Talk:Tok Pisin

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[edit] Bai

Is it true that the future marker "bai" comes from English "by and by"? I thought it came from Portuguese "vai" ("goes"). Portuguese has influenced a lot of pidgins and creoles around the world, even pidgins/creoles which are not Portuguese-based. --Antonielly (talk) 10:22, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, Tok Pisin "bai" is an abbreviated alternative of the Tok Pisin word "baimbai" which derives from the old fashioned English expression "by and by." ~~CMC~~

[edit] Broken English

Just edited the link to "savvy" out, i dont think tok pisin has anything to do with a californian wrestler MikeTango 22:00, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

A Tok-Pisin Wikipedia just opened. Please contribute!

--Milaiklainim 5 April 2004

why does Broken english ridirect here?

  • Good question. --Whimemsz 01:00, May 3, 2005 (UTC)
I believe "Broken English" and just plain "Broken" are common names for various English-based pidgins and creoles. Torres Strait Creole also goes by these names. They are surely considered pejorative these days. — Hippietrail 03:35, 3 May 2005 (UTC)
AFAIK, "broken English" refers to the poorly-spoken English by non-native speakers... not any specific dialects/pidgins/creoles, etc. - SigmaEpsilon → ΣΕ 15:54, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Agreed, pidgins and creoles are not broken English. I've changed the redirect, so Broken english now goes to Broken English (the Marianne Faithfull album). There's a (rather dubious) disamb notice on that page. -- Wantok 05:55, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Why is this article not at Tok Pisin language, instead of that location redirecting here? --Whimemsz 20:22, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)

  • Probably because Tok Pisin is only a language, and nothing else, whereas English for example can refer to either the English language or to people from England; on the other hand, there are no people called "Tok Pisin," it refers only to the language. -- DocSigma 20:49, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Nb. "bikpela" does not primarily mean God. It primarily means "big." To put "God" as the primary meaning is to miss an important TP idiom (God is big, get it?). Besides which, it is more common to say "Papa God" where one would invoke The Big Judeo-Christian Diety in the Sky, anyways. 68.7.98.29 03:05, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

What is the basis for the statement that German creole (whatever that is) was used in German New Guinea? German New Guinea only lasted from 1884 to 1914 -- hardly long enough for creolisation. The influence of German on New Guinea Pidgin is decidedly minor compared to that of English -- the frequently proposed etymology of haus as coming from the German haus is just plain daft: obviously haus is simply house in the Pidgin orthography. Fr. Frank Mihalic's Jacaranda Dictionary and Grammar of Melanesian Pidgin (Milton, Qld: Jacaranda, 1971) remains the single most authoritative source and he simply states it to be "E."Masalai 18:03, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Some of the info here is inaccurate, it seems. According to Wurm and Mulhausler's "Handbook of Tok Pisin", Tok Pisin has /N/ phonemically. Amungst other things. Bryan 82.44.212.6 21:09, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

A reading of the article on Unserdeutsch indicates that the creole developed over more than the German era (the German influence in the Catholic orphanage referred to continued after the German era). But thirty years of first contact is plenty of time to develop a pidgin - which is all the German era helped to do; the creolization of Tok Pisin is a more recent development. Don't underestimate the German influence. The use of haus pre-dates major english influence, and it is highly likely that it did at least in part have German impetus in its use. The word for hospital haus sik translates a German structure which is not used in English - "krankenhaus". Another example is manki (see my comments below) - which is NOT derived from English - its use was common in the former German Territories, and NO WHERE ELSE in the world where the English had influence, and where piccaninny or its equivalent prevailed. The influence has faded, but is not entirely gone. Regards, Colin Richardson

  • I've got a question to the following word (in Vocabulary):

maski - it doesn't matter, don't worry about it

Does it come from German "macht nichts" (or like "machnix" in some dialects) which has the same meaning?

Vadimka 00:12, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

According to Mihalic, yes. Masalai 14:11, 5 December 2006 (UTC)


  • Just edited vocab word manki. It is not derived from English "monkey" as is commonly believed. As the German influence has faded it is often forgotten that many Tok Pisin words had their origin in the German colonial era in New Britain and northern New Guinea. Manki derived from the rather paternalistic put-down German word, männchen (little man) - and until the 1980s was the common Tok Pisin word for a child. A male domestic worker assigned to mind the boss' kids was called manki-masta - the boss of the kids. Due to the distance from the German era, and the dying out of the older generation, most PNG people today believe it derived from English "monkey", and naturally tend to object to its use. In the 1980s, there was a governmental initiative to try and eradicate the use of manki, manki-masta and meri, all perceived as derogatory. In the case of manki they have largely succeeded - it has been largely replaced by pikinini (curiously, derived from the Portuguese "pequenino" - meaning the same thing!) - though manki is still widespread as an equivalent to "kids". Manki-masta was supposed to be replaced by domestik - which never caught on. It is usually replaced by haus man or haus meri. In the case of meri the failure to change it to woman was abysmal - it is too deeply entrenched, and meri is heard everywhere still. Colin Richardson
Can we get a citation for this? Männchen is pronounced [mɛnçən], which I would expect to be adapted to Tok Pisin phonology as something like mensen, not manki. --Ptcamn 12:21, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
Sorry - can't give a citation. It was something I learned in years in PNG, both as a kid 45 yrs ago, and as an adult. The modern German pronunciation you cite is not necessarily final - German has many dialects and regional pronunciations. The Flemish word "mannekin", and the French "mannequin" have a common origin with "männchen", as I understand it - and pronunciations a lot closer to manki. Changes from English into Tok Pisin can be wildly different from the origin - compare pikbel with "pig belly", or banis with "fence" (via Pacific Pidgin "fenis", Bislama "fanis"). Curious that if the origin were "monkey" - why does the same word not appear in other parts of the world where English had influence? The term manki appears only in ex-German New Guinea - not in Solomons, not in former British West Africa, not in Vanuatu, not in Aboriginal pidgins - all of whom use variations on "piccaninny". Significant, I think. Cheers, Colin


Shadowoflinux 20:47, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, that's fixed now. Really, when you see a broken link, you can just go ahead and fix it - no need to consult. Wantok 01:08, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tok Pisin Wikipedia and Wiktionary

For those with an interest in Tok Pisin who are not watching WikiProject Melanesia, there's a move afoot to revitalise the Tok Pisin Wiktionary and the Tok Pisin Wikipedia. Please go to the discussion page, and specific subpages for Wiktionary and Wikipedia, if you are interested. Wantok (toktok) 10:36, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to remove the vocabulary list for Tok Pisin. It doesn't belong here. I'll leave the couple of sentences there, though, and add one or two examples for the languages of borrowing, though. Vocabulary should go into Wiktionary. If no one complains, I'll do it tomorrow or someday. — N-true (talk) 22:29, 7 April 2008 (UTC)