the name of the single Rhona Mitra recorded as Lara Croft. I'm not aware of any version of the game which included the songs. Also, Rhona modelled as Lara for Tomb Raider II, so that could be a bonus of a specific re-release. ~Treeble

[edit] St. Francis Folly

This has always intrigued me; anybody knows why level 5 is named St. Francis folly? I hoped to find an answer here. Siggie 17:59, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

See Folly wikipedia entry. I tried adding this and the mythological references to the Trivia section, but it was deleted. I will try and add it one more time, this time as simply a link on the level's name. But if anyone feels it must go then I apologize. Jamshyd 02:16, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nude Raider (console)

Contrary to rumor, there is no method of creating a nude Lara in any console version of the game.

If memory serves, I have a British gaming magazine that has the Exploder (or one of the PAL cheat devices) code to make Lara 'appear' nude. Anyone know about this? If pressed, I could always find the mag.

Gamesmaster perhaps? I think you're right about the code. --Steerpike 01:34, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
No, it was a print magazine specifically covering PS1 games. I just moved and will be going through the mags soon enough.
Urban myth I'm afraid. It never existed. MrMarmite 15:48, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anniversary Edition

I've reworked the so called Anniversary Edition controversy section, removed unsourced statements, and unencyclopedic material. I've also added new information and sourced all the claims. If you can improve it furthermore, please do so. --Svetovid 23:58, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My site

I think my tombraider site contains important information that isn't on wikipedia, so do not delete it from the external links.

What's the url? Btw, please sign your comments using --~~~~ --Steerpike 18:02, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Please do not remove TombRaider.Ws link from Wikipedia pages, as we are one of very few Tomb Raider fan portals with rich content and media, and directly supported by Eidos (even credited in recent TR Anniversary game as "Tomb Raider Community"). We have relevant information on original series as well, so I would appreciate if this add/remove un-pleasantries stop happening. My regards! Shehriyari 12:03, 1 November 2007 (UTC).

Please don't cross post - see discussion in Tomb Raider series talk page. ~~ [Jam][talk] 12:48, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Babe Raider

An episode of the Disney Channel show, Life With Derek, parodies Tomb Raider. hal29Dec06 unregistered.

[edit] New picture

Image:Tr1001.jpg
Promotional artwork of Lara Croft in Tomb Raider.

Someone added this picture to "development" recently, but I fail to see why an additional picture in this section is relevant here. Besides, the captions on the image page says it was "found on a website with no copyright". I doubt there really was no copyright. --Steerpike 08:24, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fresh Idea

I have a proposal. I posted some time ago an article that just doesn't fitted with Wikipedia's standards. This is my article: User:Locketudor/Tomb Raider music. I want to split it, remake it and distribute it to all Tomb Raider games. --Tulok 15:34, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi Tulok. First of all: next time you want to open a new discussion either use one appropriate talkpage or, if the topic concerns a more general Tomb Raider topic as in this case, use Talk:Tomb Raider or Talk:Tomb Raider series. I'll post replies only on this page to keep things sorted. As for your question: I think it's a great idea to have an article on Tomb Raider's music. Instead of chopping it up across various articles however, it would probably be best suited to the article on the Tomb Raider series. That said, your article as it stands is indeed not quite up to Wikipedia's standards. It just deals with the instruments and described the general "feel" of the music. It needs sources and preferably a treatment on how the music was produced/composed/conducted. Right now it sounds too much like your own personal appraisal of the music. Try to find some credible sources on the internet (or in magazines) that either 1) review Tomb Raider's music, or 2) talk about the production process that was involved. Cheers. --Steerpike 13:29, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Larson and Pierre

Do they have their own articles? 147.197.215.15 15:15, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes they do. Larson Conway and Pierre DuPont (Tomb Raider) Shrensh 17:37, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bringing the article up to a better standard

Today I've begun rearranging the article and, more importantly, referencing the statements in the Development History and Reception sections with the appropriate sources. I think we should look to featured video game articles such as Half-Life 2 to see where this article currently still lacks the necessary information, and which sections are possibly redundant. I've cut out the trivia section because it's generally against Wikipedia's policy to include such information in its articles (content should be noteworthy, not trivial). Where possible however, I've tried to work as much of the trivia into the body of the article, so that relevant information is not lost. I've also drastically shortened the level section, because it gave too much information that is not necessarily interesting to casual readers. It's not supposed to be a walkthrough. I have however retained the gameplay and features section, because I still think it's important to explain how the game works (and because it was the first of the series).Of course, I'm the one who originally wrote this page, so mostly I'm to blame for its shortcomings ^^, but I admit my editing wasn't really up to standard last year. Any comments are welcome. --Steerpike 14:54, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

