User talk:Thunderboltz/Archive 3

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

FYI...

The 2nd paragraph at Thiruvananthapuram needs to be changed back to:

With a population of 889,191 (as of 2001) it is the second biggest city in Kerala after Kochi. The city, being the State Capital houses many Central and State Government offices, organizations and companies. Apart from being the political nerve center of Kerala, it is also a major academic hub and houses several premier educational institutions including the Kerala University. Thiruvananthapuram is also home to many science and technology institutions, the most prominent being the Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre(VSSC). The city also has the first Technopark of its kind in India. Situated near Kazhakutoom, this Technopark houses many of the leading software giants in the world.

—Khoikhoi 06:42, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Nandi. If this continues I'll request page protection. —Khoikhoi 06:51, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
LOL, I got those emails too! I love it how they say "this is not a Kochi promotion site", while the website that they're from is such a blatant Thiruvananthapuram promotion site. Aw jeez, looks like they reverted again. Should I contact an admin? —Khoikhoi 07:01, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
No, I'm not Indian at all. I just typed in "Malayalam thank you" on Google. —Khoikhoi 07:02, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
You're right semi-protection wouldn't work, but full-protection would. Anyways, I think we should say something at WP:AN/I. I think I'll do that right now. :) —Khoikhoi 07:16, 24 April 2006 (UTC)


I do not understand what the problem is. Under 2001 census, Trivandrum City Corporation Area has more population than Kochi City Corp Area. See the link that I have given in the TVM page.

If your only point of focus is to have some fun, please go ahead and have that. But let me and the others know, since you are vandalising the Trivandrum entry, and I would not want to waste my time. Please feel free to report it to anyone you like. - User:Rajeshdxb

Re: Largest city

Hi, if there is a distinction between the largest city and largest urban agglomeration in a state, both must be appropriately noted. Now, when we say largest city, we are talking about an area under the jurisdiction of one municipal corporation. Urban areas can have multiple municipal corporations. However, one must remember that not everyone who reads Wikipedia is able to make that distinction. It is important, therefore, to note both the largest city and largest UA, in case they are different.

Now, with regards to Kerala, I have updated the Infobox State IN template to accomodate both largest city and largest UA. I will add my notes to the talk page. Hope this helps. AreJay 19:05, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

I understand your frustration. As someone who is on his third year here in Wikipedia, I can tell you, you're going to have to do battle with POV warriors from both sides of the pond. Many of these disputes end up ugly, but you have to do what you have to do to protect the integrity of the article. However, if someone is threatening you and getting personal, that is beyond the bounds of civility and you shouldn't let yourself take that kind of nonsense from other people. Simply report the matter to an administrator who is not involved in the dispute, ask for the page to be protected/semi protected and for the hecklers to be blocked. We have a great pool of active Indian admins who will be more than willing to help. I think you're doing a great job, so keep up the great work! AreJay 02:55, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Major cities

Hi, you have created the category "Category:Major Cities in India". There is another category called "Category:Cities_and_towns_in_India", which has got entries for places like Delhi, Chennai and Bangalore, whereas your category has got places like Cuttack and Guwahati ! How would you define major ? Can we delete this category and move the entries to "Cities_and_towns_in_India" ? Jay 05:08, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Map in Kochi page

I suggest you put a map which shows Trivandrum clearly --Altruist 07:29, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Now all right

Hello, Now I am all right. I am pasting a message below explaining my absence. Best regards.

"My dear friends, I regret that I could not notify you about my absence. Actually, I fell sick suddenly on the morning of 3rd April 2006, and was confined to bed and was not allowed Internet access. Now, I am more or less in "shape". The problem was very serious infection. I missed wikipedia and wikipedians for three long weeks, and I feel really sad… for first few days, I even dreamt of wikipedia! I think that in next few days, my wiki-life shall become normal. I thank you for the concern and care, I know wikipedians are the most active virtual community, and Wikipedia is Better than the Best." --Bhadani 10:04, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

And, Happy Easter - though so late. --Bhadani 10:28, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Baburaj

Hi. Thanks for the hello on my talk page. I found Baburaj tagged for wikification. I don't have much knowledge about Malayali singers. Can you expand the article or atleast wikify it when you get time? - Aksi_great (talk) 17:39, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Aaaarrggghhhh!!!

