Talk:Tikar

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[edit] Who are the Tikar?

There seems to be a confusion between the proper Tikar from the Center province and the different ethnic groups of the Bamenda area often called "Tikar" as their dynasties are said to be of Tikar origin. Ethonologue as well as the other link are talking about the first ones. On the other hand, the second ones are in fact "a group of related ethnic groups" who "live primarily in the northwestern part of the country, near the Nigerian border", but they are much more than 25'000. Many other wikipedia articles (Demographics of Cameroon, Bafut, etc.) who talk about the Tikar are referring to the peoples of the North West rather than proper Tikar. Togui 09:42, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Wow, that's something to think about. Then again, as Jan Vansina points out, the linguistic/ethnic identities are fluid in Africa. Whatever you think should be added, go ahead and do so if you are knowledgeable on the subject. I became interest in the Tikar after seeing the recent Henry Louis Gates program. I don't know whether the Tikar Quincy Jones may apparently be related to are the "real" Tikar or the Tikar imprinted by the "real" Tikar. Badagnani 09:47, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Whatever we do, please, please cite sources. All of mine describe the Tikar as a number of related fondoms in the NW Province. "Today, the Tikars live mostly in the Mbam region and the northern half of the Bamenda grassfields area, especially in Menchum, Mezam, Donga, and Mantung Divisions." (Neba 57) "Tikar is the general classification referring to the major ethnic groupings of the Bamenda highland." (DeLancey and DeLancey 258) "The term Tikar is therefore collective and applies to the related fondoms spread across from the Bamenda highlands to the Mbam and Ndjim rivers." (Fanso 34) I could find much more, but unfortunately I don't have time at the moment to write a full and proper Tikar article. — BrianSmithson 12:07, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
I'll hold off on adding a "sofixit" tag but just say that I started the article because it needed to exist, but I've reached the limit of my knowledge on the subject, so hope you with expertise will add to the article as you see fit. I do note that between Togui and BrianSmithson there are differences between who the "real" Tikar are. Badagnani 12:12, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Oh, I didn't mean to disparage your work; I've no beef with the article except that I'd like to see it longer! It is quite possible that there is a specific Tikar ethnic group that calls themselves Tikar and not something more specific, but I'm not sure. In this case, I would suggest referring to them as the Tikar proper. I've done this at, for example, Duala peoples. — BrianSmithson 12:38, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Yes, but Togui and Ethnologue says the Tikar proper live in Centre Province, while you and your sources say they're from Bamenda in the Northwest. So that's a confusion over which of the two the Tikar proper are, because Centre Province is two provinces over from Bamenda. Badagnani 12:42, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
The problem is that the intervening peoples are also, technically, Tikar. These peoples are the Bamileke and the Bamun. Before the colonial period, these groups, though related, all had very specific tribal identities. The colonizers wished to group them more conveniently for administrative purposes, so the Bamileke were lumped together, the Bamun were distinguished due to their Islam, and the Northwest fondoms were lumped together. I'm not sure what caused the Centre and Adamawa Tikars to be separated, but my guess would be that it was for some German of French administrative reason. It is definitely something to address when and if the article gets expanded. — BrianSmithson 12:46, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
The article I've just added presents another theory, that the Tikar of the Tikar plain (in central Cameroon?) are the original ones, linguistically and culturally, and that the ones in Bamenda aren't that linguistically close to the original Tikar though they claim descent, political or otherwise, from the Tikar, for whatever reason. They're closer to the neighboring Mbem? Badagnani 12:50, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Excellent link! I have only skimmed it, but it will be a wonderful source for whomever expands the article. My gut is to still call the grassfields self-styled Tikar Tikar (which my Cameroon sources largely do) and the original Tikar (whom the Ethnologue link is discussing) something like Tikar proper or original Tikar. There's also a lot of overlap with Semi-Bantu or Grassfields Bantu, which describes many of the same peoples. — BrianSmithson 12:59, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
I suggest Grassfields Tikar and Tikar ProperTogui 15:19, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Bamileke and Bamum (who are closely related to the people of Bamenda area, both culturally and linguistically) also claim descent from the Tikar, although the Tikar language is very different. An hypothesis I once read is that it was the Bamum current dynasty which came from the Tikar and conquer their current country adopting the local language (a bit like Germanic-speaking Franks once conquered and gave their name to what is now France, while adopting the local latin language).
I guess that the "Northwest Tikar" took this name as they saw their Tikar origin as their main common point.
I confirm that I have also often seen in many different sources the name "Tikar" for both groups Togui 14:49, 24 May 2006 (UTC)