Talk:Tom Flores

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Contents 1 First Hispanic QB in Pro Football? 2 Triple achievement as a player, assistant and head coach - Mike Ditka and Tom Flores 3 Re: Recent debate 4 Flores' Whole Name

[edit] First Hispanic QB in Pro Football?

I'm not so sure, can you document this? —Xanderer 20:04, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

The fact that Tony Dungy was not an assistant coach prior to winning the Super Bowl is hardly significant. (In fact, you could say it was due in part to the NFL's racism, but that's not substantiatable). But EVERY time you heard a discussion of Ditka and Flores this year, Tony Dungy's role as joining them as the third was mentioned. So I think it is disingenuous not to consider Tony Dungy in this article. Hereon after, there will be three people mentioned in this category -- Dungy, Ditka and Flores. They will not omit Dungy.

The difference is that Flores and Ditka did in three ways as a player, assistant coach and head coach. I am sure that Tony Dungy's article will correctly reflect his achievements. They do not belong here. Ronbo76 03:15, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Triple achievement as a player, assistant and head coach - Mike Ditka and Tom Flores

Those two men won a triple achievement. Tony Dungy's dual achievement as a player and coach does not belong on this article - not here. Ronbo76 03:21, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough; however, with sports commentators around North America dropping all three names together, it might not be a bad idea to mention the "double achievement" on all three pages. That way, we prevent what could be perceived as an inconsistency. Andy Saunders 04:56, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

No, the triple achievement is a different or higher level of an achievement. The dual win as a player and coach is correctly listed on Dungy's article. Ronbo76 05:02, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

What is really sad, is that some editors see this difference and edit out the assistant win in the articles to include Dungy. That indicates that they know or can appreciate the difference but want to include Dungy. Ronbo76 05:15, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Because every sportswriter on the continent is mentioning the three of them together. (Not that I agree with them, you do have an excellent point, Ronbo, but I'm attempting to justify the edits.) Andy Saunders 06:50, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Again, the mention is on the basis on winning a Super Bowl as a player and a coach versus winning a Super Bowl as a player, assistant coach and coach.

Now, let's suppose no articles existed and only a category was going to appear for each accomplishment. Who would appear on each list?

As a player and a coach - three people: Flores, Ditka and Dungy.

As a player, assistant coach, and coach- two people: Flores and Ditka.

Don't get me wrong, Dungy's achievement is notable for several reasons. But, it would not appear on the last list which is the fact listed on Flores' and Ditka's article. Ronbo76 06:58, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

And, there is no justification for the edits where the fact as an assistant coach has been editted out. That shows awareness and the desire to see a fact published on an article. Ronbo76 07:04, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

The fact that a vast majority of the sports writers are putting the three names together, Dungy, Ditka and Flores, should be reason enough for Dungy's name to be included in the article. Furthermore, the article neglects to mention the fact that Flores did not play in Super Bowl IV, where as both Ditka and Dungy played in the Super Bowls that they won as players. Yet another reason Dungy's name should be in this articleMoorematthews 21:02, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Recent debate

I'm not keen on taking any sides in this issue, but I happen to have this article on my watchlist so I'm chiming in. First thing - for those who aren't aware there is a 3-revert rule on Wikipedia, so please keep that in mind when reverting/undoing changes. It seems that you all have good intentions so I'd hate to see people get blocked over this. Second - a lot of people have claimed that sports writers/announcers are saying this or that regarding Flores, Dungy, and Ditka. But the key is verifiability. Essentially, if you want to make a claim either way, it will need to be backed up by a verifiable source (preferrably with a URL). I would much rather see this issue worked out on this talk page rather than through a needless edit war. --cholmes75 ^{(chit chat)} 21:22, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Flores' Whole Name

I found it here [1]. Should we put Thomas Raymond Flores on the first sentence? --Chaohwa 19:26, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

• Is there an additional source we can get for this? IMDB has good stuff, but also has a lot of errors. --cholmes75 ^{(chit chat)} 19:01, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
• Agreed. Needs additional reliable source. Ronbo76 19:06, 13 February 2007 (UTC)