User talk:Tinucherian/Archive 2007

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Copyright status of Pakalomattom Ayrookuzhiyil

Please do not post copyrighted material to Wikipedia without permission from the copyright holder, as you did to Pakalomattom Ayrookuzhiyil. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites (http://www.ayrookuzhiyil.org/ in this case) or printed material; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing.
If you believe that the article is not a copyright violation, or if you have permission from the copyright holder to release the content freely under the GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL) then you should do one of the following:

• If you have permission from the author leave a message explaining the details on the article Talk page and send an email with the message to "permissions-en (at) wikimedia (dot) org". See Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission for instructions.
• If a note on the original website states that re-use is permitted under the GFDL or released into the public domain leave a note at Talk:Pakalomattom Ayrookuzhiyil with a link to where we can find that note;
• If you own the copyright to the material: send an e-mail from an address associated with the original publication to permissions-en(at)wikimedia(dot)org or a postal message to the Wikimedia Foundation permitting re-use under the GFDL, and note that you have done so on the article Talk page. Alternatively, you may create a note on your web page releasing the work under the GFDL and then leave a note at Talk:Pakalomattom Ayrookuzhiyil with a link to the details.

Otherwise, you are encouraged to rewrite this article in your own words to avoid any copyright infringement. After you do so, you should place a {{hangon}} tag on the article page and leave a note at Talk:Pakalomattom Ayrookuzhiyil saying you have done so. An administrator will review the new content before taking action.

It is also important that all Wikipedia articles have an encyclopedic tone and follow Wikipedia article layout. For more information on Wikipedia's policies, see Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If you want to edit constructively, take a look at the welcome page. Thank you. Chaser - T 07:00, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

We don't allowed copyrighted text on the site like that. End of story.--Chaser - T 07:08, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

I see now where you've indicated on the website that you license it to be used on Wikipedia but still say its under copyright at your site. I think you can legally do that, but the fact that it's under copyright at your site doesn't mean it can't be legally copied from Wikipedia and redistributed under the GFDL, our site license here. So by publishing it here you sacrifice the copyright at the other site.--Chaser - T 05:24, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi Chaser, I do understand that. This copyright declaration on my site technically have no legal bondings. it is just a warning to prevent others copying it. ;)

Anyways I am ok with it being on wikipedia.

Thanks for retaining the article in the wikipedia and your interest and help on it.

Regards tinucherian

Unspecified source for Image:Cherian_philip.JPG

Thanks for uploading Image:Cherian_philip.JPG. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, then you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, then their copyright should also be acknowledged.

As well as adding the source, please add a proper copyright licensing tag if the file doesn't have one already. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the {{GFDL-self}} tag can be used to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media meets the criteria at Wikipedia:Fair use, use a tag such as {{non-free fair use in|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair use. See Wikipedia:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the image is copyrighted under a non-free license (per Wikipedia:Fair use) then the image will be deleted 48 hours after 09:34, 4 July 2007 (UTC). If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. ShakespeareFan00 09:34, 4 July 2007 (UTC) Reply: The image Image:Cherian_philip.JPG is taken from http://www.ayrookuzhiyil.org/kcphilip.html and allowed to be used by User:tinucherian at Wikipedia Please see http://www.ayrookuzhiyil.org/copyright.html

Tinucherian 10:51, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Cherian_philip.JPG

Thank you for uploading Image:Cherian_philip.JPG. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the image. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. ShakespeareFan00 11:34, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Possibly unfree Image:Cherian_philip.JPG

Reply :

Please see http://www.ayrookuzhiyil.org/copyright.html

It explictly says "

The site and webmaster allows the use of the contents /images given in ayrookuzhiyil.org to User:tinucherian to publish the contents of this site at the wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakalomattom_Ayrookuzhiyil http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherian_Philip http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Cherian_philip.JPG http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suriyani_Christians_of_Kerala "

I am the webmaster of the same website ( family website )and this famous personality speciified is a part of this family.

Hope this clarifies

Thanks

Tinucherian 12:05, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi there! ShakespeareFan00 (talk · contribs) told me you were having a little trouble with this image, and I'm here to help you out.

Firstly, we need to know who took this image, as he or she will most likely own the copyright. Did you take this image?

Once we know that, we need the owner of the image to release the image under the GFDL. Be aware that releasing the image under the GFDL means that anyone can copy or modify the image in any way they see fit. We require this because it is a fundamental part of our goal on Wikipedia to make our encyclopedia something anyone can repackage and republish, and this includes the image. If this image isn't released under the GFDL, we unfortunately cannot use it in the Cherian Philip article.

