Talk:TISM

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[edit] Years Active

The Article SAYS, that TISM retired in 2004, as Hitler-Barassi said that the band was too tired to continue their wild pranks. The Years Active said 1984-present, but if the article says that they retired in 2004, it should read Years Active: 1984-2004. I fixed that for now, but if there is proof that they're still active, post a reason why it should read 1984-present, instead of just changing it back.

Yes, that is what the article says, however the band have not said "We have split up for good" and neither has their record label. Until that happens, I am reasonably secure in the thought that they are still a band who are "together", reasons for this include the fact that after The White Albun "Save Our TISM" concert, the band didn't rase enough money to stay together and hence "split up" at the end of the show. However, the DVD-Rom has a .pdf with a bunch of lyrics which chronicles growing frustrations within the band then their split and eventual re-formation stating "TISM are back". Add to this the fact that they played at Earthcore in 2005 and the fact that the "Save our TISM" concert was recorded in 2003 and they were together for all of 2004, would also lead me to beleive that they did not split up, but they are meerly taking one of their long hiatus's which they are known to do. A look at http://www.tism.com.au/tourdates/index.html will show TISM have performed, on average, only 15 gigs a year. Some years none. So them not playing gigs at the moment does not make them a now defunct band. Also, this quote from Humphrey seems to satify any doubt as to whether TISM will return:
"It’s a little bit like a continually dislocating shoulder (if) you’ve done it once there is always the fear that you will do it again. There is a weakness in the joint. So it is with TISM. ... indeed we will keep coming back. The improvements in medical technology over the years will ensure that it is quite possible that we will be working well into the next century. So every three years like a recurring bout of dyspepsia you will see us." [1]
and this quote, from a fan (amidst all the other 'have they split up' speculation) reads:
"I know a guy who is in TISM. They haven't split, there all just doing other things and leaving the possibility open to more gigs down the line. I think he said they have a book coming out." [2]
That post was from "Apr 05, 06" which looks positive to me.
As for the note in the article which says 'TISM are "too tired" to continue their wild pranks and their current status could best be described as retirement' seems to be more along the lines of a flowery prose than an encyclopaedic entry. The interview from Jay And The Doctor which that "too tired" Ron Hitler-Barassi quote supposedly came from is not availiable at the Triple J website, and as such, unverifiable. The evedence that TISM seem to be a band which have not split up, in my opinion, outweighs the evedence to say TISM have actually split up.
In light of this information, I beleive the article to be correct in saying their status is 1982-present and until substantial evedence to the contrary is proven, I beleive it should continue to say 1982-present.
Gohst 13:13, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
From Blackmans death, I'd say the hiatus was more a product of their guitarists battle with cancer, not sure if that should be included. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.167.169.39 (talk) 01:40, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Theres a video clip 'message from TISM' going around which seems to be a promo for the white albun. It lists a bunch of dates for which they were supposed to tour on (was also on the website). I know the Byron Bay, Gold Coast and Brisbane gigs didnt happen. Does anyone know if the Melbourne (Hifi bar) and Sydney (Metro) gigs happened? From Jul - Aug 2006.Theinnerexits 12:30, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

If you mean this video, its from 2004. According to the tism tourdates section of their website (now offline) there were around 10or so gigs in 2004. So far I havent heard of anything from TISM this year. The video hasn't got a year date on it, but its safe to assume its from around the time of The White Albun's release (2004) and the tour happened at that same time. Gohst 23:41, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Thanks Gohst I didnt realise the info on the website was that old....kinda assumed it was this year....might explain why the dates and days didnt match up.... damnit. Cheers for the info, regards.--Theinnerexits 09:49, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Quotes

Should there be a "Quotes" section for things which they've said during interviews?