God! Check out Altruist's comment here. Image:Angry.png I find myself amazed that at times like these I'm still able to keep my cool. How are you doing? —Khoikhoi 00:00, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Kochi vs. Trivandrum

You might be interested in this. Utterly ridiculous, if you ask me. AreJay 01:56, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

LOL, this is actually starting to become very, very funny. :p —Khoikhoi 06:21, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
Here's for all the crap you've had to take from the army of TVMers. Don't take their insults personally! ;) —Khoikhoi 06:27, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
Here's for all the crap you've had to take from the army of TVMers. Don't take their insults personally! ;) —Khoikhoi 06:27, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
And thank you for the thank you. —Khoikhoi 06:27, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for your message. Don't worry too much about it, Deepu. My offer to the Trivandrum lobby was to, at best, to change the map to indicate India's top 10 cities. I quite categorically said I don't have the time (nor do I wish to dedicate any more time than I have to for such inane a project) to sit around all day and create a gazillion India maps with Trivandrum in it. If they feel there are cartography hobbyists among the lot, then hey, they can take those maps and go to town...this sentiment was echoed by Nichalp as well. Don't worry too much about it, there's light at the end of the tunnel. :) AreJay 12:55, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Your Kochi Spirit

Hello Deepu,

The efforts you have taken to contribute in Wikipedia is appreciated. Keep Going. I can understand your feelings favourable to Kochi, since you are from the same place. But I am confused regarding your neglectance towards the State Capital, Trivandrum.

What are the factors that made you think that Kochi is far more important than Trivandrum? Being a person from Northern Kerala, I dont have any hatred towards any of these southern cities, even if our area (Malabar) is the most neglected area in Kerala. I usually feel proud when I hear that companies like Infosys & Wipro is coming to the state or major builders such as Puravankara group is targeting our state or major projects such as Vizhinjam is going to be worked out.

So I thought it would be good to have a personal chat with you so that I too will be aware of the facts that make Kochi superior than Trivandrum, and the facts that make Trivandrum a place to be neglected.

Waiting anxiously (i mean that) for your points. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dikkoos (talk • contribs)

Thanks. I had stopped following the Kochi-Tvm debate after the first few days when it started taking up too much time. I don't bother if both are deleted if it ends this mess.
On another topic, Srikeit recently added audio files to the pages of all Indian cricketers. Maybe we should also try something like that for Kerala articles where the pronounciation is not obvious. Non-Malayalis will never read Chakara as Chaakara. Tintin (talk) 07:48, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Baburaj

How complete is the filmography ? I can think of a few more. Tintin (talk) 13:39, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Re chakara, the current spelling is the more common one, I guess. A redirect from 'chaakara' should be sufficient. Haven't seen any Malayali editors doing audio files. Raghu might be a good person for these sort of things.
I used to be very good in old malayalam songs till the mid-1990s. But ten years outside Kerala has rusted everything. I'll update Baburaj. Also planning to start build up something like this gradually as a private project. Tintin (talk) 14:31, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Soap box et al

Thanks for the note and I also on my part apologize for harsh words. But I want to talk to you directly about my stand.

