Talk:Thriller (album)/Archive 3

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[edit] Thriller 25

Is there anyway to shorten the Thriller 25 section? We will never get to FA or pass a PR with it the length it is. Perhaps just touch on the main points and put the rest in the talk page to save it from being lost?--DizFreak talk Contributions 17:45, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I think we should give it its own page again, the merger vote was a a disgrace, it wouldnt have been agreed to had we known this is what would happen to it. I have actually made something that we could use on the condition the rest is respected with its own page. Realist2 (talk) 17:50, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Post what you have here on talk, and lets see if we can actually get this going! --DizFreak talk Contributions 18:02, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

If thriller 25 can be respected with its own page again, you can have as little or as much on thriller 25 as you like. --Realist2 (talk) 18:54, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Preposed Thriller 25 content (Realist2)

[edit] Thriller 25

In late 2006, Jackson mentioned a "second chapter" of Thriller on Access Hollywood, saying he would discuss it with collaborator will.i.am. Jackson served as executive producer[1] as announced in an Epic press release on November 30, 2007.[2][3]

Released on February 11, 2008, Thriller 25 came on CD and vinyl with seven bonus tracks,[4] a new song called "For All Time", Vincent Price's voice-over and five remixes featuring contemporary artists Fergie, will.i.am, Kanye West and Akon.[5][6] It also includes a DVD featuring three award-winning music videos, the Emmy-nominated Motown 25 "Billie Jean" performance and a booklet with a message from Jackson.[1] "For All Time", a ballad supposedly dates from 1982, but leaks often credit it as being from Dangerous sessions.[7] Though the original leaked vocals were used, new ones were too.

Two singles were released "The Girl Is Mine 2008" and "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' 2008", with other album tracks such as "Beat It 2008" also charting.

The album was a commerical success, doing particulary well as a re-issue. It peaked at number one in Argentina, Belgium, Colombia, France, India, Korea, Norway, Thailand and Europe. It peaked at number two in the United statues, spent two weeks atop the United World Chart and reached the top ten in over thirty national charts. After six weeks of being on release it had been certified Gold in Australia, Belgium, Canada, India, Ireland, Mexico, Norway, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland and the UK. It performed better in france with a 2x Gold certification and Poland with a Platinum certification in the same six week time period.

Over one and a half million copies of Thriller 25 were shipped in a month.[8] In the United States, Thriller 25 was the second best-selling album of its release week, selling one hundred and sixty six thousand copies, just fourteen thousand short of reaching the number one position. It was unable to chart on the Billboard 200 due to its age but entered the Pop Catalog Charts at number one (where it stayed for seven weeks), with the best sales on that chart since December, 1996. This was Jacksons best launch since Invincible in 2001, significantly out performing The Essential Michael Jackson which sold eight thousand first week copies in 2005.[9][10][11] After eight weeks, United world chart total sales stand at over one and a half million copies.

[edit] bonus content

  1. "Voice-Over Session from "Thriller" Vincent Price (Temperton) – 0:24
  2. "The Girl Is Mine 2008" with will.i.am (Jackson/will.i.am/Harris) – 3:11
  3. "P.Y.T. (Pretty Young Thing) 2008" with will.i.am (Jackson/will.i.am/Harris) – 4:17
  4. "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' 2008" with Akon (Jackson/Akon/Tuinfort) – 4:11
  5. "Beat It 2008" with Fergie (Jackson) – 4:10
  6. "Billie Jean 2008" Kanye West Remix" (Jackson) – 4:34
  7. "For All Time" (Sherwood/Paich/Porcaro)[12] – 4:08
  8. "Got the Hots" (Jackson/Jones) – 4:27 (Japan)
DVD
  1. "Thriller"
  2. "Beat It"
  3. "Billie Jean"
  4. "Billie Jean" (live, Motown 25)


[edit] My rewrite (Dizfreak)

Great stuff here, but its way too long for the main Thriller album. It is not the Thriller album no matter what way we cut it. I have also fixed two spelling errors.--DizFreak talk Contributions 18:49, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I would be happy to accept this version 100% if it can have its own page as well, it seems like a good compromise. ;-) --Realist2 (talk) 19:15, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like a great idea to me as well. The Thriller 25 was a major problem spot to begin with due to length so this is great news!--DizFreak talk Contributions 19:35, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

