Talk:Timeline of the 2006 Lebanon War

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Contents 1 Page structure 2 Merge 3 Change order of July 14 table 4 Remove 17 July Bombing in Gaza City? 5 Detailed timeline 6 World War III 7 "Israel-Lebanon conflict"? 8 Rocket Counts 9 Citation Templates 10 Fixing citations 11 Sources in lanugages other than English 12 July 30 13 Order of Events: July 12 14 Links and references not showing ? 15 "Killed" vs. "reported killed" 16 Minor Technical Inaccuracy 17 Remove the neutrality tag ? 18 Date format 19 May 20 Merger from Military operations "Operations by date" section 21 Merger cleanup 22 El C edit multiple pages

[edit] Page structure

I've changed the list of events to a tabular structure. I beleive it is easier to read this way. Any suggestions would be welcome. sikander 16:48, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi, could we make the refs column dissapear so that we can cite next to the text? Nice work on the tables.--Infolabza 16:55, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, yes that would be more accurate. Ok, I've removed the sources column. sikander 17:03, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Ah, thanks. Also, would it be possible to make the individual days editable so that we don't have to step on each others toes (merge) editing the page?--Infolabza 17:15, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

That is also a good idea. I'll see what I can do. sikander 17:47, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Created different sections per date. However, had to remove the TOC. Maybe someone with more wiki editing knowledge can make the page have both a TOC and sections per date. sikander 18:08, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge

Someone proposed a merge with 2006_Arab-Israeli_conflict, but gave no explanation here - care to elucidate? I think it helps to have the timeline separate (similar to the International_reaction_to_the_2006_Israel-Lebanon_crisis), because otherwise the main page (2006_Israel-Lebanon_crisis) gets way too busy. UltraNurd 23:36, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

I noticed that the title of this timeline is the same as the Israel-Lebanon crisis, but the timeline includes events from Operation Summer Rain, which some people are disputing in the AfD for "conflict." If you intend to go with the idea of a larger conflict instead of two smaller ones, then this needs to cross pollinate with the other article and "vote to keep" on the AfD. If "crisis" is deleted, this will need to assume the role of the summary of combined events. Otherwise, this too could end up as AfD for making the same link being disputed now. Cwolfsheep 23:55, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

I suppose we should remove the section "Events leading up to operations in Lebanon June - Jul 2006" to bind better with our parent article '2006 Israel-Lebanon crisis'--198.54.202.82 01:21, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Having a separate timeline was specifically requested to keep the main article size down. Make up your mind folks! Emax0 06:43, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I'd say to keep the timeline separate. It is already large enough to cause too much bloat in the parent article. On another note, the formatting of this list is too spread out. The tables should probably be dropped or consolidated to get rid of an excessive amount of white space. --StuffOfInterest 11:23, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

As per all of the comments above, I'm removing the merge notices. The 2006 Israel-Lebanon crisis article is on the home page, and already has an NPOV tag and current event tag. There's no need to keep the merge notice for an extended period of time. If anyone disagrees, note it on this talk page. ♠ SG →Talk 11:44, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I recomend that this artical be merged with Military operations of the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict, which is out of date and almost identicall in principle. --Jedi18 19:49, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Change order of July 14 table

With the IDF part at the beginning of all tables, the reader may think that Israel initiated all of the events. I've moved the IDF actions to the end of the table on July 14 so that they wouldn't be first on all tables, which - although may make the Timeline somewhat easier to follow - would also make it appear as if Israel is responsible for everything. By the way, I am Israeli, but I believe my edit has an NPOV. Tamuz 19:34, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Remove 17 July Bombing in Gaza City?

Does the bombing of the Palestinian foreign ministry building in Gaza City belong in an article about the Israel-Lebenon conflict? How does a Palestinian building in Gaza relate to the Lebanon - Israel conflict? This seems like it should be moved to another page that deals more with the entire Israel - (Arab/Palestinian/whomever) conflict instead of this page which is focused on the Israel - Lebanon aspect. I did not remove the reference because I'm not a subject matter expert. Any feedback on this would be great (and I may be off base with this thought, please just let me know). rex 04:17, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Removed it imi2 07:23, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Detailed timeline

May I add detailed information of attacks from in these pages (in arabic): July 17, 18 and 19, after I translate them? CG 06:54, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Try to find english-speaking links instead, like AlJazeera or others ? -- imi2 06:54, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] World War III

Seems to me someone is trying to be funny, editing the article to have "July 29 - World War III begins..." :-(

Americium 10:26, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Israel-Lebanon conflict"?