Oh yes. Either here, or on Wikiquote. Regards, Ben Aveling 08:51, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Member Pages

I've noticed all the members now have links to their own pages. Do they need their own pages, or should the links be returned to plain text? Gohst 07:29, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, nobody seems to care and I can see no reason why the members of TISM should have their own pages (because they're anonymous!) so I'm reverting the links to plain text. Gohst 07:45, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stage Names Query

The line in the article "though it should be noted there have only ever been seven members of the band; clearly, names have been switched" seems to have no solid evedence. I don't think it's true, I think band members left for whatever reason they had. Family, career, boredom, etc. and a new member with a new stage name was introduced. If there is any proof of this being true, I'll leave it there but for now I'm taking it away. For example, in the FasterLouder interview at the bottom of the main atricle, Humphrey admits Leak Van Vlalen was "all over Hot Dogma" and he "had to go". And on the fold out cover for www.tism.wanker.com, Leak does not appear. He has been replaced by (I beleive) Tokin Blackman and a casual listen will show the guitar parts to be quite different. Even though a guitarist can definately change his style I think it more likely indicates a change of musician in this case. So in closing, I think the line in the TISM article quoted above is pure poppycock and should be removed. Anyone got any objections? Gohst 07:54, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I just want to thank you but for using the word poppycock! I was trying to think of that word the other day but couldn't remember it. I was searching for bobbycot and the like lol. DarkSideOfTheSpoon 03:33, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Definition of Some Members Names

I deleted this information from the article in an edit, if someone feels it can go back in somewhere, feel free to do so. Jon St. Peenis is still missing from the list though.
-
Some of the names which TISM members have chosen to name themselves are often quite complex, with some of them linking commonly known items or people to others of a lesser known stature to create a unique and humorous term. Some of their names and what they mean have been:

  • Ron Hitler-Barassi - whose name links the explosively tempered Australian Rules player and coach Ron Barassi with dictator Adolf Hitler (Barassi was also nicknamed "Hitler" by some sections of the public during his career).
  • Humphrey B. Flaubert - linking popular Australian children's TV host Humphrey B. Bear with French novelist Gustave Flaubert.
  • Eugene De La Hot-Croix Bun - linking French painter Eugène Delacroix with a popular Easter snack, the Hot Cross Bun (or "Hot Croix Bun," in French).
  • Tony Coitus - linking actor Tony Curtis and his notorious sexual escapades with Coitus, the term for sexual intercourse.
  • Les Miserables - who takes his name from the novel of the same name. To be said phonetically, to resemble 'Les', a shortening of Leslie or Lester, as opposed to the French pronunciation.
  • Genre B. Goode - linking the term Genre with popular rock song Johnny B. Goode.
  • Tokin' Blackman - a play on the belief that nearly everything has a "Token Black" man. May also be a reference to radio and television presenter John Blackman.

- Gohst 06:11, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] TISM members' real names

While it is not documented in this article, the real names of most of the members of TISM are known. When TISM played on John Safran's Music Jamboree, five names appear for TISM in the credits of that episode. It is fair to say that these are their real names.

It is known that Ron Hitler Barrassi has written a book under his real name (which appears in the credits of Music Jamboree). He has also appeared unmasked on SBS television talking about how an SBS documentary about the US civil war inspired his book.

It is also known that another member of TISM (whose name also appears in the credits of Music Jamboree) writes for the magazines Inside Sport and Australian Traveller.

Provided that sufficient evidence is supplied, does anyone else think that this information should be included in the article?

