Talk:Tip

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*Talk:Tip/Archive 1: Old and off-topic threads - August 2006


Contents

[edit] Tips in Spain, Wrong Information that I've deleted has been added again, DON'T ADD IT AGAIN

Please, If we want Wikipedia to be considered something serious, I don't understand why deleted wrong information is recuperated again. I writed below in this discussion why is this information delated. Somebody writed this again:

In fact, the Spanish term propina actually connotes bribery in Spain, not respect, as it means in Mexico .[1]

Reasons:

1. The term propina DOESN'T mean bribery in European Spanish. (And it doesn't mean that in any kind of Spanish, that statement about Mexican Spanish is not true too, probably is somekind of slang added by somebody that probably most of mexican are not agree with)

1.1 I'm from Spain and It's the first time in my whole life that I heard that tip means bribery, it's a complete nonsense.

1.2 I demostrate it adding the definition of 'propina' (tip) by Royal Spanish Academy's dictionary.

propina.

(Del b. lat. propina).

1. f. Agasajo que sobre el precio convenido y como muestra de satisfacción se da por algún servicio.

2. f. Gratificación pequeña con que se recompensa un servicio eventual.

3. f. Colación o agasajo que se repartía entre los concurrentes a una junta, y que después se redujo a dinero.


Translation

Propina, from latin propina

1. Gift added to the arranged price as sign of satisfation for the given service.

2. Little gratification to recompensate an ocasional service.

3. Light meal or gift that was given to the audience in a meeting, and that afterwards was converted to money .

Where is bribery here?!!!


2. Even accepting that tip means bribery in Mexico (thing that I doubt) In this parragraph we are talking about 'Tips in Spain' so this statement is out of place.

3. If we read the reference added to justify that tip means bribery in Mexican Spanish, We can this: Saran used the word “propina,” which in Mexican Spanish means tip, but in Portuguese the same word means “bribe.” . The reference says that tip means bribery in Portuguese not in Mexican Spanish. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.125.30.81 (talk) 11:08, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] United States

The section on the US is an absolute joke. This isnt a forum for discussion on a non-existent debate about tipping (except maybe a small section mentioning that there is disagreement as to whether the social convention is appropriate). The simple matter is that tips are expected in the US and this section needs to be a guide as to what is expected. I'll try to clean it up. -Anonymous

[edit] Tipping and Taxation

It would be nice if there was some mention of the US tax laws related to tipping. I don't know for sure (so I won't put it in the article), but many states consider the tips one receives at work as taxable income, even though a tip is not mandatory, and even while those same states allow large amounts of money (about $12,000/year) to be gifted to individuals tax free.

I've also heard in some news reports that some states 'assume' one will get a 15% tip and then tax someone for that amount even when they receive no tip, thus forcing the worker to pay taxes on money they never received.

[edit] Tipping and Wages

I've heard about some industries/states where tipping is common, to have modified minimum wage laws (for example, no minimum wage for bartenders) or even where the tip receiver has to share their tips with the business through shady 'indipendent contractor' schemes such as strippers who 'rent stage time' at strip clubs.

[edit] Tip Sharing

Perhaps a mention of the common (equitable) 'tip sharing' schemes in various industries, such has coctail waitresses sharing 50% of their tips with the bartenders, or waiters sharing 25% of their tips with the cooks.

Some of these might be overblown, or urban myths. But tax, wage, and labour laws related to tips are very important to some people.

Tiki God 19:27, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

As a server in a Canadian restaurant, I can tell you that we share a portion of our tips with bartenders and kitchen staff. At our particular restuaurant we share 2.5% of gross sales with the kitchen and 1% of gross sales with the bar. Assuming a tip of 10% (low) 25% of said tip goes to the kitchen, and 10% to the bartender, leaving 65% for the server. If there is no tip, the server must pay out of their own pocket to cover this tipout, thus on a 100 dollar bill, if there is no tip, the server must give 1 dollar to the bar and 2.50 to the kitchen out of their own wallet. Most customers don't realize this.

[edit] Europe

From the artice:

In general, in the European Union and other parts of Europe, tipping is rather uncommon, although there are regional variations.

This seems completely untrue. In almost every country in Europe where I've lived or where I've been to (except for Iceland and possibly Italy), a 5-10% tip is normal -- but not mandatory -- in restaurants. Tipping for other services depends on the country you're in, but cab drivers generally do get tips all over Europe.

[edit] Spain

the Mexican Spanish term propina actually connotes bribery, not respect, as in European Spanish.

The reference cited does not mention European Spanish at all, but Brazilian Portuguese. I've seen nothing indicating this is a Mexican term, or that the Spanish do not use it, or that the Spanish prefer a different term. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.99.16.65 (talk) 01:22, 4 September 2007 (UTC) 4.- The term "Propina" is not a Mexican Spanish term. All around Latin America the term propina means "Tip" or "Gratuity". The meaning of "Propina" of the dictionary of the Real Spanish Academy (Diccionario de la Real Lengua Espanola) doesn't connotes any bribary and is clear in the meaning that "Propina" is a gratuity or tip for a received service. As a reference: http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltConsulta?TIPO_BUS=3&LEMA=propina —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.233.139.133 (talk) 23:19, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] UK

It is not correct that tips in the UK are optional. This could give tourists the wrong impression. Many restuarants and bars in the UK keep their pay particularly low in the hope that customers will tip the staff. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.86.161.186 (talk) 08:58, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the above anonymous commenter. The UK section is incorrect. Tipping is not only considered in restaurants when the meal is "particularly good." 10% or more is quite customary at restaurants where, say, you'd be paying more than £10 a head or so (that is, it's not typically considered in cafés or fish and chip restaurants). I will be back to fix this if there is no debate on this. Coop (talk) 21:05, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] belgium

it is completely untrue about the drinks we are cheaper than france and the netherlands with the drinks and tipping is done when your satisfied with the service most of the time a keep the change offer


---Tipping is rare here in Belgium. Only when you want to impress the waitress or you are well off or a tourist. Leaving the change is something that happens often though. 213.214.57.217 (talk) 22:51, 29 February 2008 (UTC)Hicham Vanborm

[edit] Germany

The remark under Etymology regarding tipping being now called "Hahn" or similiar is total BS. It`s still called "Trinkgeld" or "Tip".

