Talk:Tobermore

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I'm the guy whose expanded the stub for Tobermore, didn't have an account when i started it.

Thanks Ardfern for adding links to words etc, appreciated. However some "facts" on Tobermore of which i am a resident i removed last time due to the fact they weren't correct. As for example:

"Tobermore has won several ’Best Kept Village’ awards in recent years."

This is incorrect and i'm removing it once again. I'm replacing it with the actual years Tobermore won as well as the amount of times.

Mabuska 12:34, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Yesterday added sources for many parts of the article after getting my hands on them. Improved and expanded the Calmore Castle section and the population sections. Mabuska 18:58, 11 January 2007 (UTC)


Contents

[edit] Killed or Murdered

This is directed to user's Derry Boi and Gaillimh.

In relation to the current killed/murdered debate, i'll ask for an end to the reverting of murdered to killed changes, and for the matter to be sorted out here in the talk page where it should be.

I'll also ask Gaillimh the same as i asked of Derry Boi:

If there was a concensus that all deaths due to the Troubles had to listed as killed, as Derry Boi says there was on my talk page, then provide me the article stating this standard and it will be listed as killed on this page. Otherwise it will stay as murdered as murdered is the correct term meaning "unlawfully killed".

If you continue to persist changing this without providing me the proof as i've requested then i will seek admin advice on the matter.

Mabuska 17:13, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi there! Hopefully we'll be able to come to an amicable resolution here on the talk page, but if at any point that you feel that our discourses are failing, please feel free to seek dispute resolution at any time! I'm not sure of any consensus with regards to how deaths are to be described in the Troubles, but during a war, it seems that all deaths should read "killed", as each side felt that the deaths were indeed lawful. gaillimhConas tá tú? 20:02, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Hi! Point noted. However just because one side felt it was lawful does not make it lawful. The Troubles was not a conventional war, and killings by paramilitary/terrorist groups does not make their actions lawful, even if their own dogma's make it so. And though each side felt that their killings where "lawful", they'd no doubt view killings by their enemies as murder. So the whole thing is a mess of POV's.
However there is one thing we should be able to agree on: during the Troubles whenever a paramilitary was arrested for attempting to kill someone, they where tried for "attempted murder", in otherwords an unlawful killing. Seeing as that was the term used in the courts, then we should be able to conclude that if they had succeeded in killing that person(s) then it'd be classified as murder. Mabuska 22:46, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Ah, ok. Your estimation is indeed correct in my eyes. gaillimhConas tá tú? 23:23, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Cheers :-) Mabuska 22:39, 27 February 2007 (UTC)


[edit] UVF Support

By Harry knight: "The UVF is believed to have considerable support in Tobermore and flags supporting the terror group have been seen flying in the village."

There is no fact to substantiate the first part of this statement. And flags being flown do not mean everyone endorses them. Most flags nowadays erected in Northern Ireland are by the minority of people in the villages and towns of Ulster.

There have been IRA/INLA/UDA/UVF flags flown in Desertmartin, Maghera, Swatragh and the rest of the country, i don't see statements in their articles as to this being so. Do you have any citations such as from published articles to backup this statement?

Mabuska 22:05, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cromwell

Are you sure that Cromwellian forces were at Drumbally Hill in 1651? I thought they were in Scotland at the time. I have a relative who owns that hill and I am just checking for family history. Please reply to <- this was an email address ->@btinternet.com !!!

According to the Sperrin Tourism initiative of whatever its called they where. But then again Cromwell's forces would have been all over the nation protecting/consolidating etc. etc.
The above comment was by me but i forgot to sign it when i posted it. I've also removed the comment above that's email address to prevent email harvesting programs and nasty gits from getting it and spamming it. Mabuska 14:18, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gaelic Sports

Seeing as Tobermore doesn't even have any Gaelic clubs or anything and since VintageKits wants a citation for it, i suppose there's no need to have the section at all as theres no written documentation to state if there is or isn;t one. If Tobermore has a GAA club then someone else can add it with such proof - which VintageKits you and me both know won't happen as there isn't one ;-). Mabuska 20:23, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Demographic changes

No point keeping it anymore so no disagreement with that removal VintageKits. As most immigrants moved in after the 2001 census, just have to wait till the 2011 census :-P Mabuska 20:29, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tobermore and WWI

Would pictures from wall plaques in a church classify as proof VintageKits? Mabuska 20:34, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Its not up to me, please read WP:RS, I am sure you can find its referenced in some book.--Vintagekits 20:36, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Well reading the fine print on the fact tag, unverifible content MAY be removed. So would a listing of people who served and died in WWI (with picture proof which i know isn't wikipedia legit but still is proof outside of wikipedia) be contentious and deserving of removal? Its not like i'm sticking something inflammatory in the article and i have seen many Irish republican articles that don't cite sources for all of their "facts" but i haven't seen you pull up any fact tags on them as of yet (if you have done so before and show me where then i'll happily accept my wrong :-) ). Mabuska 01:14, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Soccer section.

Think this article has the making of a fine article, but I think there's just too much information on the page, to the point where it looks untidy. For one I think the section on Tobermore United could be vastly reduced. I think the soccer section could simply be redued to

I feel the info on George Best, the youth development, the pitch upgrading, promotion, NW intermediate cup and NW senior cup would be better suited on the actual Tobermore United page. Opinions? Derry Boi 08:59, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree that there is a bit too much information on the page especially on Tobermore United which has its own article, however if you delete segments of the section at least ensure they are in the Tobermore United article so they aren't lost so to speak. I'll work on it this week, need to do some tidying to the article anyway, some section spacing blips etc.
And thank you for entering into a discussion on the topic, appreciated. Mabuska 23:46, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
Ok, no problem. Derry Boi 02:08, 20 August 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Page Tidying

Well DerryBoi i've somewhat tidied the page up and condensed a couple of bits down hopefully making it look easier to read. I've also vastly reduced the Tobermore United section. I know it still contains bits on George Best and those trophies Tobermore won, but all into one small paragraph rather than the several paragraphs it once was.

Do you have any other suggestions? I for one would like to place back into the article the following:

Tobermore and World War I
During World War I, 125 men from Tobermore served, with 27 being killed (see image to right). The most notable casualty being the death of 8-year old Bobbie Wisner, who was killed on 2 January 1915, and buried with full military honours (see image to right). Whilst too young to be a soldier in the British army, being a messenger for them instead. [citation needed]

I don't find such a section as contentious as VintageKits did. However i've just found that picture sources can be accepted as long as the source of the picture is provided http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources#Images, meaning a book with pictures of church plaques containing the names of those who fought in WWI and a large painting dedicated to those who fought can be used as evidence.

I know there is no written evidence that Bobbie Wisner was a messenger in the army, however stating the reality that he was would clear up any misunderstandings people would have thinking an 8 year old boy was a soldier in the front line instead. If needs be, leave Bobbie Wisner out of it altogether??

Mabuska 12:48, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Seeing as you have failed to respond in over 2 months i'm assuming you have no objections to it then. Mabuska 13:26, 4 November 2007 (UTC)