My primary suggestion is that the plot and characters can be condensed into a single prose summary. Two other random bits:
  • "As such, Tomb Raider in essence harkens back to the classical form of platform style gameplay." needs a cite and probably full attribution ("X reviewer described the game as more of a platform style" or whatever x reviewer says).
  • The "features" section can cut a few of the more minute details, such as the breath meter, and death by diving into the ground.
The later sections of the article are quite good and well-referenced. Nifboy 05:44, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Work done! --Steerpike 15:19, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] quaternions

i think it should be mentioned that tomb raider used quaternions to make camera look so smooth. 84.16.123.194 (talk) 10:00, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

What on earth is one of those, and can you find any source to back up your claim? ~~ [Jam][talk] 10:01, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
There is source - www.gamasutra.com/features/19980703/quaternions_01.htm . It appears to be non-official. They are explained in article, shortly a way used to rotate point around some axis by some angle. (Though their significance appears to be rather "buzzwordish" - http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article1199.asp , they are becoming largery used by game developers ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternion ... SLERP) 84.16.123.194 (talk) 13:53, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
I see. Well, it might be OK to include it as it appears that that article was also published (so making it pretty reliable), although it would be quite nice to find an official source (if one exists). ~~ [Jam][talk] 14:01, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
i'd like to know if it (use of this technology) was something more in that time. something like quake's "smooth enviroments" (compressed each-each visibility). i presume others pick up ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.229.179.174 (talk) 17:55, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Excessive use of copyrighted Images?

According to User:Beemer69, this article uses an excessive amount of copyrighted images. I would like to use this section to discuss this issue. My own view regarding these images, and why I feel their use is justified, is as follows:

  • Because Tomb Raider was the first in a long series of similarly styled video games, it makes sense to discuss the gameplay mechanics in-depth in this article, so it needn't be re-addressed on all subsequent articles like Tomb Raider II or III. Accordingly, I think it's useful to explain the most important gameplay elements by way of pictures (which still explain much more than any 1000-word paragraph) in this article, so it is clear not only how this game looks, but also nearly all sequels up until Tomb Raider Chronicles.
  • Tomb Raider is not an obscure video game. It had a major cultural impact, and is frequently counted as a "classic" video game among other seminal titles such as Doom, or Metal Gear Solid. To explain why this game was so revolutionary at the time of its release, especially in terms of graphics and gameplay, it makes a lot of sense to include pictures.
  • Nearly all featured articles of video games, such as Half life 2, Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee or Supreme Commander use just as many, if not more copyrighted screenshots as the current Tomb Raider article, and in fact most of the aformentioned games are less well known to the general public than Tomb Raider. If the images on this article have to be removed, then those featured articles ought to be trimmed as well.

I think these three reasons are justification enough to keep the current count of copyrighted images. But please post your rebuttals here. --Steerpike (talk) 10:17, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Steerpike's views on the use of the images in this article. I don't know what counts as "excessive", but a brief skim reveals only 7 copyrighted images - hardly excessive by my standards. ~~ [Jam][talk] 10:28, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
I should've put an explanation on the talkpage when I added the template. That was my mistake. Anyway, there are too many images in the article, most of which are unimportant; we don't need pictures of "key items" or multiple locations Lara encounters in her travels, and the "Unfinished Business" image is exactly the same as the original box art. Just the original box art and a couple screenshots are needed. There was a similar problem of a glut of copyrighted images on some of the Harry Potter character pages, which we solved by simply removing some of them and leaving a couple older ones. Beemer69 23:46, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
I agree about the Unfinished Business image, but the rest can stay as far as I'm concerned. Perhaps the "City of Vilcabamba" image could be replaced by something a little more informative too. --Steerpike (talk) 14:33, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
I'll also agree with the Unfinished Business image, considering it is practically identical to that of the normal box art. The "key items" image can probably be removed too - I'm not sure it adds anything to the article really. Other than that, I think the images should be fine. ~~ [Jam][talk] 14:42, 19 May 2008 (UTC)