What I did find distracting about your posts regarding the whole "storm in a teacup" are the allegations galore that you trotted out. Some of your statements I shall list below (not the exact wording, but please dispute me, if I am wrong on the general idea part)

  • wiki pedia is not a soapbox
  • you are all members of a sock puppet army
  • you guys huddle in Skyscrapercity forum to conspire (and what was interesting was khoikhoi took that cue and started his own peddling of that argument)
  • Wikipedia cannot be vandalized

Did you consider the fact that people's sentiments can get hurt by a small thing and if they express that sentiment in public, the above arguments of your's will help the process? And the fact that you are from Kochi and makes no secret of your passion for Kochi adds on to it. So if you argue thus, you will attract the worst possible behaviour from some people and while I dont indulge or condone that behaviour, I can't help you on that. I always like to talk straight, but dislikes being clubbed into the categories you listed above.

KhoiKhoi defended you a lot saying you are frustrated etc. I do not agree with that argument - if you are frustrated, you dont try to hurl the stuff I listed above. Also heard reasonings like "Kerala page is a featured item" and "The page was unedited for years" etc. I thought, information in Wiki is fluid. Just because it is a featured item for years doesn't mean it cannot be disputed. Anyway, I lost interest in you guys' arguments after that.

But rest assured, you have made life difficult for both yourself and all other contributors. I am sure this problem will recur, because a whole lot of Tvpm chaps seems to have woken up and not all of them are going to be nice and sane as you expect, if you provoke them thus. And I am sure other Kochi guys will take that up as a challenge and fight it out. So where does that leave the conflict resolution part?

BTW where did you guys get this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Toch_students_logo.jpg for your school from?

Do you have a valid copyright waiver from the producers of the movie 'HumTum' for using their Intellectual Property? http://www.glamsham.com/download/wallpaper/showwp.asp?walldet=3666&wallid=1918

BTW, I am NOT going to report this or anything, just wanted to show you how ANYONE can make trouble for you. So as I told KhoiKhoi, lets get on with life....... regards Harig 19:27, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Copy of my reply to Harig:

Yash Raj Films, the copyright holder for the movie characters Hum Tum has said that they would get back to me soon about the issue, when I wrote to them eons ago asking for fair use of their characters, and they havent bothered to get back to me as of yet. I can forward that email to you if you wish, or you could confirm it with Yash Raj directly. Anyways, I'll change the logo, as its copyright is ambiguous. It was uploaded by me during my n00b days on wikipedia.
The allegations that I raised are not baseless. I had concrete evidence to support that these people came as a result of a debate that broke out on online forums, including, but not limited to SSC. (People on these forums who support the kochi side has been sending me emails too - on which I';ve never acted on). But my stand, has always been neutral, if you look at anything that I've said. I dont have any Kochi spirit like you people say. I've been on wikipedia for nearly a year now, contributing to a wide variety of articles, keeping WP:NPOV in mind. The only reason that I fought for kochi was that it was regarded as the biggest city in Kerala even by the government, and all sources counted as reliable as per WP:RS. These guys had broken many a rules on wiki, including the 3R rule, which qualifies you for an immediate ban. However, I never reported, and was only calling them for a discussion, but they never came. And its not just me, there are plenty other users here who stand with my viewpoint, but I've been the juicy apple for everyone, coz I'm from Kochi, and my ideas are biased. All I did was reverting the edits that these people made on wikipedia - which were done or seemed to be done wth the motive of advertising TVM as per WP:APT. They deleted maps that did not contain TVM, or contained Kochi. They bolded all instances of TVM in articles, etc.
My voice might have been formal and perhaps a bit harsh, but that is what happens when people make balant accusations against you, and send you threat mails. People work here devoted, without expecting any remmuneration in return.
Anyway, I've closed this issue. I've given up trying to make them see reason. They are now fighting with the wikipedia admins to get TVM shown on all India maps in wikipedia. There are thousands of stub articles on Kerala, which needs attention - i'm not going to waste my time with that silly rhubarb again. thunderboltz(TALK) 06:57, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Mal Wikipedia

I'd like to be an active admin of Wikipedia after my entrance Exams.