OK we have come to an agreement, its a compromise that i think will respect the original merger vote. Yes we wanted it sent over here but no we did not want to see it destroyed. Next question is do we need more backing to recreat the Thriller 25 page? We have agreed to it but is that enough? --Realist2 (talk) 19:38, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't think so. We have shown why this warrants its own page now. If any disagree I believe we have good reasons we can show why it needs its own page.--DizFreak talk Contributions 18:30, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Thriller 25 has its own page again, ive already put it up for GA. YEAH!!!!!!!!! Realist2 (talk) 18:37, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Thriller 25

Jackson served as executive producer[1] as announced in an Epic press release on November 30, 2007.[2][3]

Released on February 11, 2008, Thriller 25 came on CD and vinyl with seven bonus tracks,[4] a new song called "For All Time", Vincent Price's voice-over and five remixes featuring contemporary artists Fergie, will.i.am, Kanye West and Akon.[5][6] It also includes a DVD featuring three award-winning music videos, the Emmy-nominated Motown 25 "Billie Jean" performance and a booklet with a message from Jackson.[1] "For All Time", a ballad supposedly dates from 1982, but leaks often credit it as being from Dangerous sessions.[7] Both the leaked vocals and new performances were included on this track.

Two singles were released "The Girl Is Mine 2008" and "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' 2008".

The album was a commercial success, doing particularly well as a re-issue. It peaked at number one in eight counties and Europe. It peaked at number two in the United States, spent two weeks atop the United World Chart and reached the top ten in over thirty national charts. It has been certified Gold in eleven countries including the UK. In France Thriller 25 received a 2x Gold certification, and in Poland it was certified platinum.

In the United States, Thriller 25 was the second best-selling album of its release week, selling one hundred and sixty six thousand copies, just fourteen thousand short of reaching the number one position. It was ineligible for the Billboard 200 chart as a re-release but entered the Pop Catalog Charts at number one (where it stayed for seven weeks), with the best sales on that chart since December, 1996. To date it has sold five hundred thousand copies in the US.

This was Jacksons best launch since Invincible in 2001 with one and a half million copies sold in eight weeks. --DizFreak talk Contributions 18:49, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] bonus content

  1. "Voice-Over Session from "Thriller" Vincent Price (Temperton) – 0:24
  2. "The Girl Is Mine 2008" with will.i.am (Jackson/will.i.am/Harris) – 3:11
  3. "P.Y.T. (Pretty Young Thing) 2008" with will.i.am (Jackson/will.i.am/Harris) – 4:17
  4. "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' 2008" with Akon (Jackson/Akon/Tuinfort) – 4:11
  5. "Beat It 2008" with Fergie (Jackson) – 4:10
  6. "Billie Jean 2008" Kanye West Remix" (Jackson) – 4:34
  7. "For All Time" (Sherwood/Paich/Porcaro)[12] – 4:08
  8. "Got the Hots" (Jackson/Jones) – 4:27 (Japan)
DVD
  1. "Thriller"
  2. "Beat It"
  3. "Billie Jean"
  4. "Billie Jean" (live, Motown 25)

--DizFreak talk Contributions 18:49, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

The more I edit Bonus content, the more I think this should be removed to Thriller 25 via a wikilink. Agree or disagree? Reasons?--DizFreak talk Contributions 16:40, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Im not sure, but what i do know is if it does stay here the heading must specify that its T25 content. Realist2 ('Come Speak To Me') 16:44, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Agreed about it needed appropriate header. I noticed the problem when I ran the CopyEdit script, issues with the headers came up. If we do decide to keep it, I think we need to give Thriller 25 an entire section at this point, and possibly redo the level structure (use of equal signs) so we can give simple headers such as "bonus content" without having Thriller 25 bonus content which is a bit confusing. --DizFreak talk Contributions 16:53, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Im not opposed to removing the T25 content list. It has its own page already so as far as im concerned, do what you think is nessary. Realist2 ('Come Speak To Me') 17:03, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] It has to be done!! (Unmerger .... Im guessing that what its called when you revert a merger?)