I am disputing this article for its (lack of) accuracy. IMO, this article should be renamed to "Israel-Hezbollah conflict". Hezbollah is not Lebanon and this article only discusses Hezbollah's actions against Israel. Furthermore, what violence has the government of Lebanon sanctioned against Israel? Lebanon has explicitly condemned the actions of Hezbollah. FightCancer 05:45, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Wanting a name change doesn't warrant an accuracy tag. If you have any concerns about the accuracy of the contents, then the tag is justified, but otherwise, not. As for the name of the article, I suggest you take it up on the talk page for the parent, 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict. There's already been much discussion. --Iorek85 06:55, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I would recommend that the name of this article follows the name of the main article. --imi2 05:24, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rocket Counts

Does anyone have information on number of Hezbollah rockets fired into Israel by day (for every day of the conflict?) E.g., around 100 most days, I think there was 82 today (so far). It might be interesting to look at the trend, esp. on how/if it changes as this unfortunate situation continues. TJ0513 23:52, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

A bit outdated, but better than nothing: http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-+Obstacle+to+Peace/Terrorism+from+Lebanon-+Hizbullah/Hizbullah+attack+in+northern+Israel+and+Israels+response+12-Jul-2006.htm --88.153.138.12 04:59, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citation Templates

Here are links to citation templates, for your convenience:

• Wikipedia:Citation templates
• Template:Cite news

-Zeno Izen 22:43, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fixing citations

I'm trying to fix as many of these citations as possible. I'm only fixing the formatting, though. Some of the citations may still be not-reliable, incorrect or otherwise in need of further reparation. I may go back and re-fix some of them, but not today. Anyone feel like taking a crack at it, I know I'd appreciate it, for one. -Zeno Izen 20:59, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

For instance, references #22, #23 and #24 all refer to a "timeline" at aljazeera.com, which is not a static news article, and probably not an appropriate reference for specific facts. -Zeno Izen 21:05, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

• Fixed a few of the citations, just went into the articles listed in AlJazeera's Timeline, and cited the articles from there, most of the headlines had cites in there. -User:Sgiard 05:49, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Nice work! Now I'm going to try to fix some more -Zeno Izen 09:34, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sources in lanugages other than English

Here's the guideline page for sources in Russian, etc.: Wikipedia:Reliable sources (other than English) -Zeno Izen 21:57, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] July 30

why have you deleted the fact that Hezbolla fired missles from the cana area into israel?

According to most news sources the Qana area strike was a mistake, but it wasn't deleted by me. http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/30/mideast.main/index.html -Matt30

If U have a NPOV-link about any rockets being fired from Qana that day, I cant see why it shouldnt be placed there (or on any correct date ofcourse). The topic about rockets fired from Qana is also covered in the main article about the Qana airstrike itself, as I recall -imi2

[edit] Order of Events: July 12

The current page lists Hezbollah rocket attacks as the conflict trigger (being the first of listed events under the Hezbollah box section) and cites BBC as a source. However, http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/14/israel.lebanon.timeline/, http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/07/12/wednesday/index.html, http://www.infoplease.com/spot/lebanontime1.html, http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/middleeast/timeline_recent.html, http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-07-21-lebanon-israel_x.htm?csp=1, and http://myopr.com/articles/2006/07/22/news/local_state/news2.txt all document Hezbollah rocket fire as a response to the navel blockade and subsequent bombing. I cannot, at all, find any source, other than the Israeli new source Harretz cited in the Wikipedia entry, that states the rocket attacks occurred simultaneously with the cross-border raid. More definitive data is need on the order of events for Wednesday, July 12. As I see it, the bullet points inside the Hezbollah box for July 12 should be reversed to reflect a more mainstream order of events. Unless otherwise cited, the entry as it stands now is unreliable at best.

There is also a debate as to whether this was a cross-border raid at all. According to the Harretz source, cameras in the section of the border two Israeli soldiers were captured from were not yet installed. In addition, an editorial used as a source in the primary wiki on the conflict states that Hezbollah claims the Israeli patrol was on the Lebanese side of the border (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HG15Ak02.html). While I do not suggest, at this time, the wording should be changed, we should watch the sources we use in the timeline to reflect only information that has been confirmed by more than one source. -Matt30 23:27, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

+++++++++++ IMPORTANT +++++++++++++

I second this. The first Hezbollah rocket was not fired for at least 36 hours after the operation to kidnap the Israeli soldiers. During this 36 hours, Beirut airport and several key roads and bridges were hit and most importantly 40 or so civilians were killed. This sequence of events has been blurred by both American and Israeli media to help justify Israel atrocities but is a compelte lie. Another important point to note is that Nassrallah on several occasions pleaded with Israel to stop it's destrcution and negotiate a hostage release or else face retaliation however the slaughter of civlians and destruciton of civilian infrustructer continued.

Well written article: http://www.jkcook.net/Articles2/0265.htm#Top

Well, according to BBC News, Hezzbollah fired rockets on July 12, not 36 hrs after the attack, as You claim ?---imi2 17:14, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Links and references not showing ?