- HumphreyB 11:29, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

No. Quite simply no. And I have half a mind to edit your above comment, even though it may get me frowned at quite severely, because the members of TISM do not want their names to be revealed and because of this fact, they should not be revealed by anyone who just wants to be clever here.
Alot of information about a lot of things can be found out if one tries hard enough, but because someone has a license to edit a website freely doesn't mean the information they find should be instantly put up for everyone to gawk at.
Even though alot of people want to know who these guys are in real life doesn't mean everybody does, alot of people enjoy the fact they don't know who they really are and, to be quite blunt about it, the fact of the matter is the people in TISM have invested a lot of time and money into ensuring that the general public does not know who they are. Until their names are revealed by the band themselves, they should remain with the band because that's where they want them to be. They want their names to be private and... well, it just wouldn't be nice to spoil that. Gohst 09:50, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
I feel the same way you do. I don't want to spoil the the anonymity of TISM. I like the mysteriousness. Although who's to say what should and should not be published? Why should our beliefs dictate what should be known about TISM? While they have tried to keep their identities secret, they have had their masks ripped off in concert heaps and have appeared unmasked on TV. So they're not entirely self-conscious about it.
The Wikipedia help pages say something related to this:
"Also keep in mind that Wikipedia is not a place to post original research. This means that if you make a new discovery or come up with a new theory, you should find someplace else to post it. What we are about is researching and summarizing ideas and information that have already been publicized elsewhere." [3]
However I don't feel that this is original research. It's not as if I'm the only one who knows this stuff.
By the way, I really don't care if this gets published or not, I just think it was a good topic of discussion. I was wondering if this information was relevant to the article.
HumphreyB 11:04, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
The poster above got it right, it's original research. Close look at the quoted section and the key word, I beleive is "publicized". Thier names haven't been published and as much double-checking and supporting evedence to show a particular person could be in TISM is hearsay through and through. Their names haven't been published or publicized so a member of TISM could very well be one of The Wiggles or Paul McDermott or any number of people who've been suggested in the past. Unless its based on fact (and its not cause their names havent been released and they wont be) it can't really go in Wikipedia. Gohst 12:10, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
But some of their names were in the credits of a television show. Doesn't that count for something? HumphreyB 10:25, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
Even though these names appeared in the credits, nothing actually links them to being the seven people who appeared on screen (Although it is obvious, it's not 'proof'.) Furthermore I agree with the arguement that the names should remain anonymous under every circumstance. The most convincing point for me is this: The purpose of the article is to understand TISM. The real names of TISM's members are not needed to understand TISM. In fact, to seek the identities of TISM is to MIS-understand TISM completely. Therefore, such information should never be part of the article. I would like to consolidate the "The Masks" section of the article to express the TISM philosophy and the reason TISM is anonymous, so that hopefully more people 'get' it. 203.47.209.4 07:58, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
This isn't a fan page, or some page they can use to further their careers. Its an encyclopedia entry, and any information that can be confirmed via a reliable source can be included in the article. Purposely censoring the article to maintain an "air of mystique" around the band doesn't serve wikipedia, and that kind of attitude just isn't welcome here.--Crossmr 05:44, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
I totally agree that we should post the names if they've been verified. Sorry, but this is an encyclopedia. If band members have done TV interviews unmasked, then the real issue is: who are you to say that the members' identities should be revealed if the members themselves have done so?
We should definitely put up what's out there rather than lying by saying the band have remained totally anonymous. Besides which, there exist spoiler tags for such content.
What I actually wanted to post is that I believe (on the basis of a review) that Debra Byrne reveals in her autobiography she was once a member. Can anyone confirm this? Leon 01:26, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
I agree with the above people. Keeping information from this article to serve the bands purpose is not what an encyclopedia does. I feel the names listed at the end of the Jamboree video should be included.
This article has become a mess: 12 months ago it was succinct, told visitors everything they needed to know about the group, and did not violate any wiki laws ... now it is bloated, convoluted, and includes tiny details that only have context to those fans considering themselves 'hardcore.' It reads as bragging - particularly the 'real names' section which is Original Research. Sure, TISM names are out there, and can assumed via a number of corroborating sources - the article should say so, and nothing more. --Penny lopez (talk) 03:14, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

John Safran's Music Jamboree is available on DVD[4], the show was broadcast on national television in Australia, the credits on the show list the composers of "(He'll Never Be An) Old Man River" as listed above.[5] Since this is a published source, it's not original research. These names can no longer be verified at the website of APRA [6] who now credit all TISM songs to "TISM". APRA does, however, list Damien Cowell as one of the composers for TISM spin-off ROOT! [7]--Design (talk) 13:15, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