  • Ok folks its become obvious through a peer review and an FA review that the Thriller 25 (T25) content is stopping this article reaching FA. Thriller 25 was originally merged here in a long, disputed, very close, double archived dispute. Everyone likes the work on T25 and no-one would have agreed to the merger had they known that much of it would have to be deleted to reach FA. It simply wasn't in the contract so to speak.
  • Me and dizfreak have come to a compromise that some of the T25 stuff should remain here (his version) and Thriller 25 should have its own page again.
  • It seem like the easiest, least painful way to do it. We wanted them merged yes (I myself became quite attached to the monster article) but no-1 will be happy if half the work is completely removed off the site (well MJ haters will, they are so pissed off that T25 was a success lol).

By doing this i believe it will;

  • Respects the first merger vote even if it goes against it. No-one realised this might happen.
  • It will stop Thriller being stuck at GA.
  • If T25 gets its own page it will become GA in its own right.
  • As T25 is still selling well, still getting promotion, if it has its own page it can still be updated and things like gold and platinum certifications will be easy to update and update here. Realist2 (talk) 20:20, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] If you agree

If you agree this is for the best please add so below. Please dont say "Thriller can still pass FA with the T25 content as it is." It has become obvious that it cannot pass as it is.

  • Realist2
  • Dizfreak
  • Kodster (gladly, this is what I'd hoped would happen) - note kodster reviewed it for GA he understands the history of this issue a little more than most.
  • Bookkeeperoftheoccult Bookkeeperoftheoccult (talk) 21:33, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
  • User: The Elfoid
  • Efe — I would like to emphasize that when T25 get its own page, the remaining content on the mother article should be written in prose, no lists. Thank you. --Efe (talk) 00:48, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
    • Obviously, it cannot pass as it became a subject of interest. --Efe (talk) 00:49, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
      • OK, shall we go ahead with this? All the key players seem to be in favour, Realist2 (me) is the main contributer to both articles, Dizfreak created the compromise and was the FA reviewer, Kodster reviewed this article giving it GA statues, The Elfoid was the guy most in support of the original merger and now he wants them seperated again, Efe has worked on the FA and Peer review, and of course we have bookkeeperoftheoccult who has experience getting article up to GA and FA. I think all the key players support.--Realist2 (talk) 00:56, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
        • =) --Efe (talk) 00:59, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
          • OK, Efe ill leave you to set up the T25 page, your more experienced than me. Its called Thriller 25.Realist2 (talk) 01:07, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

OK Done. Realist2 (talk) 02:26, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Profit

It would be nice if anyone has referenced information comparing the sells of Thriller 25 to production and publicity cost and post it to the board. --Zoldello (talk) 20:25, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Hum its a good idea, i wouldn't know, that might be something to consider latter but it wouldn't be suitable for this page as the consensus is that not too much Thriller 25 stuff should be included. However if T25 is allowed its own page again you could be more than welcome to help find out and contribute to it. We would need your help. Realist2 (talk) 20:30, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Next step

Ok the Thriller 25 issue is resolved, whats next, FA or does it need more work? Realist2 (talk) 03:50, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

More work and another PR, probably. --Efe (talk) 05:00, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Another PR would be good, i think everyone is in a postive mood now.....maybe even me... hard to believe. Realist2 (talk) 05:03, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Just a bit more work and I think we'll be more than ready for a PR. I'm really impressed with the work we've done. --DizFreak talk Contributions 18:28, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed edits by Disneyfreak96 (RESOLVED)

I'd like to see this clarified a little and the passive voice removed as much as possible, just so it saves us work when it goes up to PR.

