Talk:Thrillville (theater event)

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Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on 31 May 2007. The result of the discussion was keep.

[edit] Notability and obnoxiously speedy deletion

I agree that the page needs work to be more encyclopedic in tone. I disagree that this topic does not satisfy notability. I'm working on it, but in the meantime, I'd like to ask that "speedier than speedy deletion" not be done on this page-- it is clearly about a topic with at least some amount of cultural significance, and is not "blatant nonsense" or some of the other factors that do indeed merit speedy deletion. Migp 03:59, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

I have cleaned it up a fair amount, it is much more encyclopedic. I've added some references, and therefore removed the "unreferenced" tag. I'm going to rename the page from "Thrillville - A Cult Movie Cabaret" to "Thrillville (theater event) which is a more appropriate page title. My intention is to resurrect the "Thrillville" disambiguation page, because there are three different commercial entities using the name: the theater event, the video game, and an amusement park. Migp 04:40, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes the page needs work and we are working on it. No entry will be "perfect" on it's first save. As the saying goes, Rome was not built in a day. I suggest, instead of deleting articles in a "speedy" fashion, Wiki allows at least 24 hours for "clean up". I had previously asked for [hang on] and yet the article was still deleted shortly after words. No time was allowed for editing.Cylon78 22:39, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

The "speedy deletion" policy specifies the limited cases where administrators may delete Wikipedia pages or media "on sight" without further debate. Non-admins can request deletion of such a page by adding an appropriate template (see below). The word "speedy" in this context refers to the simple decision-making process, not the length of time since the article was created. — excerpt from Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion (emphasis added)
Note that this request is not binding, and the page may still be deleted if the page unquestionably meets the speedy deletion criteria.... — excerpt from Template:Hangon
When I found the article it had been deleted once as advertising and recreated in the exact same format. The first thing I did was went to the Thrillville website, because IMHO, copyright violations are a much worse offence than spamming, and I wanted to make sure the content wasn't lifted verbatim from the website. It wasn't, but it still looked like ad copy to me—it was unquestionably advertising. (As a practical matter, if I'd seen where at least the introduction was rewritten, then I'd have said "Hey, they're making a good faith effort to improve the article" and let the article stand.) Nor did the talk page at least say, "What can I do to make this better?" Compare that with Migp's first comment at top. —C.Fred (talk) 02:35, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Less Notable than Yet Another Roller Coaster Game?

Agreed with the above comments. With the game stealing the limelight from this long-running Bay Area cultural event it is even more insulting how quickly this was marked for deletion. Raitosan 16:25, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

I highlight two words in your comment: "Bay Area." The general perception is that local events are not inherently notable. The one thing in its favor is that it's a unique event; if it were one in a chain of cabaret nights nationwide, the group might be notable, but the individual event/location clearly would not. —C.Fred (talk) 16:33, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
If it has inspired similar events in other locales? Is part of a series of efforts to keep these this film history alive in multiple parts of the country? Unfortunately I do not have sources for these claims, but exactly what is the bar for notability? What level of people need to show up to the event for it to become notable? Thrillville is certainly one facet of an international effort to keep "trash cinema" alive, along with academic conferences like Cine-Excess in London and large gatherings of cult movie fans such as B Movie Celebration in Indiana. Raitosan 16:47, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Also, not to be a stickler, but I do not see a "Local events are less notable" clause on Wikipedia:Notability. It seems to be primarily about independent sources, of which there are already a few. Also the Bay Area is a geographic region populated with 6.7 million souls as of 2000 (source), it's not Somewhere, AK, population 15. In any event, I saw your comment on Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Thrillville_(theater_event) and thank you for it. Raitosan 17:00, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notability and "Localness"

I definitely agree that just because it is "local to the Bay Area" doesn't mean that it does not have notability. "Localness" is indeed not listed on Wikipedia:Notability as has been pointed out; that would rule out a number of significant events (festivals, what have you) that do occur in a single locality. That being equal, then the argument comes down to size-- how BIG does an event have to be, peoplewise-- or how much press does it get? The former criterion (how many people)-- is obviously a sliding scale with no clear demarcation that decides when something is "notable"-- I invite someone to try to define that. The latter criterion (press) is the only reliable measure, and I (and others) are working to include references and sources for this article. Viharo is quite notable in the cult cinema community-- he is the son of a fairly well known B movie actor, and is held in high regard by many directors/producers/actors in the cult cinema world (e.g. Ray Dennis Steckler, Yvonne Craig, William Winckler). Granted, that is not "verifiable" in a 3rd party sense, but if anything, it indicates that he is a rather revered member of the cult cinema community and certainly more than just a "movie night". Migp 18:02, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

"the individual event/location clearly would not." I dissagree 100%. By that logic, Burning Man is not notable as it only happens in one place. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_man (but here's the wikipedia article) By that logic, Woodstock (the concerts) are of no importance as they happen in one place. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=woodstock&fulltext=Search (yet there are numerious entries) What I am seeing are personal beliefs being used as rules, not technical facts.Cylon78 22:38, 31 May 2007 (UTC)