Once we know who the image belongs to and whether it can be released under the GFDL, I'd be happy to sort everything out for you.

I hope this helps! If you have the answers to my questions, or questions of your own, just add them right after this and I'll come and do whatever I can to help. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 12:21, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi A_Man_In_Black ,

Now I am at my witz end !! :( . The photo was taken in our family reunion very long back . As a member of the same family and the family website owner, I still reempazhize that I own the photo of Cherian_philip !!

Thanks

Tinucherian 12:29, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Don't worry; I'm gonna make this as painless as possible for you. :)

Do you own the only copy of this image? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 12:39, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Reply :

Yes !! Thanks for the patience and understanding !! Tinucherian 13:35, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good! Are you willing to release this image under the GFDL? Remember, this means that anyone can copy or modify the image in any way they see fit, as long as they credit you as the original owner of the image. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 13:43, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Reply

ok fine.

Tinucherian 13:46, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

You're all set. If you upload another image from your personal collection of family images, as long as you're the owner of the only copy of the image or the photographer of the image, just make sure you say so and add {{GFDL}} to the image description page. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 14:01, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi A_Man_In_Black,

Thanks a lot for the help!! It is amazing to see the understanding , patience and dedication of Wikipedia moderators. Happy to be part of this !! Looking forward to more co-operation. Regards Tinucherian 14:10, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Re: Removal of data from Syrian_Malabar_Nasrani

Hello Tinucherian, The main reason I am concerned about the removal of that passage is because it is referenced to a source. I'd appreciate it if you could explain what specifically the problem with the sourcing or neutrality is. Cheers, Tewfik^Talk 06:29, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Reply : The neutrality of the contributor of the part of that passage is suspect . Besides It is not said so on the said reference. I am also a researchor on christain history of kerala, india.

Regards Tinucherian 06:52, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Hello again,

I am not sure that I understand. Did you review the source and find it inconsistent with the claim? Tewfik^Talk 07:04, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Reply :

Yes the source was verified and it didnt contain any data as said. Can you help me by giving the orginal diff and find the contributor to this part of the page ? Thanks in advance.

Tinucherian 07:06, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Categorization of Cherian_Philip

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cherian_Philip&diff=142830794&oldid=142816403

Done. Tinucherian 05:30, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you

Hi Tinu. Yes, I like your articles on our common pakalomattam/pakalomattom family. I wish you all the best in your endeavours! Samuel Pakalomattam 13:45, 6 July 02007 (UTC)

We are not strangers ..

Hi Tinu. We are not strangers to each other. But to answer your question, our pakalomattam sub-family goes by the name of Orethu, in a place called Kurianoor. Do you know anyone of this family? You have a great deal of your family history on the web. I and no one in our family seems to want to put ours on the web. The web site http://www.orethu.com/ was registered a long time ago by a Varghese Varghese of our family in Dubhai, but he hasn't done anything with it.

Samuel Pakalomattam 14:12, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Puthancavu Tharakan families

I wonder do you know of the twelve Tharakan families of Puthancavu? I have read of it in the autobiography of Pastor K. E. Abraham. He is of the Avira (Abraham) Tharakan family. Is your family also one of these twelve tharakan families. By the way, I do know some of your family decendants, they are the decendants of one of the ladies of your family married into my mother's late mother's family of Kuzhikala, Chiramannil family. (You can find it again in your data faster then I can.)

On your question of the Pakalomattam family yahoo group, yes that was created by me. I remember you joining. I hope you will participate again in there also.

Samuel Pakalomattam 14:51, 7 July 02007 (UTC)

Ok. I looked through the web pages of your family history (http://www.ayrookuzhiyil.org/a1b6c1.html ) and found this:

D1E2F6 Thankamma (Kuzhikala Chiramannil ). She is the wife of my late great-grandfather's second cousin. His one son is in NY, one daughter here in Houston, and one son is in London, his name is Cherian Tharakan. (Of course, I've never asked them if this is the same person or not. But I think so, her obit is here: http://us.share.geocities.com/pakalomattamfamily/obits_egsgn.pdf, look for the date: 11/02/01999)

On Pastor K. E. Abraham (IPC), I don't know where you could get a copy of his autobiography in Banglore. I am not sure if the Abraham Tharakan of the six ancestral branches of your ancestry is the same Avira Tharakan of his ancestry. The copy I have is in Malayalam, i'd be glad to send you a photocpy of the relavant page(s) if you want.

So why don't you have the history of sons 2 to 6?

Samuel Pakalomattam 20:46, 7 July 02007 (UTC)

tincherian (at) gmail (dot) com is also you?

I know you are tinucherian (at) gmail (dot) com.