[edit] From Recording section

Jones and Jackson were determined to make a rock song that would appeal to all tastes, spending weeks looking for a suitable guitarist until they found Eddie Van Halen.[4]

When Rod Temperton wrote the title track, he originally wanted to call it "Starlight", always wanting a famous person to speak the ending lyrics. He brought in Vincent Price through a mutual friend, who completed his part in just two takes. Temperton wrote the title track in a taxi, on the way to the recording studio. Jones and Temperton said that some recordings were left off the final cut because they did not follow the theme of the album.[4]

[edit] Proposed edits to Recording

Jones and Jackson were determined to make a rock song that would appeal to all tastes, spending weeks looking for a suitable guitarist for the title track until they found Eddie Van Halen.[4]

When Rod Temperton wrote the song Thriller, he originally wanted to call it "Starlight", always wanting a famous person to speak the ending lyrics. He brought in Vincent Price through a mutual friend, who completed his part in just two takes. Temperton wrote the song in a taxi, on the way to the recording studio. Jones and Temperton said that some recordings were left off the final cut because they did not follow the theme of the album.[4]

  • was unclear to me what song Eddie was to play on, so clarified that. As consequence I needed to move words "title track" to upper paragraph.--DizFreak talk Contributions 18:27, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Eddie Van Halen did "Beat It" which isn't the title track. Realist2 (talk) 18:39, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the heads up, I shouldn't edit facts so early in the morn.--DizFreak talk Contributions 18:52, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

OK, ill call this resolved then. Realist2 (talk) 19:12, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] From Release section

Thriller was reissued in 2001 as Thriller: Special Edition. The original tracks were remastered; a new booklet and additional material were also included in the package. The bonus material included the song "Someone In the Dark", "Carousel" and Jackson's original "Billie Jean" demo. Audio interviews with Jones and Temperton discussing the recording of the album were also included.[4][11]

For Thriller 25, Jackson served as executive producer[9] as announced in an Epic press release on November 30, 2007.[12][13]


[edit] Proposed edits to Release

Thriller was reissued in 2001 with additional material with the title Thriller: Special Edition. The original tracks were remastered along with a new booklet and additional material. The bonus material included the song "Someone In the Dark", "Carousel" and Jackson's original "Billie Jean" demo as well as audio interviews with Jones and Temperton discussing the recording of the album. [4][11]

For Thriller 25, an Epic press realease on November 30, 2007 announced that Jackson served as executive producer.[9][12][13]

  • some of this was a bit unclear to me, just trying to make it clearer. Also attempting to get rid of the passive voice. I'll work on some more removal of passive voice if you'd like DizFreak talk Contributions 18:27, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
  • It should read that the press release tells us A)Thriller 25 is coming out B)MJ is the exec producer.Realist2 (talk) 18:42, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
  • How is this?

On November 30, 2007 in a press release, Epic announced the release of the album Thriller 25 with Jackson serving as executive producer.

I support. Realist2 (talk) 19:29, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thriller 25 (something we might have forgot)(RESOLVED)

We have talked about the commercial reaction to T25 but havent mentioned the critical reaction? My gut feeling says no need but im just checking. Realist2 (talk) 19:35, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Good point. What was the general critical reaction? I know Amazon gave it good reviews (both professional and users) but that's all I know...--DizFreak talk Contributions 19:40, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I made a full critical reaction section at the T25 article today, have a look at that and see if you think some of it could be brought over here. Realist2 (talk) 19:44, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I think you handled it very well. Keep as is. DizFreak talk Contributions 00:30, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Highly publicized events (RESOLVED)

I hate to see it go, as although not a fan by any means, the section does bring back memories of my childhood. However, much of it has very little to do with the album outside of the fact the events occured during the time he was still famous due to Thriller (album). I think we will need to cut it down. If you disagree please let me know why so we can do this in agreement. --DizFreak talk Contributions 19:39, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

We can trim it i agree but removal isnt good. Ive researched this long and hard, most people ask why did Thriller outsell every other album. The album was released in 1982 but it was the best selling album of 1983, 1984 and the second best selling of 1985. There was a reason for that and these events are atributed to it. The section is there to explain to the reader why Thriller sold like it did. Maybe that needs more clarification. Additionally some of it is more important than about the sales. The White House incident represented a serious change in social attitudes to race. It was because of Thriller that this was allowed to happen.