[edit] Hong Kong

"For enhaustic service, at least HK$10 may be needed". 'Enhaustic' is not a word, but I cannot correct this because I don't know what word was intended: possibly 'enthusiastic' or 'exhaustive'?

Hopefully not "encaustic" 172.132.26.86 05:37, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

The Hong Kong section was terrible. The entire article is poorly written, but the Hing Kong part was the worst, due to the overwhelming amount of arbitrary detail put into this one section. I think it is likely the original author was from HK.

I removed the word that does not exist, and many of the examples of situations in which tipping is not customary. If we are going to list every situation that does not require a tip, this article will go on forever.

The original author actually included that it is not customary to tip in movie theaters, massage parlors (legitimate and "other") and fast food franchises. That is totally redundant and unnecessary information. Reference to these places and situations would only belong in an article like this if a) Tipping *was* customary in those situations, or if b) tipping was *strangely* uncustomary in those situations.

A lot more work needs to be done on this article but I couldn't leave this section the way it was, it bugged me. Drewson99 21:26, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

I tagged the Hong Kong section as unreferenced. If no information is sourced in a couple weeks, the section should be removed. -Agyle 15:22, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Penny under the Plate

Please cite the claim that for really poor service you may leave a penny under the plate. I have never seen this happen nor heard of it occuring. --M Drusus 00:09, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

I've heard of the practice of leaving a "three-penny" tip (for the same reason that you'd leave a penny under the plate -- a penny just lying on the table could be an accident, but this way it's an obvious insult). In fact, I've done it myself, but I have no source to cite for it.
I've heard of the practice of leaving a penny face up, to indicate good service, but that the customer just doesn't have the funds to tip properly -- I believe this was started during the Depression Era -- and leaving a penny face down to indicate bad service. I have no sources for this, but if anyone else has heard it, and can cite a source, it certainly seems relevant to the history and practice of the custom. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.28.224.198 (talk) 23:19, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
I removed an unsourced, possibly-related claim in the article earlier today, that a penny might be left as a tip (didn't mention under the plate) to indicate poor service. I've been looking at sources on U.S. cultural customs, and it seems the contemporary custom is to leave at least 10% even for poor service, though any amount is certainly legal, and I'm sure people have left a penny on occasion. I'll keep an eye out for sources on one-cent tips. -Agyle 15:27, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] No tipping in Japan? I dissagree!

I`m not sure why it is mentioned "Tipping is not the custom in Japan and it is almost never done."

I am currently working in a Japanese hotel, and let me say that I recieve lots of tips from japanese people. And I stress, this is not a case of being confused between Japanese and Western custom, it is a genuine Japanese tip.

Tipping in japan is strange, I will add. It is by no means expected but is seen as a voluntary action to either express personal wealth, status or just to be nice. Japanese when they do tip, tend to tip big. That is, anything from ¥500-10,000 (US $5-100) is common for a porter/bellboy, reguardless of the number or size of bags. Though it is somewhat rare that I or anyone I work with to recieve anything less than ¥1,000 ($10) from a single customer. They tend to come from either younger upwardly mobile sorts or from the elderly, who seem to tip out of a kind of grandmother/ grandfather complex. Asside from that, its just about impossible to spot who is going to tip but usiually its in the range of 1/20 to 1/50 customers.

This is kinda highlighted again in the hostessing industry, where you can be expect to be tipped several hundred dollars (equivelant) just for bringing a drink. While this is certainly a very special circumstane it certainly highlights the culture of japanese tipping. I myself have been tipped ¥10,000 ($100) a number of times so far, often just for a single bag.

Asside from that though, I can`t really speculate about other industries without having worked in them. It would be good if anyone else with any working experiance in Japan can comment further.

The text currently says "...it is almost never done in casual restaurants,..." and thus does not contradict that hotel tipping may be more common. I'm not sure if it was that way when you added your comments. In any case, no reference is provided for the section, and I added unreferenced and disputed tags. Someone familiar with Japanese culture may better able to find an accurate, up-to-date source. Customs seem to be changing in much of East Asia, and even recently-written U.S. sources, relying on past publications, may be repeating obsolete information. -Agyle 15:38, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I've heard some people tend to tip at Japanese hotel (ryokan). Personally, I think it is a bribery and very snobbish act.

Also some people tip to doctor or nurse at hospital. But recently tipping is considered bribery and prohibited by hospital rule. 59.159.102.12 16:45, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Karaoke DJs

I've gone to plenty of karaoke nights - in NH, Mass, and Washington - and I have never once seen or even heard mention of anyone tipping the karaoke DJ. Can anyone back this up?