You're right. However, I wouldn't say that information qualifies as 'publicised'. And although it is obvious, it's not "evidence". The Wiki article could say something along the lines of "Five writers were named for the TISM song "Ol' Man River" during the credits of John Safran's Music Jamboree. Most fans have accepted these as TISM's 'real names', but since neither the individuals nor TISM's management will confirm it, it remains conjecture." I believe that something like that is more accurate and appropriate for Wikipedia. Similarly, DC Root of ROOT! is obviously Humphrey B Flaubert of TISM, but despite hints or off-hand mentions, ROOT! would never *CONFIRM* this. Penny lopez (talk) 00:09, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
Do you mind explaining yourself more clearly? The references for that section are all reliable sources. The Age newspaper article, for example, SAYS: "Even pop satirists TISM got in on the act, with singer Ron Hitler-Barassi mocking [Jet's] claim to working-class roots. "They drove a f---ing forklift truck? Of course they did - their dad owned the f---in' factory!" he said, the attack all the more piercing considering TISM member Eugene Cester is the brothers' uncle. But Nic Cester says TISM have more than made up for the spray. "At the start, we knew how to write songs and play them, but we didn't know anything about recording contracts, so Eugene came to all of our early meetings and to this day Adrian, his brother, goes over our accounts with a fine tooth."The names which appear next to Swedish and German releases of Everyone Else is the same as the John Safran DVD credits. Root's press said he "was the friend of the uncle of the guys in Jet. Jock Cheese's name was on Festival Mushroom Records list of copyright owners. These are hardly airy-fairy claims. I'll admit some of the stuff is a bit iffy (the Everything2 links) but they seem to be there only to back up previously verified claims, adding more weight to them.I know they haven'r SAID it and never will... but its verifyable enough. And like the fellow Wikipedia Contributers above have said, if its verifyable it should go in. 124.181.233.170 (talk) 08:30, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
I will try and be more clear. I'm not disputing the 'name information', which can be cross-checked using various widespread (and sometimes dubious) sources, and some educated guessing. This sort of work should be left to the interested reader to discover. Further, 'sources' such as the article about a member attending Madame Butterfly made no mention of TISM. The book CWG does not contain any references to TISM at all. Failing the acceptance of those arguments, I point you to the first rule of Wikipedia, which is that any rule can and should be broken, if by braking that rule the encyclopedia improves. I propose that although Wikipedia rules allow the 'name' information to be included, it should NOT be included because it DEGRADES the quality of the article. An encyclopedia includes information essential to basic understanding of a given subject - Including TISM's 'real life' information is to mis-understand TISM completely, which effectively renders the article a failure. Penny lopez (talk) 02:06, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
If I may quickly comment on the removal of the picture on this part of the article: TISM did not perform unmasked, ever. The masks in the picture are a type of theatric mark where features such as lips, eyebrows and noses are exaggerated, hiding the performers true features. Penny lopez (talk) 02:09, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

While the previous version of the section was too detailed, the properly sourced information was appropriate for inclusion in the article. Here's some more info that should probably go in: [8] [9] --James (talk) 11:12, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image

The image which was used at the top of the article was deleted by the people who are in charge of images on wikipedia. Basically if anyone can find a free image of TISM that can go at the top of the article, please do so as soon as possible. Thanks. Gohst 07:53, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh, dont worry about this any more. Its long sorted. -Gohst 23:12, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 'I flip off' blog post

That's my blog. I'm stupidly happy to be linked to on Wiki, but I'm afraid that's a circular link; I got the quote off Wikipedia, meaning it has no value whatsoever as an independent cite. Sorry, guys? - Talen Lee, of the Lee Chimera —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.193.160.161 (talk) 01:13, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

That was my bad. The reference accompanying it (the Guide at everything2) was where the quote came from originally but for some reason was never linked to. After some time, I went searching for the quote, your site came up and I figured it would do. However after a while, the original reference was inserted and your site was just left there. Now that the original ref is there, the secondary source does seem redundant (and not to mention paradoxical) and has now been heave-hoed. Problem solved. Cheers. -Gohst 01:57, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notes

To help with your review, I suggest you put the names of the web pages (bbc.co.uk, or whatever) outside the link, and put Retrieved 15 October 2007 (or whatever) to show the link is not old or broken. Like this:

[http.TISM.com.linklinkliknliknk TISM go happy hunting blah,blah] TISM.com - Retrieved 15 October 2007

I will do the first couple to show you how it goes. (I looked at the videos of TISM on Youtube after reading your article, and I think they're bloody great, BTW. Thanks. :) --andreasegde 14:29, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

P.S., I have just checked one or two web pages and two have broken links, or are not available anymore. Check 'em at will... --andreasegde 14:38, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Failed GA

GA's cannot have {{trivia}}. Either integrate the trivia into prose, or if there really is a good reason for a trivia section (which is highly unlikely), remove the template. --Rschen7754 (T C) 04:52, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA related comment

I'm currently reviewing the article, just leaving myself (mainly) a note here so I don't forget. When this is passed, please be sure to add it to Portal:Music of Australia, or message me and I will. Cheers, — Dihydrogen Monoxide 00:24, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA nomination on hold

Yay, an Aussie band! We need more aussie GAs - Portal:Music of Australia is crying for some non-Powderfinger content (m'bad :P). Anyways, leave a note on my talk page when you've dealt with the issues below, and I'll go buy some TISM music because they sound awesome! Here goes... — Dihydrogen Monoxide 09:26, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

  • The image in the infobox must be a free image (this is what sucks about reviewing offline, I can't check that, but it doesn't look like one...)
  • The members section is generally placed lower in the article, between the style and discography sections.
  • References need to be placed after a full stop/comma. Virtually everywhere in this article, they are placed before the punctuation. This will take a while to fix, but it must be done - sorry.
  • Refs 3 and 4 don't need the bold text.
  • ""a pure sense of shared mediocrity"[5] and wrote more" - Need a comma before the ref, and after the quotation marks
  • "The concert, at the Duncan McKinnon Athletics Reserve was considered a complete failure which caused the band to officially split up." - You shouldn't include the external link in the article prose. If the concert is mentioned on that site, use it as a ref, else just remove the link (you can wlink to the general area it's in - Melbourne etc.)
  • Whilst TISM's history is obviously hilarious, you need to be sure you don't overdo it, and keep everything encyclopediac. I just saying this so I don't feel guilty when laughing while passing the article as GA :P
  • "Phonogram Records signed the band in 1989" - Standalone years shouldn't be wikilinked. Use a specific date if you have it.
  • "These performances were the last for guitarist Leek Van Vlalen." - Ref/Source?
  • "In mid-1991, independent giant Shock Records signed TISM" - "giant" isn't exactly a neutral statement here. Remove it, and say something like "In mid-1991, independant record label Shock Records signed TISM"
  • "and re-issued Truckin' Songs" - Use the full name (Great Truckin' Songs of the Renaissance)
  • The entire "Rise to fame" section is unsourced. Need sources for: signing with Shock, joining Tony Cohen, Tokin Blackman (LOL!) joining the band. So 3 refs are needed (or one source that covers everything, etc.)
  • It would be OK (and quite cool) to have an image of the Australia the Lucky Cunt cover art, to help illustrate the second paragraph of the "Rise to fame" section. Also, is there a ref for the re-release with a new name?
  • "Three of its singles reached Triple J's Hottest 100, two of them in the top 10." - Ref? Shouldn't be too hard, the JJJ100 charts for every year (ever) are hosted on their website, just cite those.
  • "Later the same year, TISM toured England – the group's sole Northern Hemisphere excursion." - Ref?
  • "and was consequently ignored by every music television show in Australia – even the usually liberal rage" - OK, this should really be removed. It could be offensive to rage, has POV, and is not encyclopediac. If there's a source saying that everyone ignored it, you can mention that.
  • "wanker.com sold reasonably well" - Use the full name (www.tism.wanker.com)
  • "The letter was published on TISM's website at the time." - This should be easily sourceable.
  • "however, sales were low compared to Machiavelli's success and TISM's contract with Shock was up." - Use the full name (Machiavelli and the Four Seasons), and change "was up" to "ended" or similar.
  • "After Shock" --> "After Shock Records"