I support trimming but removal is unwise. Clarification might be better. Realist2 (talk) 19:50, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

If we can trim it quite a bit and tie it into Thriller's popularity I'm all for it.--DizFreak talk Contributions 20:16, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

OK you give it a trim, remove what content you think is unnessary, i will look at what you've removed and see if i can bring myself to support it. Realist2 (talk) 20:19, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

On my way to work, will get on this tonight or tomorrow. I will post my edits here before placing them on the article.DizFreak talk Contributions 20:22, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

OK and also consider the critical review of Thriller 25. Realist2 (talk) 20:28, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Don't worry, that's on my list of things to do.--DizFreak talk Contributions 20:34, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Here is my first draft. Strikeouts is what I think need to be removed.

[edit] Highly publicized events (RESOLVED)

A number of highly publicized events, from 1983 to 1985, have been attributed to increasing the sales of the album. On March 25, 1983 Jackson performed "Billie Jean" live on the Motown 25: Yesterday, Today, Forever television special. Debuting his signature move – the moonwalk – Jackson's performances during the event caused many to view him as one of the greatest dancers of all time. The performance was extraordinarily popular, with over forty-seven million views of the first televised airing, which was often compared to Elvis Presley and the The Beatles appearing on The Ed Sullivan Show.[13]

I struck this out as it still reads too much like an opinion. Also what is "many"?
Ended up writing the sentence as this, otherwise it would have become a fragment

On March 25, 1983 Jackson performed "Billie Jean" live on the Motown 25: Yesterday, Today, Forever television special where he first performed his signature move the moonwalk.

On January 27, 1984, Jackson began filming two Pepsi Cola commercials in front of a simulated live audience at the Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles. As Jackson descended a podium, fireworks set his hair alight. Jackson was taken out of the building on a stretcher in front of the public and photographers. The accident was the lead story on most international television and newspaper reporters. Jackson received sympathy from the public, celebrities and even President Ronald Reagan. When the recording of the accident was released to the press, Thriller's sales were up one hundred and fifty thousand copies from the previous week.[14]

Two problems here. First reporters report the news. They aren't the news. Second, again the problem with "what is most?" Does that include the Soviet Russia and Indochina? What about the many local publications. If you must keep it, could you replace it with a couple of example headlines and references (although I really prefer striking it out).

Jackson won eight awards during the 1984 Grammys. It was the highest-rated Grammys telecast in history (although it has since slipped into second place). The subsequent week saw Thriller have its second-best week sales figures ever in America.[15] Unlike later albums, Thriller did not have an official tour to promote it, but the Jacksons' "Victory Tour", which began on July 6, 1984 showcased much of Michael Jackson's new solo material to more than two million Americans and increased the sales of Thriller.[16]

Keep.

On March 7, 1985, the charity single song "We Are the World" was released worldwide to aid people in Africa and the United States. Written primarily by Jackson, with help from Lionel Richie, it became one of the best-selling singles of all time, with nearly twenty million copies sold and millions of dollars raised for charity. It was the first instance where Jackson became seen as a humanitarian. Three months after the release of "We Are the World," sales of Thriller rose thirty percent over the sales of the prior three months.[17]

Re-write the sentence where Jackson was seen as a humanitarian in general. This gets rid of the dreaded "first" word (some fans probably had already known he gave to charities) and it also shows that general people may not follow music but now know MJ as a humanitarian, even if they didn't know Thriller. "After the release of the single, Jackson was perceived as a humanitarian. The final sentence of this paragraph is a bit hard to understand. Are you saying that Thriller sales went up compared to three months before WATW? DizFreak talk Contributions 00:53, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

OK, i agree, to all that, as for the charity section sure say your perceived idea. As for that last sentance , yes thats what im saying about the sales. Realist2 ('Come Speak To Me') 02:32, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Okay, done. Any luck hearing back from the League of Copyeditors who were going to take a look at this article? I don't see anything from them, but half the time I'm blind.DizFreak talk Contributions 20:08, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
No nothing, and ive done all the suggestions of the 2 people who peer reviewed it. What next, we should probably check the critera list again, whats left on that? Realist2 ('Come Speak To Me') 20:11, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Singles box (RESOLVED)

An editer just added a huge singles box to the main info box. Will this hurt its FA chances? Realist2 (talk) 03:59, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I believe so. --DizFreak talk Contributions 15:48, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
Im happy to see it go but there is no harm leaving the topic open for discussion, even if we take it into the FA review with us, if they dont like it, well it only takes 6 seconds to remove. Realist2 ('Come Speak To Me') 16:36, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
Sounds like a good move--DizFreak talk Contributions 16:54, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
OK im marking as resolved, as far as im concerned if it becomes an issue later ill remove it in the blink of an eye. Realist2 ('Come Speak To Me') 16:58, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] New Talk Page...What is a Featured article?