I live in Washington and among my circle of friends at least, tipping the karaoke DJ is seen as an obligation, but failing to do so is not quite as rude as, say, stiffing a waitress or delivery person. He deserves a couple of bucks for having to listen to drunk assholes belt out 'Welcome to the Jungle' 5 times a night, don't you think? :P PS but related - Tipping nightclub/party DJs is not common, and they will rarely have a jar out unless the event is a charity fundraiser. However, if you approach them between mixes with a dollar or two, they will be much more inclined by your thoughtful gesture to play the song you request. ;)

[edit] Pizza delivery guy

"The deliverer pays for his or her fuel. Many drivers are contractors who receive no hourly wage."

I have never heard of this being the case. I have some friends who are delivery drivers, they work for the company, are compensated for gas, and receive hourly wages. I think this might be an example of someone who delivers pizzas trying to guilt people into tipping extra. 128.138.169.103 21:58, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Incorrect, sir. I deliver pizzas, and I am the one who added this to the section. While it is true that for major corporate chains drivers are given a wage and occasionally gas money, for most local businesses the drivers are independent contractors. This serves the dual purpose of relieving the employer of liability as well as allowing them to have a delivery service at no cost to themselves. The delivery charge (usually $1.00 - $1.50) goes directly to them in this case, mostly to compensate them for the cost of fuel, brakes, repairs, etc.
A good rule of thumb is that if the delivery driver has on a uniform, they are store employees. The second best indicator is a car "topper" or sign. If someone is delivering to your house with no uniform and no sign, they are most likely independent contractors. If they have no uniform but do have a sign, they could be employees but it's not as likely. (One business I know of uses contractors but lets them keep more of the delivery charge if they use a topper) If they are wearing a uniform and have a topper, they are hourly employees.Mr. Sparkle 21:40, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
I used to work at a pizzaria (as a cook, not as a driver). The driver's received a wage per-mile in addition to their salary, the intent of which was to pay for gas with it. I don't consider this as the driver paying for gas, so I think the absoluteness of this statement could be reworded to show that it isn't always and unequivocally the case.--Hawk405359 04:52, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
I admit that YMMV, but in every case I personally know of, having worked in the industry and knowing other drivers in the area, local shops do not pay their drivers. They run on small margins and don't want to have the liability hanging over their heads. That's also fewer people they have to deal with in terms of reporting taxes.Mr. Sparkle 02:16, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
I recently noticed that the Dominos chainin some areas is charging a small delivery fee. Question - should the Deliver's tip be reduced as a result ? Thanks for your input.
No one can really tell you what you need to tip. However, from people I know who worked at Dominos, that delivery charge is quite small, and even then, the driver's don't always receive it. In some cases the restaurant even takes that money as compensation for paying a driver's wage. Generally I'd say just give $2 or 10% of the total you're asked for.Mr. Sparkle 02:16, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
I am a delivery driver for Papa John's, and have delivered pizza for about 5 years at different places. Before gas became more expensive, I would get "mileage" of around $.15 per delivery. Currently our store charges a delivery fee of $1.50, but we only get $1.00 per delivery for mileage. The delivery charge alone doesn't cover the total car expense, if you allow for around $.30-.40 per mile for gas/ wear and tear, and an average of 4-6 miles per delivery(I average about 8 miles per delivery, but we have a large delivery area.) One customer I had who claimed to be a former delivery driver suggested to me that you should tip the change for an order below $10 (i.e. if the price is $6.50, you would give them $7.00 and let them keep the change.) For $10-20 you would give an additional dollar, for $20-30 an additional two dollars, etc. Of course, I like 15%, but the above seems pretty fair to me, with maybe a little more if you are a long way from the store. --71.75.62.194 06:06, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Slovenia

Being from Slovenia, I can say for sure tipping is not that uncommon here. It is in no case obligatory and would most probably be considered very rude to be expected (what are the wages then for?), but it is seen as a nice gesture form the customer and is usually happyly accepted. Especially at the restaurants and sometimes bars it is not uncommon to round the final sum up a bit, particulary if the service has been exceptional. Even in some shops tipping is not that uncommon, when a customer wants to reward a kind service.

[edit] India

I disagree with what is written under India. Its written about Indian Americans and not about Indians in India.

In India you do have to leave tips at restuarants where service is provied,not at self service ones. Tips also paid at Valet Parking, home delivery and many others. The term Bakshish means tip

[edit] Hong Kong

Noticed the cleanup notice on Hong Kong. One immediate change should be to "waiters may feel weird..." There has got to be a better way of putting this, but I'm not even too sure what it means. --Mucus 16:23, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Iceland

I removed "except when a customer wants to show appreciation for exceptionally good service" which does not reflect local custom. Tipping is simply never ever expected in Iceland and locals never ever do it. --D. Webb 00:05, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] End Links

I recommend removing Straight Dope Staff Report: Should a restaurant tip be based on the check before or after tax? from the links. It belabors a minute point and is not worth the time invested. Another Straight Dope page is linked if one desires to read that site further.