Even though the Welcome Newcomers! site requests authors to create an English titled redirect page for every Mal titled article created, this is not often done. I'd prefer titles in English and content in Malayalam. I think that is a better practice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr. XYZ (talk • contribs)

Saravask RFA

Hi Deepujoseph - I've had to remove all votes on Saravask's RFA as per WP:RFA/N, becoz the process has not yet started - he is yet to accept the nom and answer the questions. Please visit the page again soon. Rama's Arrow 14:05, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

about 'kid'

Well you are 17! I am 26... that gives me some rights by most standards :p --hydkat 15:49, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

India SVG map

Image:India-svg-test-2.svg

Draft 1 ready: Please comment here: Image talk:India-svg-test-2.svg. =Nichalp «Talk»= 16:32, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

About the copyvio

Hi Deepu,

Thanks for the info. Although your point is 100% valid with the Wikipedia rules, i seriously don't think Kerala govt. organizations like Water Authority and KSRTC would care about their description in the encylopedia (probably they would be happy). And Alukkas... well they could use the advertising ;)

Anyways, I'm working on improving this, thanks.

Shijaz 17:29, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi Deepu,
I have removed the copyvio on Margin Free Market. I have written confirmation from Mr. Gopan, State President of Consumer Protection and Guidance society to use the content on Wikipedia.org. For more information please see the article's talk page. Shijaz 05:46, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

re: Disambig city names

I agree, context is always given in brakets. --hydkat 09:26, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

TFA status

Tagore has TFA status, may 7th. (This just a head's up msg) --hydkat 12:19, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Map

Hi,

Thanks for notifying me about the map trouble. I did visit the page and noticed that some sort of consensus has been reached and hope no further trouble would be encountered. I couldn't comment on the topic as I was a little busy with some non wiki work. BTW Keep up the good work.

Jisha C J

Cintribs in Mal

Hi Deepu. Happy that you have started contributing ml: wiki. Appreciate your efforts. As you know ml wiki is still in its cradle stage. So what we can do is localise the content. ie translate best articles in English wiki into ml. You can see a list here. In the mean while when the participation grows we can go for unique articles to. BTW if you could tell me your IME or the Unicode font you use I can help you to rectify some of the common spelling mistakes. Once again I appreciate your efforts. Manjithkaini 18:29, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Noticeboard

Isn't it time to start something like Wikipedia:Notice board for Kerala-related topics ? Tintin (talk) 18:29, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Notice board for India-related topics/Kerala sounds more appropriate. Tintin (talk) 08:26, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Okay. We'll wait till some Kerala specific issue comes up and use the oppotunity to advertise it :-) Tintin (talk) 05:10, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Prem Rawat

Since you've dopped in, could you please help edit the Prem Rawat article?Momento 11:10, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

I thought an outsider, who was familiar with Indian culture might be able to add a moderating voice to what is becoming an increasingly heated debate.Momento 21:50, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Nedumpally

Are you familiar with this ? The first, second, and third sections are completely irrelevant to the article. It is not even obvious whether it is about the people of a village or a family.

I am not even able to judge whether it is notable or not. Message boards often have an icon of a head banging itself against a wall. I badly need it here :-/ Tintin (talk) 12:01, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

correct the density of population of kochi

You edited the Population (2001) of Kochi (in the table) as 1,660,000 from 1.3million.

But according to 2001 census, the population of the UA of Kochi is 1,355,406 (ref : www.censusindia.net/results/miilion_plus.html). Also I think the density of population given is incorrect. Can you pls check and correct these. -- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.145.67.22 (talk • contribs)

My reply: The population figure given is as per the Greater Kochi [2001 census] as referenced here. I will check out the density figures given. Cant seem to find a reliable source for it. Let me see if I can find something. Thanks for the notice! -- thunderboltz(TALK) 11:03, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Portal:India/Selected article removal candidates

Hi! The template for Portal:India/Selected article removal candidates was not made, and I tried to make it. However, the result Template:Pisarc is not ok. It is not functioning perfectly as can be seen in the talk pages where this has been put, for example, Talk:Raja Ravi Varma and Talk:Cheese. See that the template shows the name of the article once again at the end! I have already contacted Nichalp (talk · contribs) in this regard. You can also help to resolve this technical matter.