Making this new page so we have the list of what will make Thriller a featured article, also way we can also bring up questions we may have on the rules in one place where we can follow the rules themselves. Made this page because I wanted to bring up some stuff about Passive verbs and would have liked access to them. This will also be a good place I believe we can mark off each part as we complete it, as well as mark off the rule we are working on.--DizFreak talk Contributions 20:02, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Would it be ok to mark off reliability (because that was already checked at the first FA review and passed) and cross off stapility. Also to cross off point 3 about images. Realist2 (talk) 20:12, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Feel free to cross of anything we met in the FA. Also might want to make an asterisk and comment underneath stating why it was considered "done". --DizFreak talk Contributions 20:23, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Removed Motown 25 image as it was due to be deleted by Wiki. We now meet the image criteria so checking it off. --DizFreak talk Contributions 20:40, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Great, we have enough pictures anyway, not the end of world. Realist2 (talk) 20:43, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Here is where we stand on featured article DizFreak talk Contributions 20:43, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] What we need to meet to make FA.

A featured article exemplifies our very best work and features professional standards of writing and presentation. In addition to meeting the requirements for all Wikipedia articles, it has the following attributes.

  1. It is well-written, comprehensive, factually accurate, neutral and stable.
    • (a) "Well-written" means that the prose is engaging, even brilliant, and of professional standard.
    • (b) "Comprehensive" means that the article does not neglect major facts and details.
    1. Y Done I think we have not deleted any major fact or detail. DizFreak talk Contributions 20:35, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
    • (c) "Factually accurate" means that claims are verifiable against reliable sources and accurately represent the relevant body of published knowledge. Claims are supported with specific evidence and external citations; this involves the provision of a "References" section in which sources are set out, complemented by inline citations where appropriate.
    1. Y Done - All citations were checked in first FA review.
    1. Y Done - its quite hard to say anything negative about Thriller but I've managed to say a few things about the title track.
    • (e) "Stable" means that the article is not the subject of ongoing edit wars and that its content does not change significantly from day to day, except for edits made in response to the featured article process.
    1. Y Done - Never been an issue really.
  2. It follows the style guidelines, including:
    • (a) a concise lead section that summarizes the topic and prepares the reader for the greater detail in the subsequent sections;
    • I think we need a couple of things here. First, we have info on Thriller 25 being a commercial success with no references. There is no balance of the first re-release of Thriller. Either we need to put something up on the first release with a ref, or delete the final sentence in the lead. Personally, I say take out that final sentence, it is not relevant to Thriller in the most concise sense. Note that I am used to editing in terms of journalism so I have a tendency to cut things as short as possible in the lead.DizFreak talk Contributions 20:32, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
      • Removed sentance, what else needs doing to lead?
    • (b) a system of hierarchical headings and table of contents that is substantial but not overwhelming (see section help);
    1. Y Done - now that T25 is out the way, its no issue.
    • (c) consistently formatted inline citations using either footnotes[18] or Harvard referencing (Smith 2007, p. 1), where they are appropriate (see 1c). (See citing sources for suggestions on formatting references; for articles with footnotes or endnotes, the meta:cite format is recommended.)
    1. Y Done - all sorted from first FA review
  2. It has images and other media where they are appropriate to the subject, with succinct captions and acceptable copyright status. Non-free images or media must meet the criteria for the inclusion of non-free content and be labeled accordingly.
    1. Y Done - removed the one questionable image. DizFreak talk Contributions 20:42, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
  3. It is of appropriate length, staying focused on the main topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
    1. Y Done - I will give it one last go-over after I copyedit this myself. However, with the new page on Thriller 25 and the influence and legacy sections done I think we are close to good to go on this section. DizFreak talk Contributions 20:32, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
  • OK , it looks like all thats left is a sort out of the lead and a copy edit. Realist2 ('Come Speak To Me') 21:05, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Peer review - automated script

I went ahead and started looking at the automated script section. This includes "Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (headings), headings generally should not repeat the title of the article. For example, if the article was Ferdinand Magellan, instead of using the heading ==Magellan's journey==, use ==Journey==.[?]"