[edit] References needed

IMHO, most of this article, such as the detailed list for the U.S., looks like either original research or opinion, none of which are encyclopedic. This topic, by its very nature, is a bit fuzzy; however, if Wikipedia is going to give such detailed tipping percentages, it should either cite published empirical studies about tipping habits, or published opinions by notable sources (at least a printed tourist guide!). Itub 02:23, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. There are lots of unsourced tipping percentages and statements that are too POV. Commonly unsourced words to look out for in this article include "usually", "appropriate", "commonly", etc. Added a few of the appropriate templates to warn the reader --Mucus 05:08, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
I agree with this, too. I'll go ahead and take out some parts which are unlikely to be adequately sourced in the foreseeable future. -- Alan McBeth 03:59, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
Also quite a bit of the use of the second person "you" and "your", adding the appropriate template --Mucus 05:17, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Service Sector Professional

Could the phrase "services sector professional" be changed to something less pompous and more accurate? Lawyers are professionals. Physicians are professionals. The person in the lavatory who brushes my coat for a small tip is not a professional in the same sense. Neither is the person who brings my food and drink. Being a valuable and essential employee does not equate to being in a profession.

Agreed. Consulting with Professionals, the majority of employees noted on this page do not meet any of the characteristics listed. --Mucus 22:58, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tipping in US Casinos

US Casino information from inputs on: http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g191-s606/United-States:Tipping.And.Etiquette.html

  • Drink Server in a casino or bar: $1-$2 per drink. Some tip $5 for the first drink to make sure the waitress "remembers" them and returns often...
  • Dealers at Table Games in the Casinos: 5% of bet amount at end of session, or occasional bet for dealer in amount of your normal wager-dealer can show you where to place bet. You could announce "I have a $xx bet for the dealers, where do you want it?". The bet is usually placed in front of the player's bet. If you're concerned about having your bets rated for comps, place the additional bet on top of your own and tell the dealer that part of your bet is in play for the dealer and as long as your hands keep winning, keep toking the dealer with the winnings from that portion of the bet. The initial bet amount would be $1 - $5.
  • Slot machines host : $10-20 if they make a hand payout (over $1000)
  • Showroom captains: $1-2 for the person who seats you, more if you asked for "special" seating - $20 for a requested booth or table, more for one up front.

[edit] Second Person

For the two that removed the template for inappropriate person, I refer you to [[1]] and Second person. This article is littered with phrases like "...you will..." or "...you should..." or the word "your". This is clearly not-encylopedic, nor appropriate for Wikipedia so please leave the template up till this is corrected. I can only assume the problem is that most are only familiar with first person and seeing the article is devoid of it, assume that the appropriate cleanup has been done. Thanks --Mucus 18:40, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Take-Out

Taking this out of the article. Argue your disputes in discussion, not in the article. Contradictiory text follows:

[This is not an accurate statement. Servers, Bartenders, and most often the Host/Hostess must package the food you are picking up. This takes time away from other customers and if no tip is left for this service, then is reduces the workers bottom line. A 15% tip is customary.]

Mucus 13:16, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I would dispute the fact that bagging a sandwich, or putting a piza in a box warrants the same tip percentage as someone providing conventional waitress/waiter service.
I understand your opinion that packaging the food does not warrent the same tip as one would give for the service given during a dine in meal; however the point is that you are still recieving a service and thus it warrents at least some kind of tip.
??? To clarify - The actual point here was: I disagree with the 15% level. I never said anything about giving no tip.
The last edit was both in second person and gives advice, two things contrary to the Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Avoid_the_second_person Manual of Style and Wikipedia is not an instruction manual Mucus 04:06, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Fast food baggers do not get tipped plain and simple. You don't tip the cashier for bagging your groceries at the supermarket do you?

No, you do not tip the cashier at a supermarket or fast food employees. But these employees make at least minimum wage. Servers and bartenders at restaurants, except in rare occasions, do not make more than 3 or 4 dollars an hour. Tipping is built into their wages in order for them to be able to make a living -AaronL 06:00, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
In Mexico City it is customary to tip the kids that bag the groceries at the supermarket. They are usually around 16 years old and do not receive any salary; all they get is the tips. Itub 14:26, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
This is true in all Mexico. Eagle.ed (talk) 20:41, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "At bars" in US

I do not like this paragraph:

Sometimes while at a bar with good drink specials, like $1.00 draft beers, your tab could only be $10.00 for the entire night. When in a situation like that, take into play the amount of time you were sitting at the bar or cocktail waitresses table. A 20 percent tip is not exceptable if you took up the spot for hours upon hours. Tip on the time you were there, the service and think about what your tab would have been if it wasn't for the drink special. Bartenders and servers are depending on your tip to make a living, meanwhile you're having a grand time getting sloshed for ten bucks.

It's written way too casually for an encyclopedia, and doesn't cite sources, and misuses "excepted" ("accepted" should be there.) The sentiment is correct, though. I'd like to rewrite it to something along the lines of "Sometimes drink specials or coupons will significantly lower one's bill compared to the official or menu prices; in these circumstances one should deliberate on the duration of the visit and the service besides simply considering the bill's total." But I don't have sources, either, that's just my opinion about tipping at bars (or anywhere one sits around for a long time and isn't spending as much as one would without deals.) Thoughts?...Mkilly 17:33, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Barter Tipping

Not sure what to call this, and in any case it would count as original research; but in the US it's been my experience that auto mechanics doing above-and-beyond and/or after-hours service, get either a six-pack or a case of beer (depending upon service). Although fairly common, it's appreciated much more than the obligatory 15% restaurant tip. I'm sure this happens in other industries as well. Considering if there's any reason to/way to include this in the article?--Justfred 17:13, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tipping in France

From the article:

In France, service charge is always included and tipping is usually not expected, though most people will leave 1 or 2€ after a typical restaurant meal.