Pakalomattam 14:43, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Help request

{{helpme}}

Please REVERT the redirect of Suriyani_Christians_of_Kerala to Saint_Thomas_Christians

The former is about suryani christians of kerala , which is only indirectly related to Saint_Thomas_Christians . I hope you are not aware of the history of this in kerala.

This is about the culture of syrian christians of kerala. They are popularly known as Syrian Christians in view of the Syriac (classical form of Aramaic) liturgy used in church services since the early days of Christianity in India and not for any syrian migration. I have just started the article and allow me to continue it ...

Tinucherian 06:35, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

See my comment on Talk:Suriyani Christians of Kerala. :) -- Stwalkerster talk 09:40, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Suriyani Christians of Kerala

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. We appreciate your contributions to the Suriyani Christians of Kerala article, but for legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted.

You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. This part is crucial: say it in your own words.

If the external website belongs to you, and you want to allow Wikipedia to use the text — which means allowing other people to modify it — then you must include on the external site the statement "I, (name), am the author of this article, (article name), and I release its content under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 and later."

You might want to look at Wikipedia's policies and guidelines for more details, or ask a question here. You can also leave a message on my talk page. -- Whpq 14:01, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Unsolicted changes

User Tinucherian and another person made chnages in the content with out discussion.Please do keep in mind that this article contains contributions from many people. This is not a new article to come and make changes in one day.Before anyone makes any changes do have the courtsey to discuss and wait for atleast 30 days and if the response is favarable to your suggestions and then only proceed for changes.I request the editors not to encourage changes with out discussion.Editors should encourage new peoples contribution but that should not be for tampering the articles.

Unsolicted changes happened during the last few months

1- Removeal of Passover from traditions

Pass over is another surviving Jewish tradition still followed by the Nasranis is the tradition of Pesaha-appam or unleavened Passover bread”). On passover night, the Nasrani people have Pesaha-appam along with Pesaha-pal or “Passover coconut milk”. This tradition of Pesaha-appam is observed by the entire Nasrani people until this day. === Most of the Nasranis follow this tradition, the only exception is Knanya Jacobite and Protestants.If you look at the Nasrani population they dont even exceed 2 or 3 percent.

Please check this link -http://nasrani.net/2007/02/13/preserved-original-rituals-of-the-early-jewish-christians-in-syrian-christians-of-kerala/ [ Many of the traditions has been removed with out any discussion.

2-Shaivite revival

If you look at the reverse population projection the Kerala populationin the begining of century is around 200000. The poulation maninly consiting of Nasranis and Budhists.Vedic revival and Shivaite revival happend during the end of first century and many Nasranis as well a Budhists adorned to the faiths.The referance are already given in the article.Please read the books mentioned on referance and dont make chnages with out reading.

This article needs revision and rather than making irrevalant chnages discuss on the chnages required and some one who has time discuss it and then make chnages.

maharishisy 02:16, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

{{help me}}

Who has given you right maharishisy, to interpret the christian church in india ? This guy has some hidden ajenda!!!

Wht this guy is doing is the vandalism !!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Saint_Thomas_Christians&curid=251667&diff=144107250&oldid=143955229

You basically have no knowledge of the christian history of india !!!

Being a reseacher in christian history .... I dont agree with this edit !!!

St. Thomas Evangelical Church broke away from Malankara Mar Thoma Syrian Church and St. Thomas Evangelical Fellowship of India (broke away from St. Thomas Evangelical Church of India)

Study the history man !!!

Tinucherian 16:53, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Tinucherian, I'd suggest read WP:DR for suggestions in resolving your dispute. Try talking to Maharishisy on his/her talk page. If you still have trouble coming to an agreement, you may want to look into requesting for comments or requesting a third opinion on Saint Thomas Christians. It may help your arugment if you properly cite your information. Hoof Hearted 20:01, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Requesting users co-operation as per Wiki guidelines

Till a conscious is reached as per the WP:DR. I am removing the controversial inclusion and lets wait for other comments with logical quotes and points from credible sources. I request user Tinucherian co operation in solving as per Wiki guideline. Please see my comments on the discussion page in article. I have referenced a World bank demographer ( The only book available talking on Syrian Chrsitians Demography ) and a famous Church historian, the first ecumenical inititive of St Thomas Christians Encyclopedia.

Maharshisy 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Pakalomattom Ayrookuzhiyil logo.gif

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:Pakalomattom Ayrookuzhiyil logo.gif. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is not a suitable explanation or rationale as to why each specific use in Wikipedia constitutes fair use. Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. STBotI 05:02, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

-Added the Rationale. Tinucherian 05:18, 15 November 2007 (UTC)