I am leaving the headers now until we can discuss them. --DizFreak talk Contributions 15:56, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Checked them for contractions. All were in quotes so we're good to go on that point. The 'weasel words" were in reference to winning multiple gold/platinum albums so we are okay on that, although I would like to neaten it up to be safe.--DizFreak talk Contributions 16:04, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] One of the first African-American musicians on the cover of Rolling Stone (RESOLVED)

Can I correct this page? Michael WAS one of the first African-American musicians on the cover of Rolling Stone but he first hit the cover in 1971 when he was twelve. I forgot the title of the cover but it was something to the effect of "What is this kid doing up past his bedtime?" and his look with the big Afro and the stern look on his face. It was a big deal back then because up until then only Tina Turner and Jimi Hendrix were on the cover. Michael, I believe, was the third. The 1983 cover where he was on was his second, he had another one in 1992. BrothaTimothy (talk · contribs) 04:01, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

If you can source it, i had no idea he was on it when he was 12. Bring a source to the talk page and we can think about how to re word it. Realist2 ('Come Speak To Me') 04:20, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Here's a link to the picture - [1] and it's dated April 29, 1971. This was still around the time it was assumed MJ was two years younger than what he was (just turning 11) when he was actually 12 when this picture was taken. BrothaTimothy (talk · contribs) 07:39, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

And this one mentions it briefly: [2]. BrothaTimothy (talk · contribs) 07:42, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

The first link doesnt go to a rolling stone picture, the second source is unreliable and will be rejected at the next FA review. Realist2 ('Come Speak To Me') 07:45, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

I can see the picture just fine. LOL Click on it again. BrothaTimothy (talk · contribs) 07:52, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Go here if you don't believe me then: [3]. Holla. BrothaTimothy (talk · contribs) 07:53, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Lol, still dont see it on the first link, but i do see it on the third link, which is a great source actually. OK,how would you like the article reworded? Realist2 ('Come Speak To Me') 07:57, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't know, lol. Matter of fact, if you google on Rolling Stone back covers, Michael wasn't even the second or third, he was like the fifth black music act to be on the cover. Tina Turner made the cover on Rolling Stone's second cover back in 1967! Jimi Hendrix was on there several times as well before Mike. Otis Redding was in one cover shared with Hendrix and another rocker. Sly & the Family Stone made the cover in 1970 followed by Little Richard. Michael came right after them, maybe it's best to take that out since I can't find no other way you can reword it. Who came up with that "one of the first black musicians on Rolling Stone" during "Thriller" bit? BrothaTimothy (talk · contribs) 08:02, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Its been there for ages, i do specifically know that he was turned down for rolling stone covers during the late 70's. Realist2 ('Come Speak To Me') 08:06, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, interesting. Diana Ross and Marvin Gaye had more covers on Rolling Stone than Michael during that period (yes Diana & Marvin were on the cover of Rolling Stone), lol. BrothaTimothy (talk · contribs) 08:12, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Haha, Chuck Berry was even on the cover before MJ [4] back in '69. BrothaTimothy (talk · contribs) 08:14, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Right, looks like that needs removing from article then. Realist2 ('Come Speak To Me') 08:15, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lead rewrite (RESOLVED)

Thriller is the sixth studio album by American pop singer Michael Jackson. It was released on November 30, 1982 by Epic Records, quickly becoming the best selling album of all time, selling between forty-five and one hundred million copies worldwide. Seven of the nine songs on the album went on to be top 10 singles.

Thriller cemented Jackson as the predominant pop star of the late twentieth century, enabling him to break down racial barriers by appearing on MTV and visiting the President at the White House. The album was the first to use music videos as successful promotional tools, with the videos for "Thriller", "Billie Jean" and "Beat It" all receiving regular rotation on MTV.