  • "Following the wanker.com tour, TISM signed with Festival Mushroom Records which re-released their entire back catalogue on CD. Their first and only official album with FMR, De RigueurMortis (2001) débuted impressively at #24 on the ARIA chart[10] and #3 on the Alternative ARIA Chart" - A few things: Use full name (www.tism.wanker.com), change "FMR" to "Festival Mushroom Records", remove "impressively" as POV, see if you can find a ref for the Alternative ARIA chart (I don't think it's freely published, but you never know...it might be mentioned in an article about the band or something).
  • "Flaubert predicted on Triple J radio that the album would "plummet out of the top 40 like a stone"[11]; his prediction was unfortunately accurate." - Change to "Flaubert predicted on Triple J that the album would "plummet out of the top 40 like a stone",[11] something which happened soon after."
  • wlink for gig?
  • "Their contract with FMR was now fulfilled, and the band were let go." - Reword to "At this point, TISM's contract with Festival Mushroom Records ended."
  • "a "best of" compilation which included their "greatest hits," two new tracks and a disc of remastered "Bedroom Recordings"" - Remove the quotation marks, add a wlink to best of.
  • second paragraph of "After Shock" needs a ref/source
  • "A search for TISM brings up the Max. Pos. 63." (ref 13) - Can you get a link to this search?
  • "to the ABC's "My Favourite Album" program" - External links not needed in article prose, especially when you have the ref at the end of the sentence
  • "Later the same month, TISM were inducted into the EG Hall of Fame," - What's EG, and is there a wlink for it?
  • A few refs for the first paragraph of the "Identities" section....
  • It'd be good to see some more non-geocites refs in the article, wherever possible...
  • "Though a clear link can be drawn from The Residents' The Third Reich 'n' Roll video, in which the band wore Ku Klux Klan uniforms made of newspaper: TISM did exactly this at their first gig." - Reword, suggested "A clear link can be drawn from The Residents' The Third Reich 'n' Roll video, in which the band wore Ku Klux Klan uniforms made of newspaper, as TISM did the same thing in a gig." - You also need a source, at least to The Residents' video (even on youtube).
  • "Another link may be drawn to early TISM tracks "The Ballad Of The Semitic Nazi" or "I'm Gonna Treat Ya To A Neitschze Double Feature" which use a similar naming convention." - Similar naming convention to WHAT?
  • Last paragraph of Style section needs a non-TISM, non-geocities ref.
  • Most of the external links are not relevant as external links - they can be used as references instead. Only the first (official site) and last (MusicBrainz, provided it's a full discog) should be kept there. A MySpace link (for TISM, not ROOT!) could go there too.
  • Please upload the free images of the band to Commons. A Category:TISM can then be created there. You can contact me on Commons if you need help with that. Then, you can link to the commons images in this article using {{commonscat|TISM}}. See Powderfinger and Commons:Category:Powderfinger for an idea of what I'm talking about.

Reviewed version: [10]

Good luck, and leave me a note if you have any problems. Cheers, — Dihydrogen Monoxide 09:26, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

All items addressed, hopefully. Discussion of above notes and progress reports here and here. -Gohst (talk) 12:11, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
OK, passed. Congratulations, and nice work! — Dihydrogen Monoxide 23:00, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Not Anonymous - Remove this title from first line?

If their names are known then they are not anonymous, right? So the term "anonymous alternative rock band" is not true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.50.247.88 (talk) 14:39, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Acid house influence?

Due to the fact that TISM's influences aside from The Residents are not known, I just thought I'd bring to the table a thought that I had; their usage of the smiley face icon on the bestoff collection as well as on a previous version of their site, coupled with their recurring use of a Roland TB-303 style bassline generator (most prominently featured on www.tism.wanker.com) may suggest an Acid House influence? Their lyrics certainly indicate a knowledge of electronic music ("If you want house you go to Chicago, Brussels for hardcore, Detroit for techno...").

[edit] What's happened?

Damn, the article has lost a lot of content since passing GA. What's happened? giggy (:O) 02:28, 8 June 2008 (UTC)