Talk:Timothy Winter
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[edit] Be joined with "Abdal-Hakim Murad"
Amongst Muslims AFAIK this is well known as anyone with a little research can discern ie http://masud.co.uk/ Masoud Khan's web page where there are titles such as by 'Abdal Hakim Murad' uder site content where the link says
"Abdal Hakim Murad graduated from Cambridge University with a double-first in Arabic in 1983. He then lived in Cairo for three years, studying Islam under traditional teachers at Al-Azhar, one of the oldest universities in the world. He went on to reside for three years in Jeddah, where he administered a commercial translation office and maintained close contact with Habib Ahmad Mashhur al-Haddad and other ulama from Hadramaut, Yemen.
In 1989, Shaikh Abdal Hakim returned to England and spent two years at the University of London learning Turkish and Farsi. Since 1992 he has been a doctoral student at Oxford University, specializing in the religious life of the early Ottoman Empire. He is currently Secretary of the Muslim Academic Trust (London) and Director of the Sunna Project at the Centre of Middle Eastern Studies at Cambridge University, which issues the first-ever scholarly Arabic editions of the major Hadith collections.
Shaikh Abdal Hakim is the translator of a number of works, including two volumes from Imam al-Ghazali's Ihya Ulum al-Din. He gives durus and halaqas from time to time and taught the works of Imam al-Ghazali at the Winter 1995 Deen Intensive Program in New Haven, CT. He appears frequently on BBC Radio and writes occasionally for a number of publications, including The Independent; Q-News International, Britain's premier Muslim Magazine; and Seasons, the semiacademic journal of Zaytuna Institute."
this is the same information on the Tim Winter page!.
In knowing him personally & he refers to himself as "Abdal-Hakim Murad" in his correspondence with me.
I don't understand the confusion or see why any further discussion has to be done, it's a moot point.
Salams!
Enthogenesis 18:42, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Improper referencing
The majority (more than half) of this article appears to be OR...in some cases, the citation is just a link to the Masud.co.uk site, which doesn't provide any information up front for the reader. A lot of this appears to be a quote farm as well; a long list of his positions on various issues isn't wholly relevant or helpful to learning about the guy. I think this article needs attention from an expert on his life, because the biographical information is also lacking; there's not much about his early life and parts about his education could probably be expanded as well. MezzoMezzo 14:53, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Deleted Sections
MezzoMezzo,
Regarding the sections that were removed, I will try to explain why they should be reinserted.
The sections “On Extremism” and “British Islam” were deleted on the ground that they were quote farms. It is true that these sections contain long quotations from Mr. Winter’s articles. However, the quotations provide information that is immanently relevant to their respective sections. I suggest, instead of removing the sections, to add the following tag:
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This article or section contains too many quotations for an encyclopedic entry. Please improve the article or discuss proposed changes on the talk page. You can edit the article to add more encyclopedic text or link the article to a page of quotations, possibly one of the same name, on Wikiquote. See Wikipedia's guide to writing better articles for further suggestions. (April 2008) |
In the case of “British Islam,” it was also said that its overall relevance to Mr. Winter’s life was not explained. This section, as with the other sections that were removed, deal with Mr. Winter’s ideas rather than his personal life. Nevertheless, a subject’s ideas certainly have a place in his biography. See, for instance, the sections, “Summary of Absurdism” and “Camus’ Ideas on the Absurd” in Wikipedia’s biography of Albert Camus.
“Sufism,” “Theology of Metaphysics,” and “Al-Ghazali” were deleted because they were unreferenced. The quotes in the “Sufism” section can be found in http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/ahm/contentions11.htm. As for the rest, rather than deleting the sections, the following tag can be used:
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This article or section is missing citations or needs footnotes. Using inline citations helps guard against copyright violations and factual inaccuracies. (November 2007) |
--Rsidique 07:24, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
- Tags are meant, however, to encourage other users to ultimately address the problems they bring to light. Considering that this article has seen little activity over recent months, it didn't look like anyone would be addressing them anytime soon. Per WP:CITE, the issue of whether to keep the tags or to remove the material is really a judgment call, and in this case for the unsourced above it didn't look like it would become sourced. Luckily, you've come along with the actual source for the formerly unreferenced sections so we should be able to fix those now.
- As for the sections on extremism and British Islam, why exactly are they immanently relevant to those sections? Even if we do put the quotefarm tag, what does that tag mean? It means that ultimately, we need to edit the sections so they are no longer quotefarms, which is what I did. Considering he's an Oxford professor, the sheer volume of papers he's authored makes proving the significance of one or two ideas over the others he has difficult.
- Regardless, I am willing to defer on most of this as you have shown a legitimate interest in improving this article, which I didn't see before, and which cause me to edit the way I did. My main request is that we focus a little more on the bio section than making this a catalog for his opinions - for example, he's a convert to Islam. Has he ever discussed what brought him to that? Do we know anything about his upbringing before college? What about his current life outside of teaching? Those are just things i'd personally like to see. Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons can be a big help as far as where to go from here with this article. Please let me know what you think and if you need any help with the improvements for this article. MezzoMezzo 19:36, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