I have no idea how common it is, but 10% of the bill, in restaurants (not in fast foods, and seldom in family restaurants -), should be rather common... (probably more, for good service, if you spilt your glass or something like this, or in expansive restaurants). In bars, moreover if you are seating at a table, tipping is somewhat expected... (depending on people and the place, you might be seen as stingy, if you don't tip, though most of times, moreover if you are friendly, it should not be a problem at all... it's the same as in restaurants, in fact... and as in restaurants, if you spilt something, or for good service, you might give a bit more...).

And as with other countries where tipping is not uncommon, you might tipp in hairdressers (there is often a dedicated box -as they often share the money between the hairdressers), in hotels (depending on services and price of the stay), for food delivery services (usually, 1-2 euros -proportional to the bill, though). For movers, this probably is very common, even expected (with the addition of some cold beer, most often). In restrooms, if there is someone (pretty rare... mostly in some big department stores), or a box (it's becoming more common, notably in family restaurants and fast foods), it is usually written the amount commonly given (0.20-0.50 euro; if there is someone, it might even be compulsory -if so, it is written). In taxis, though not mandatory, tipping should be pretty common, moreover if the driver helped you with your luggages, if you made him wait or if there is traffic jams (as they are paid depending on distance, not time), if he helped you to get on, or if your destination is a bit hard to find... In garages, tipping also is common, for any services by employees.

Sometimes (quite rare), it might be written that the employees do not accept tips (mostly in some restaurants and hotels).

Most of time, it should not be seen as rude not to tip, if you are friendly, and do not cause any problem (in this case, if the employee ask or wait for a tip, *he* would be seen as rude, by most people).

Most of time, you can simply tell the employee to keep the change (even if a bit lower than a normal tip), or leave, without mentioning it (even if the employee left the change on the table), in restaurants and bars.

Many young people, if they do not work (or did work) in places where tipping is common (or know well, someone who do), do not tip, and find it strange, if not annoying (annoying as in "I paid the bill, and I don't have that much money"). If the employee is young too, he probably won't mind at all (expect maybe in bars, though, as said above, if you are friendly and do not cause any problem, there should not be any problem with not giving a tip), but older employees might take it a bit less well (same as always, however, if you are friendly and do not cause any problem).

For firefighters (probably refused as a policy, but I'm not sure at all), policemen (probably illegal, and will anyway most probably be refused strongly), postal service (except for private transporters, for really big parcels, though it should be rare, and might be refused, as a corporate policy, by the employee... for delivery of machines and furniture, be it by craftsman or or chain/department stores, a tip might be expected, or at least common... though, depending on people, the employee might refuse it), garbage collectors, and gardians and cleaning women if you live in a building, no tip is given, but it is expected you give 5-10 euros (for really good service, up to 15-20 euros), at the end of the year -sometimes, it starts at the end of october, as most people seldom give money to everyone (some people might even get rather angry, when five or six people come to sell calendars, when they come too soon after the previous one came...)-, when then come sell calendars... (though it is not strictly seen as rude not to give anything -though commonly accepted that you should give something-, except, often, for gardians and cleaning women, in buildings -well, if you are not at home, no one will insist, though).


I won't include these informations in the article (well, they should be reformated, anyway), as I'm not really sure about how common this is, and as I'm really not into money things (though it should be clear I like to spend time talking about the most random things ^_^;). I hope someone can make any use of this comment.

Mathieu Bonnet 13:21, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sizzler

Unknown what tax rules that employees of Sizzler locations are subject to, as orders are generally not attributable to a server, but they generally take ok care of me and I leave a tip of around 15% of pretax. knoodelhed 20:58, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Books on tipping

I found a couple of books on tipping via Google's book search: [2] The Itty Bitty Guide to Tipping By Stacie Krajchir, Carrie Rosten; and Tipping Guide for Gratuitous Folks By Milan E. Wight. I don't have either book, but they look like they might be useful references for this Wikipedia article. Itub 18:17, 27 November 2006 (UTC)


The definitive book on tipping in the United States is "Tipping: an American Social History of Gratuities" © 1998 by Kerry Segrave, McFarland & Company, Inc. ISBN 0-7864-0347-0, available through your local bookstore.

K. Kellogg-Smith 21:55, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Maids and hairdressers

Maids and hairdressers are other commonly tipped professions that should be covered.

[edit] Comments on the Non-Encyclopedic Style of the Page's Content and More...

Many comments here regarding the content of this page not being "encyclopedic". Since "tipping", or the leaving of gratuities, is a custom that varies greatly from culture to culture, and is also a personal matter to most folks, I can understand why making the content sound more encyclopedic is difficult. Hard and fast reference articles lend themselves much more to standardization of content style. Look at other pages that deal with the customs of various cultures and that content style is usually different from the normal encyclopedic style found here. In my non-expert opinion, if content such as this - involving cultural customs and personal decisions - is expected to be written in a purely encyclopedic style, then it should include only factual information, like the legal aspects of tipping in various countries and the tax consequences and/or benefits of tipping. The questions of whom should tip or be tipped, and when people should tip would be better relegated to external links to travel reference and etiquette books.

Personally, I give tips to anyone providing me personally with a service who does so in a pleasant and competent manner. And the amount of the tip is proportional to how satisfied I am with the service. (And, yes, in my personal case, this includes my mailman and any take-out food delivery persons who perform adequately).

[edit] You lazy buggers

All the complaining on this page. Rather than everyone posting exactly what they want to happen and expecting someone else to do it, why not DO IT YOURSELF? Bennyboyz3000 09:29, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh you are so right! But could someone else put in hebrew characters the hebrew words that appear in the article? Thank you. 88888 14:25, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] We should add arguments for and against tipping.

