Talk:Togakure-ryū
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[edit] Historical accuracy
Pages 19-20 of "The Way of the Ninja" by Masaaki Hatsumi (ISBN: 4770028059) seem to contradict what is written in this article. Shima Kosanta Minamoto no Kanesada was a 16-year-old vassal (in 1181) under Yoshinaka and is said to have trained in the Togakure area. In 1184 (when Yoshinaka died), he was heavily wounded in battle and rescued by a Taoist known as Kasume-gakure ("Hiding in the mist"). The Taoist trained him and eventually he changed his name to Togakure Daisuke and established Togakure-ryû.
This needs to be corrected unless someone wants to dispute this book.
The passage of text in this book, apparently, has been duplicated here: http://www.freewebs.com/hibukimono/
Eradicator (talk) 17:49, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
I've started to play around with the format of the article to try and improve it. Thus far, I've simply removed the bias from the first line, and moved the sources to the end (adding my own source).
I've left the 'unverified' tag, as I haven't checked the specifics of the history, nor the techniques themselves (given that I don't know much of the Togakure-ryu).
As for the kyoketsu-shoge having no formal techniques, I shall have to verify that as well. I've trained in some techniques for it, but whether they're actually from densho for it, or simply applications of "kara-te" taijutsu to the weapon, requires checking it.
--Sasuke Sarutobi 02:40, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
- There was no bias on the first line; it must be said somewhere in this article that the "history" of Togakure ryu herein is derived only from sources inside Bujinkan. In particular, there does not exist any secondary sources by academic historians that acknowledge even the existence of Togakure-ryu before Meiji restauration and Takamatsu's time, much less a history dating several centuries before the amalgamation of the very first koryūs known to historians. Katori Shinto-ryu is barely 600 years old. In fact, the dating "c. 800 years" ago places the birth of Tokagure-ryu earlier in history that the birth of ryū-ha itself as a political institution. See e.g. Friday: Legacies of the Sword or G. Cameron Hurst III's books about the origins and meaning of ryū-ha system (the Wikipedia article is quite naive and need rewriting). jni 18:43, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Some edits I made. . .
I removed the "Dr." in front of Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi. His doctorate was awarded by what was found to be a diploma mill, and even before that fact became publicly known, Hatsumi asked people to stop referring to him as Dr.
I changed a bit of the formatting as well as correcting how some paragraphs were constructed in respect to the Japanese words being used. The grammar needed to be touched up a little bit as well.
More edits need to be done to bring a more neutral stance to the page. This info is all Bujinkan sourced. There is more information on Togakure ryu available from other sources. If anyone feels so inclined they may research Togakure ryu's connection to Kukishin ryu. There is also connection to amatsu tatara.
Paradoxbox2 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paradoxbox2 (talk • contribs) 01:22, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] More edits...
I tightened up the shape of the formal techniques among other things like a general cleanup, but this time around no time for citations follow up or attributing the Bujinkan Dojo martial arts organization as the main source. Julia Rossi 01:20, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
The Bugei Ryuha Daijiten states that Toda Shinryuken (Ishinsai) died in Meiji 13 at the age of 73 and that Takamatsu’s birth took place four years later but the list of soke says that Takamatsu was born in 1887 and Toda died in 1909. These 2 sections contradict each other.
[edit] According to the Bujinkan...
There are a number of problems with this phrasing. Its blatant passive aggression lowers the the article to the status of problematic content. It's also used inconsistantly. 'According to the Bujinkan, The oldest copy of the densho of Togakure ryu (which is in the possession of Hatsumi Masaaki) is written on the same physical scroll as the densho of Gyokko ryu.' Here you appear to imply that there are other, older versions of these documents, which it is clear from your tone is a view you do not subscribe to. For the record, it is my opinion that Togakure ryu was created by Takamatsu Toshitsugu in the mid-twentieth century. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.42.104.197 (talk) 19:30, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 21:43, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Yon-Po Hiden?
What is this? Everything I've ever read (training notes of other trainees) or been taught refer to only Sanpo Hiden (Senban Shuriken, Shuko, and Shinodake), and another Sanpo Hiden (Metsubushi, Kinteki, and Happa) of the kyusho in the Ryu's taijutsu. These also fall in line with Buddhist themes in this and other ko-ryu (三宝 sanpo refers to the three Buddhist treasures). Can a source be provided for the Yonpo Hiden? Stslavik (talk) 08:59, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