Many articles in Portal:India/Selected articles deserve to be delisted as they are either not india related or do not meet the criteria. It seems from the list as if many articles were chosen by the whims of the editor Shyam Bihari (talk · contribs) rather than going through the prescribed procedure. Please see. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 10:46, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your help. But now a new problem. From the template (on various talk pages) if you click "Leave a comment", it is taking you to the page Portal:India/Selected article removal candidates rather than the voting space of that specific article! Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 11:11, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Churchill Brothers

Hi Deepujoseph,

I couldn't locate anyone from Goa, so I'm taking a chance and hoping that you have some interest in football. Is there any way you can tell me if the home kit of Churchill Brothers Sports Club is red, or is it the white one? I'll be optimistic :) Thanks. Aabha (talk) 14:52, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Haha..this is quite funny. Well, thanks anyways. Yeah, there isn't too much stuff on Indian football on the net. I'll put it on the notice board then. -Aabha (talk) 18:51, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Image copyright problem

Hi! I've noticed that [you've uploaded] a couple of images like this: Image:Kerala high court.jpg. They will have to be deleted immediately as:

  • The *.nic.in domain is not the work of the US Federal Government. It belongs to the government of India.
  • Indian government images are copyrighted and not free.

Please put them up for speedy deletion. Regards, =Nichalp «Talk»= 08:33, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Government yes, but you know the way they love to extract stuff from us ;) .gov.in are BTW not free. :( Regards, =Nichalp «Talk»= 18:33, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

darjeeling

Hi! Could you please have a quick look of Darjeeling? Please give your suggestions in the article's talk page. This is for an internal review before moving to peer review. Thanks. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 17:08, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Hey, hope everything is going well. Thanks for the kind note. If you need janitorial stuff done, just ask. I'll see you around the Kerala-related pages! Saravask 03:13, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Malayalam Edition

മലയാളം വായിക്കാനും എഴുതാനുമറിയുന്ന മലയാളിയാണെന്നു പ്രതീക്ഷിച്ച് താങ്കളെ വിക്കിപീഡിയയുടെ മലയാളം പതിപ്പിലേക്ക് ക്ഷണിക്കുന്നു. ഇടയ്ക്ക് അവിടെയും വന്നെത്തുക. നന്ദി. Tux the penguin 12:02, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Esperanza Newsletter, Issue #3

The Administrator Coaching program is a program aimed at preparing Wikipedians for Adminship or helping them understand the intricacies of Wikipedia better. Recently, changes have been made to the requirements of coachees. Please review them before requesting this service.
This would be something like the Welcoming Committee, but for people who have figured out the basics of editing articles; they're not newcomers any more, but they might want some help in learning new roles. Some might like suggestions about how to learn vandal patrol, or mentoring on taking an article to featured status, or guidance with a proposal they plan to make at the Village Pump, for example. In this way, Esperanza would help keep hope alive for Wikipedia because we would always be grooming the next generation of admins.
Stressbusters
The Stressbusters are a subset of Esperanza aiming to investigate the causes of stress. New eyes on the situation are always welcome!
Note from the editor
As always, MiszaBot handled this delivery. Thank you! Also, congratulations go to Pschemp, Titoxd and Freakofnurture for being elected in the last elections! An Esperanzial May to all of the readership!
  1. Posting logs of the Esperanza IRC channel are explicitly banned anywhere. Violation of this rule results in deletion and a ban from the channel.
  2. A disclaimer is going to be added to the Esperanza main page. We are humans and, as such, are imperfect.
  3. Various revisions have been made to the Code of Conduct. Please see them, as the proposal is ready to be ratified by the community and enacted. All members will members to have to re-confirm their membership after accepting the Code of Conduct.
  4. Referendums are to be held on whether terms of AC members should be lengthened and whether we should abolish votes full stop.
  5. Admin Coaching reform is agreed upon.
Signed...
Celestianpower, JoanneB, Titoxd, Pschemp and Freakofnurture
20:29, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Hey!