--Steven X 05:12, 17 January 2007 (UTC)::

Wtf is wrong with you? Name one reasonable argument against tipping.Eno-Etile 08:02, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Guess you couldn't think of one. There is a reason for that. You know what it is? There aren't any.Eno-Etile 06:28, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Umm, how about: A) The person is already being paid for arriving to work with a good attitude and giving appropriate customer service; B) If their service is consistently poor, it shouldn't be bribed to adequate levels. Instead, the person should be terminated and replaced with someone with a good and professional manner; C) Many people dining at a restaurant did not expect to pay as much as they do for adding tip and tax, and many of the prices listed in the talk page for tipping could be construed as ludicrous; D) Automatically tipping (and expecting a tip or altering behavior as an implied quid pro quo for tips) reduces the actual impact of the tip, which is to encourage continued excellent service. Those are off the top of my head, we could consult Mr. Pink as well ;) . This is especially problematic when considering that sometimes there is retaliation for not giving a tip, or a tip is expected as if those offering the service are entitled to them. I've worked in restaraunts and fast food places, and I enjoy a tip for a job well done, but there ARE arguments against tip. It's probably just that Steven X just wanted to note them. Since some people do not tip and argue why they shouldn't tip, while others tip generously, it is worthwhile to include possible reasons on both sides.
Already being paid... you know server's get paid half minimum wage right? If you raise the pay of the servers the cos of ALL the food goes up and then even lousy service is rewarded at the customer's expense.Eno-Etile 01:28, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
I agree that such a section might be useful, but it would be controversial, edit-war-prone, and most likely un-encyclopedic. As far as reasonable arguments against, how about the fact that it's both arbitrary and customary and thus does not tend to reflect level of service (I tip around 15 percent no matter what the level of service, just because it's expected)? Any arguments about salary inequity don't make sense - it's not that we tip because salaries are below minimum wage; salaries are low because of expected tipping (I don't think we would ever ask "how much do you make" before leaving a tip). Why are tips higher in more expensive restaurants, where the difficulty of providing service may be lower and the base salary may be higher? And why do we tip at restaurants but not at the hardware store, electronics store, or the auto shop (but we do tip at the car wash)? Why not tip at fast food places? Why is it that problems with the food that may be the fault of the chef or the establishment are "punished" by low tipping? And you don't tip on an airplane because they're "safety crewmembers" that just happen to serve food and drink? Etc. etc. Seems like a major can of worms that there are better places to argue than the encyclopedia.--Justfred 16:47, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Fair enough I suppose. I sort of initially misunderstood what steven x was saying (I assumed he meant "stiffing" somone on the tip).Still tipping tends to give servers and others who work for tips a higher income than they could otherwise expect. I've worked with waitresses who went home with 100+ a day as opposed to the minimum wage day of $44 (at the time). But screw it my opinion is POV.Eno-Etile 06:15, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
From Lynn, Zinkhan, Harris "Consumer Tipping: A Cross-Country Study" (1993, Journal of Consumer Research v20 #3):
  • Tipping Increases Power Differences. Service workers who receive tips generally occupy menial, lowstatus jobs such as that of bartender, cab driver, porter, or waiter (Hemenway 1984). The practice of tipping reinforces and makes salient the inferior status of these workers. The fact that customers may decide how much to tip after services have already been rendered gives the customer power over service workers and communicates distrust in the servers' work ethic (Hemenway 1984).
  • Tipping Increases Uncertainty. Tipping increases uncertainty for both service workers and their customers. Tips represent a large portion of many service workers' incomes (Schmidt 1985). However, tip income is often variable and is never guaranteed. As Butler and Skipper (1980) write, "The dictates of custom cannot provide the security of the contract. With no contract to specify tips, one's wages are uncertain" (p. 490).
  • Tipping Weakens Organizational Commitment. One of the less obvious consequences of tipping is that it weakens service workers' ties to the organizations that employ them. Service employees often experience role conflict stemming from the competing demands of their customers and their supervisors (Shamir 1980). To the extent that service workers are dependent on customers for tips, they are likely to assign greater weight to customers' demands than to demands from their supervisors. Furthermore, research suggests that tipping increases the role conflicts experienced by service workers and decreases their job satisfaction (Shamir 1983).
  • Tipping Weakens Social Relationships. The final consequence of tipping to be discussed in this article is that it weakens the social relationships between customers and servers. Money is a generalized store of value that is used as a medium of economic exchange (Furnham and Lewis 1986). It is generally considered inappropriate to give money as a gift (Hussein 1984; Webley, Lea, and Portalska 1983) or as a form of reciprocation in close social relationships (Foa 1971). Thus, monetary tips weaken the social relationships between customers and service workers and reduce their interactions to economic exchanges (Shamir 1984).

Here's another one

  • Tipping Encourages Racism Against Customers If there is a perceived or actual difference in the amount of tips given by individuals of certain races, nationalities, religions or ethnicities, waiters may use this fact to provide a lower standard of service to these customers. See, e.g. http://www.entrepreneur.com/tradejournals/article/113135677.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Agnamus (talk • contribs) 20:51, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright violation

The section on Italy appears to be copied from [3].⇒Bayerischermann - 17:50, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ideally

Ideally we can spin out each region into its own article eventually (Tipping in South America, etc.), which will make the article much easier to manage, but we need to get sources for all these random inclusions first.