Is it just me, or are References and External links not showing anymore, even though they are there, when U edit something ? -imi2

This may occur if you forget to forget to close the ref tag as you did here.

Thanks for fixing it -imi2

[edit] "Killed" vs. "reported killed"

Why are deaths of Israelis described as "reported killed", while deaths of Lebanese are described as "killed"? Are the death reports of Israelis more questionable than the ones of Lebanese? (I would suggest the opposite, e.g., lebanese reports not mentioning Hizballa militants killed seperatly, but rather counting them as civilians - one of the benefits of being a guerilla organization, but let's leave this for now). This appears today (Aug 6), but might also appear on previous days. Eranb 20:55, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Minor Technical Inaccuracy

"Israeli helicopters fired five shells at an administration building..."

"Shells" are generally used to refer to artillery. Helicopters cannot carry artillery. The helicopter fired missiles, or it fired rockets, or at most it fired "cannon shells", not just "shells" (which is highly unlikely given that only five were fired). This needs changing either to the correct weapon or to just say "fired at". BobThePirate 08:50, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

• Which day, and If it was August 10th i don't see it. I haven't even heard of this so do we have evidence That this is true?

                                 Zonerocks 17:37, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

• • August 9th : "Israeli helicopters fired five shells at an administration building..." Also, I took the liberty of removing the duplicate header and indented you comment for clarity. Hope that's okay. BobThePirate 23:10, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

But, if U check the link, I can find anything there telling about helikopter shooting at a building? Somebody else check it too ? -- imi2 23:10, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Remove the neutrality tag ?

Havent seen any real debate about this issue here. So can we remove it ? I think so -- imi2 12:19, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

It isn't neutral. Begin reading again: The conflict started, Hezbollah fires rockets, Israelis die. Why aren't the hundreds of lebanese civilians dead reported. Does this mean days after the israel bombing started, there were no lebanese victims? I think this article isn't neutral.

Okey, so do You have an suggetion to how it can sound more neutral ? I think it's rather neutral, it lacks some information, but feel free to add any reference and text regarding the many casualties those first days of the conflict, nothing's stopping You, but have the references with in the text --imi2 05:42, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Date format

Is there any good reason for this to use American Dating format rather than International Dating? Neither Israel nor Lebanon use American Dating and its use here is inappropriate. --Jumbo 23:53, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

You mean August 1 instead of 1 August ? Want to change it ? I wont object to that, not to it staying the way it is either. The date format is of lesser importance than the information connected to thses dates in my view --imi2 23:53, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Remember that so long as you are logged in and the dates are linked - it doesn't matter which way they are written because they are displayed according to your preference. Rmhermen 05:49, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that's great for editors, most of whom have accounts. But readers - you know, people actually using the Wikipedia for the purpose we intend it - won't, and therefore see the underlying date format. --Jumbo 10:37, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

As I said earlier, I have no objection to changing that, if someone wants to do the work. Either form is fine by me --imi2 16:16, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] May

What should we do about this section:

In May 2006 Israel government representatives visited Washington to discuss their upcoming plans for an attack on Hezbollah in Lebanon. They wanted to get US pre-approval and know how large offensive USA would allow.^{[1][2][3][4][5][6][7]}

It gives some valueable background, but it's not an actual part of the conflict. // Liftarn

Any reasonable country has a plan of action in case of war with a possible enemy, it doesn't mean anything. The United States probably has a plan in case they go to War with Russia, it doesn't mean that they are planing to or that they want to launch a war against Moscow, it just means they don't want to be caught off guard if relations go sour really fast. Israel had an enemy pointing thousands of missiles at its northern border that was launching raids every few months across an international border into its territory, it would have been both irresponsible and simply stupid if they didn't have an action plan for a possible wider conflict.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 09:20, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Possiby, but unless you have a source it's still just OR. // Liftarn

[edit] Merger from Military operations "Operations by date" section

I am suggesting we merge the "Operations by date" with the Timeline of the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict where it should be. There is no logical reason to divide the timelines into two separate pages, as timelines are precisely meant to be quick go to resources rather than prose explanations. We could do this either by moving the entire section here, or by putting the military operations information into the appropiate dates here. --Cerejota 10:08, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree, one way or the other. Have U suggested this at "the military operations"-site too ? --imi2 15:44, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Since there hasn't been any comments against, am snowballing this merger and already did it.--Cerejota 16:44, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merger cleanup

I think the merged section should either be integrated into the existing timeline, or made to fit the style format of the timeline. Anyone?--Cerejota 16:47, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] El C edit multiple pages

I think EL C's edits are great and he deserves a minor barnstar for it.--Cerejota 21:35, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

/bows El_C 22:25, 25 August 2006 (UTC)