Yeah, no replies :( but someone did even better and designed the kits for me here..so it's not that bad either ;) Hey thanks, sure, I know where I'll get a quick response :) And you know where to go in case you need some footie help :) A home kit, incidentally, is the uniform a team wears when it plays on it's own ground. Sometimes the colours of the two teams involved might be similar, and we don't want the referees to get confused, so each team has an 'away' uniform. The team that is visiting usually changes its kit for the day to their away colours. -Aabha (talk) 16:06, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Saints Wikiproject

I noted that you have been contributing to articles about saints. I invite you to join the WikiProject Saints. You can sign up on the page and add the following userbox to your user page.

This user is a member of the Saints WikiProject.


Thanks! --evrik 19:36, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Culture of India

Yo! It's a tremendously tough task. And I do not know if sections like Military history etc are really needed. What do u think?--Dwaipayan (talk) 15:59, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Om second thought, IMO, it's needed. Also "scientific culture", if we can define that. Anyway, we should give a try!! --Dwaipayan (talk) 16:01, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, you belong to Darjeeling. Anyway, in fact, yesterday I tried to do the same with the sections of Paintings, sculpture etc. Bringing synopsis from main articles. See if you like those sections. I have tried to sound as non-regional as possible. But at places, had to give stress. Like, in sculpture South India. In modern lit, Bengal etc. Pleases see.--Dwaipayan (talk) 16:14, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

User:Anwar saadat has reported you for 3RR

Don't worry, he doesn't know what the rule is. Thanks for helping to clean up the Ajith article.ßlηguγΣη | Have your say!!! - review me 02:44, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

the saree thingamajiggy

Well... you were right the first time... It is a seethu mudam. --hydkat 09:24, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

good question - I don't know... maybe its one of those ambigous things... are they any good clothing categorisation or general Indian clothing related topics? --hydkat 09:44, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Hello, he confirms it a type of sari with some background research done... I left a message on his talk page about starting a article on it --hydkat 10:17, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

No a good number of my articles are not my own research. That is an alegation. I have always provided a references/bibliography for all the pages of my edit. Please tell me what do you mean by this atatement. Yes I have read books on saree does that make it my own research. I also gave the names of the books and writers from oxford university who have classified the mundum veryathum as a continuing remnant of the ancient saree.

here are some books that document the kerala two piece mundum neryathu/ kasavu mundu/ kasavu neriyathu and the neryathu saree as one of the several numerous forms of the saree. Please do try to read them.

  • The Sari (2004) Mukulika Banerjee and Daniel Miller. New Delhi, Roli Books, (2004) ISBN 81-7436-280-0. (this one gives brilliant pictures of the mundum neryathum or kasavu mundu as one of the elegant forms of the saree in one of the introductory pages).
  • Boulanger, Chantal; (1997) Saris: An Illustrated Guide to the Indian Art of Draping, Shakti Press International, New York.

In fact there were people debating whether the mundum neryathum is indeed a representative clothing or a saree etc and about to delete it without any referencing based on their own views. Yet that is not termed as own research.

Robin klein 13:15, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

btw...

Aren't you supposed to be studying for a postponed eggjam? --hydkat 10:18, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Re. Thanks

You're quite welcome. I've particularly enjoyed your contributions to India-related articles, with which I've been fascinated. - Reaverdrop 14:52, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Reminder + Suggestion

When using template tags on talk pages, don't forget to substitute with text by adding subst: to the template tag. For example, use {{subst:test}} instead of {{test}}. This reduces server load and prevents accidental blanking of the template.
Comment Important: This talk page is becoming very long. Please consider archiving.

— Ian Manka Talk to me‼ 02:34, 12 May 2006 (UTC)