Also, there should be a solid section on the "tipping controversy" (as highlighted in Reservoir Dogs), the debate over whether it's a valid practice or not. That's a lot more interesting than a list of every country on Earth. tilde 06:54, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] More info requested: tip the proprietor or not?

I'm in the US and a friend of mine insists that if, at a restaurant, you are served by the "proprietor of the establishment" tipping is not required. To me, this makes some sense, assuming "proprietor" to mean the owner or someone who receives a significant amount of the profits. But this usually happens at Steak 'N' Shake, when they are understaffed and a manager serves us. First of all, I don't think a Steak 'N' Shake manager qualifies as a "proprietor" as they are hired workers and not shareholders. They are paid (my friend would say overpaid to do almost nothing, but then again, they seem to always be hiring managers, so there must be a major downside to the job) to be managers, and if they also serve food to the customers, I think they deserve a tip, because that's not part of their job description. So who's right? (User:VidTheKid not signed in) 69.95.28.97 04:07, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tipping at the Grocery Store in the US

The page says that tipping is not expected for grocery store baggers but fails to mention that at least in some regions of the US, a tip is expected if the bagger carries your groceries to your car, and is usually $0.25 to $1. Some grocery stores do forbid this (such as Publix) but their baggers usually receive and accept tips anyway. I haven't found ay sources to cite (other than my anectodal ones) which is why I haven't changed the article, but thought I'd mention it.

[edit] Universal Etiquette?

Frequently, this article uses statements like "It is not appropriate to"... I've worked in many fast food establishments where tip jars are available. Many of those establishments have employees who are nigh-simultaneously ringing up the customers, preparing their food, dealing with customer service complaints, restocking beverages such as soda fountains, wiping down tables, etc. And I've had many a late night where my food was brought out to me at KFC or Jack-in-the-Box. The tip in this instance is an incentive for horrendously underpaid US fast food workers to make the food healthily, maintain a good attitude and respond to customer complaints with tact and promptness. Obviously it's hard to establish things like this, but at least qualify statements somehow, say by referring to an accepted guide to etiquette and noting that particular opinion on who should be tipped. Anytime an article begins to talk about oughts and shoulds rather than whats and whos, it's violating NPOV. 209.77.79.7 02:12, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

I could train a monkey to work fast food. There is no reason to tip them. Waiters make around $2.00 an hour, while even the most horrendously underpaid fryer jockey get's $5.1571.85.10.88 20:55, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Taxis in the United States

I notice that tipping for taxis is mentioned for some countries, but not the United States. JNW2 01:28, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anonymous user changing United States

An anonymous user or users keeps changing the restaurant tipping rate for the US from 15-20% to 10-15%, even after I've added a citation for the 15-20% numbers. We may need to consider requesting semiprotection. -- Mwalcoff 22:59, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

: Probably someone who doesn't want to admit that hes cheap... Eno-Etile 01:30, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Australia section is completely wrong

Tipping is not rare, and certainly is not insulting OR discouraged. I worked as porter in several hotels and 20-30% of my wage was made up in gratuities. I don't know how to source this though, as original research isn't allowed...but i know its WRONG! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.131.135.99 (talk) 06:58, August 27, 2007 (UTC)

Yes it is completely wrong.

I don't know where the author got their impression that it is not customary to tip in Australia. As someone working as a waiter I can vouch for the fact that the majority of customers tip. It is more a case of tipping being the norm and not tipping being an accepted rebuke from a customer who may think that the service was not up to scratch. Not recieving a tip is an insult to a waiter's standards of service in Australia - but it would be very rare for an Austalian waiter to demand to know a customer's reasons for not tipping.

Tipping, whilst appreciated, is not usually expected by taxi drivers or bartenders in Australia, although at high-end bars you sometimes recieve your change on a plate.

Not every eatery expects tips, you don't tip at McDonalds for instance. Although a good rule of thumb is that if a restaurant is formal enough to issue your bill to you at your table instead of you having to go to a counter to pay directly, then a tip of around 10% is customary for solid, if unremarkable, service. (If the majority of people pay at their tables, anticipating the bill and paying at the counter does not mitigate the expectancy of a tip).

Lofnazareth 19:35, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I've never tipped, or seen anyone tip. PonThePony 02:57, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

I added the current text, which says "A Sydney Morning Herald article says...," but I'm completely unfamiliar with Australian tipping customs. The statement is verifiably true, they did say that, but maybe the Herald is wrong, or overgeneralized. Maybe the Herald article should have said "in Sydney" or "in more expensive establishments" rather than just "in Australia." If tipping is so uncommon that someone has never seen it happen, it does sound dubious. A better source on the topic would be great. -Agyle 04:09, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
I can only assume that "ponthepony" hasn't ever seen people tip before because he/she has never eaten in an Australian city restaraunt, either that or they only ever eat alone - in which case "pon" must also think that there are a lot of forgetful Australian diners who leave money lying around on tables after they leave.
Obviously people might be suspicious about my motives as I have stated that I work as a waiter (I am also a student) and therefore I have a vested interest in being tipped. However, the advantage of my position is that I get to see how a number of people tip and I can assure you that 10% is quite common, although I must also admit that there is a small prportion of people who leave nothing (I'm looking at you "pon").
Of course none of this matters much because, as Agyle points out, neither "pon" nor myself can be construed as a reliable source. Nevertheless I felt compelled to respond when I noticed that someone (Agyle) was taking "pon" seriously.
I will keep an eye out for some better sources on this matter but in the meantime Agyle's sources are not too bad, even though I think that the Herald article is misleading as it lumps Austalian tipping culture in with the less generous New Zealand tipping culture. Lofnazareth 07:40, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
I disagree mate. In all of my live and travels around the south east coast of Australia, I have never been asked, obligated or invited to tip at a restaurant or hotel. In Australia, we dont really have a tipping culture. Perhaps more common is to an offer when paying cash for a transaction for a seller to “keep the change” to avoid a pocket filled with coins. More common is the gesture to drop these coins into a charity tin near the cash register to raise money for the local fire service, rotary club, UNICEF or other charity. Employers here are obligated to met a minimum or living wage. Hospitality or domestic staff draw upon a reasonable salary. The 1908 Australian Harvester Judgment ruled that an employer was obliged to pay his employees a wage that guaranteed them a standard of living which was reasonable for “a human being in a civilized community”, regardless of his capacity to pay. The judgment was later overturned but still remains very influential. This “safety net” once helped me to survive life through college as a waiter with some dignity without the need to rely on gratuities or tips. --220.253.41.6 (talk) 10:00, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