The album itself also received overwhelmingly positive reviews, with All Music Guide giving it a perfect score. Thriller won the Grammy Award for Album of the Year, and 26 years later was inducted into the Grammy Hall of Fame in 2008. As a sign of the album's longevity, in 2003 Thriller was ranked #20 on Rolling Stone 500 Greatest Albums of All time list.[19]

In 2001, the album was reissued as Thriller: Special Edition, which contained additional audio interviews, a demo recording and the Grammy winning song "Someone In the Dark". 2008 saw a second reissue as Thriller 25 which contained remixes featuring contemporary artists, a previously unreleased song and a DVD.

  • First Para. Edited down the info on sales to one sentence for brevity. Also, there was no third party source--the only reference was an MJ book. Removed info on Thriller, Beat It, and Billie Jean since they are all mentioned in the second paragraph.DizFreak talk Contributions 17:35, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Ill add it now. Realist2 ('Come Speak To Me') 18:07, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah it is small. I visited several other album FA and noticed they were shorter which is what I based this on. Thanks for putting it in the article. DizFreak talk Contributions 18:46, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
So all thats left is a copy edit. Hum, thats not my job. Realist2 ('Come Speak To Me') 18:49, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Edited the part where it was written "Grammy-winning song "Someone in the Dark"", did it really? LOL BrothaTimothy (talk · contribs) 22:39, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

I clarified it. Realist2 ('Come Speak To Me') 22:51, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Copyedit discussion

I am ready to copy edit this article for standard English errors. I noticed my links to thellie Jean and Beat It music videos don't have wikipages. Would you like me to link to the singles instead? DizFreak talk Contributions 18:52, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

I already did link it to the singles i believe? Realist2 ('Come Speak To Me') 18:54, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Themes

Did a quick copyedit. Noticed one thing (besides the obvious lack of citations that will be fixed later):

Okay, there is WAY too many lyrics. I understand it's proving a point, but it's too much, almost threatening against the copyright. Also, it's not good to have that many lyrics in this paragraph. The lyrics need either to be described in more detail, or just take it out (it's fine without the lyrics, as long as you finish the sentence). Cheers, Kodster (You talkin' to me?) (Stuff I messed up) 02:39, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, i was gonna source it as soon as we had the base done and agreed to, regarding the lyrical quote, it starts from "looking out" which means the lyrical quote reaches just over three lines, its not too much imo. We could remove the lyrics and i could bulk the section up with something else tho. ;-( Realist2 ('Come Speak To Me') 02:49, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Also, the first few sentences:

“ Thriller has been accused of having no actual focus and is instead, a collection of unconnected good songs, some of which are linked by the themes of paranoia or the supernatural. It showcased Jackson as a creator of dance hits and ballads, a preoccupation that would continue in his future work. ”

It starts off with "has been accused", and then in the next sentence, it just says that "it showcases Jackson as a creator...", just as if it were a fact. It starts with a topic and doesn't follow through with it. I think the references should be found first, so that we can actually see firsthand what people are saying rather than guessing. The section will probably be a bit different after the references. Cheers, Kodster (You talkin' to me?) (Stuff I messed up) 02:45, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

My source is a book, kinda makes that one hard. Doh!Realist2 ('Come Speak To Me') 02:49, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

The book seems biased and I don't know if we can even put a "Themes" section here. BrothaTimothy (talk · contribs) 00:50, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Ha, trust me the books NOT biased, it will tell you a few things you wouldnt want to hear about Jackson (ashuming your a fan). We actually do need a themes section per the peer review. Realist2 ('Come Speak To Me') 00:53, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

LOL, yeah I'm a fan. Maybe it can be worded better, lol. BrothaTimothy (talk · contribs) 17:20, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Sure, im gonna get to it soon, that construction template has been up a while, the books good, its the only place you can find any truth about the guy, the good and the bad. Ill source it now, its quite easy, it all came from 2 pages of the book. We can also expand it with other sources. Realist2 ('Come Speak To Me') 17:33, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I just put in a source from Ebony's article on Michael's 25th anniversary of Thriller in how he based the album on all of the songs on it to be like it was "a hit". BrothaTimothy (talk · contribs) 17:59, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, i moved it to the recording section, i hope you dont mind, it makes more sense there. Realist2 ('Come Speak To Me') 18:04, 14 May 2008 (UTC)