The Sydney Morning Herald article is not in itself a reliable source - they are just quoting a website (tipping.org). I doubt tipping.org is reliable either. I think I will remove the quote, which will not leave much in the section. Barrylb (talk) 15:59, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Page clear

All unsourced information (much of it dating to before February 2007 with no improvement) has been removed. All new edits must have appropriate sources or they will be removed too (see Jimbo Wales' zero information recommendation). That's the only way to keep this article accurate. —tilde 03:37, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

A three-revert dispute arose after that, and tildebee backed down on a major purge of unsourced material. The person who reverted the purge said that unsourced info should be tagged. Tildebee pointed out that many Fact tags were in place for months. His purge left all sourced material in place, but removed all country sections that had no sources. I've been working on adding sourced material, and have found some of the existing unsourced information is completely wrong. I tend to side with tildee's purge. If someone wants to use the existing material to work on finding sources, they can load a pre-purged version from the history tab. -Agyle 05:56, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tips in spain

I delete this "In fact, the Mexican Spanish term propina actually connotes bribery, not respect, as in European Spanish." I have 3 reasons:

1.- If in this point we are talking about spain, then we are talking about spain, not about Mexico. 2.- I'm spanish and i can affirm that the word "propina" doesn't mean bribery, it's the first time in my whole life that i heard something like that. The word "propina" in European spanish means "tip", not bribery. Maybe in Mexico means bribery, i don't know, but not in spain. 3.- The reference cites Portuguese not spanish. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.125.27.123 (talk) 15:52, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Circumstances of Tipping

In the section "Circumstances of Tipping," the following appears in the third paragraph: "For example, a service charge for all patrons that is automatically added to the tab with no tipping the rule in Brazil." I'm not exactly sure what it is trying to say, but there is some kind of grammatical error. -Nik-renshaw (talk) 20:57, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposal that we abandon the per-country tipping customs

I think it is impossible to create a reliable encyclopedia article with the tipping customs of each country. There are many unreferenced claims and even those that do contain references may not be using reliable sources. A site like Wikitravel is more appropriate for that information. I propose we limit the article to discussing tipping in more general terms. Barrylb (talk) 16:14, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

If we don't abandon the per-country, I feel that we should at least severely restrict it to that handful of countries for which there are semi-reliable sources. It is clearly impractical to have a least of some 50-odd countries, when the bulk of it is clearly hearsay and is unsourced. Has anyone been watching this page long enough to have any idea where all of it even came from? I say we chop it down. And perhaps Barrylb is right, in that the individual tipping customs of nations are not something that really belong in an encyclopedia. Nik-renshaw (talk) 02:38, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
Actually, I do feel like a generalized discussion of tipping by location is appropriate. I feel like the best thing would be boiling it down by religion, region, or some other broader division than country, and then tracing its differences among these regions/cultures from a historical perspective. Nik-renshaw (talk) 18:02, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
I've implemented a bold solution. I created an article fork called Tipping by region. That list was just too long and was overwhelming this article. If someone cares enough, they can clean up the new article. If not, we can nominate it for deletion. If this was a bad idea, feel free to revert.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 20:15, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
I would like a generalized discussion too but there is the problem of lack of good references and original research. If we can find any good quality references I would include a section in the main Tip article. I appreciate the bold solution about creating an article fork but I think I will nominate it for deletion. Barrylb (talk) 21:34, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This article does not represent a worldwide view of tipping.

This tipping article represents a US opinion on tipping. It is almost customary to tip everyone whom serves you in the US. I live in Australia and I have visited many countries including the US, the US takes tipping to the extreme. Most if not all countries do not tip anyone at all. I therefore believe this article is biased to the US perspective of the tipping custom. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.171.76.166 (talk) 05:26, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

That is why the section "Regional differences in tipping custom" was added with a link to Tipping by region. Wikipedia isn't here to catalog every variation of everything one might find, but to discuss topics of encyclopedic interest with verifiable information. So, tipping was discussed as an institution as a whole (mentioning that United States requires more tipping than other countries). Nik-renshaw (talk) 17:08, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] gratuity versus advice

While this article mostly focuses in tips like gratuity, part talks about tips that are a form of advice, such as a stock tip Rds865 (talk) 16:14, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] People who are tipped besides waiters

Why not list people who are tipped besides waiters. Rds865 (talk) 16:14, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Tipping by continent needed?

This section just seems like a huge boring list, it is probably duplicated in the external links. Can it be eliminated? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sajendra (talk • contribs) 04:36, 2 June 2008 (UTC)