Talk:Threads

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I think Threads should have a link direct to Threads (television show), and a link to Thread, rather than redirecting to the latter - and no mention of the programme at all, until I put one in, which is strange as it would appear there used to be something related to the programme here. Plus lots of links to this page. Not entirely sure why the main article isn't here - maybe there's something on the talk page for it? sheridan 23:06, 2005 Jun 4 (UTC)

I have just "repatriated" the article here to its correct location. The move was done without discussion by an IP editor by cut and paste so had also lost history. All is now good again! --Vamp:Willow 00:39, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Plagiarism 2 Availability 3 The Day After 4 Style 5 Here's the copyvio stuff, for redaction if appropriate. 5.1 The buildup 5.2 Escalation 5.3 War 5.4 Aftermath (short term) 5.5 Aftermath (long-term) 6 Off-topic list moved to independent article 7 Fair use rationale for Image:Threadsmoviecover.jpg

[edit] Plagiarism

Large sections of this page are plagiarised from here [1] - i will either attempt a cleaup or leave a cleanup tag myself Tyhopho 21:20, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

The contributor of that material has been consulted, and he maintains that the material is not under copyright, and/or that no rights have been reserved, and that this justifies his use. This is incorrect on several grounds:

1. The source site has been under copyright from the time it was saved to disk. As its contents and its domain name show (btinternet.com is British Telecom), it was created in the United Kingdom, where copyright inheres in a work from the time it is recorded. (The same is true in the U.S., incidentally.)

2. The Berne Convention requires that copyright protection be extended automatically, without requirement of notice or registration. The U.K. has been party to the Berne Convention since 1887. (And yes, Wikipedia does have to honor British copyrights, since it is legally located in Florida, and the U.S. acceded to the Berne Convention in 1989. Thanks for asking.)

3. Initially, the author is the sole holder, not only of the rights to copy, to distribute copies, to display, and to create derivative works, but also of the right to sell or assign these rights. Unless he exercises this latter right, the other rights never pertain to anyone else—they are 'reserved' by default.

4. User:Jim62sch concedes that an attribution to the source is necessary, but seems to believe that it is also sufficient. Citation resolves plagiarism, which is a problem of intellectual honesty, but under the circumstances it has no bearing on copyright infringement, which is a problem of law. Most particularly, a citation would not make this a fair use of text.

5. It is worth noting that the front page of the source site does contain a copyright notice, although it does not say whether this notice concerns merely that page, or the whole site. (The whole site is protected anyway, as previously discussed.) From the fact that the author did put this notice on his front page, I infer that he could well have put a waiver or license of rights on the Threads page, had he wished to. Because he did not do so, I infer that he meant it to have just the protected status that it does have. Your conclusions may differ.

Enough theory. On a practical level, I've emailed the author a request for permission, with an explanation of the GFDL and a promise to remove the offending material if he dislikes it. I told him I'd assume permission refused if I didn't hear back in two weeks. So if you don't hear from me on or before April 26, feel free to nukenuke the offending edits. eritain 02:12, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

OK, well now I know something new. One other thing -- that write up appears on several web-sites, so I'm guessing either it's been copyvio'd a lot. Anyway, feel free to do what you need to do with the article, and accept my apologies for not quite grasping the part of copyright law you pointed out. •Jim62sch• 09:41, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Am I the only one that feels that this article over-describes the film? You need not watch it; just read the Wikipedia article. Look at the plot sections in Casablanca, Gone With The Wind and The Deer Hunter (to name three I pseudo-randomly chose). Furthermore, a lot of the parts have been copied verbatim from the film's narrator. Stonefield 09:04, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I disagree, the more detail in an article, the better. Besides, there is a lot of detail in film (e.g., cinematography, pacing, soundtrack) that cannot be conveyed in print—and even if you could convey those details in print, it still wouldn't feel the same as if you had sat through the whole film.
–Gravinos (To each their own*      _{*as long as they leave me alone.}) 11:36, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Availability

There was no mention of the extremely scarce 1987 VHS release so I have added this. I would also cast doubt on the claim that the 2000 DVD release "soon went out of production" or "quickly became a collector's item" - I picked up a heavily discounted copy in 2003 and I noticed at the time it was available from most of the major online retailers at a comparably low price. I have modified accordingly. DickTurnip 19:23, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

It was a good set of edits all round Tyhopho 21:12, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Day After

An offhand comment in the introduction calls "The Day After" "theoretically inaccurate". To what does this comment refer? (Without supporting references, this is probably not NPOV.)

I've tagged the claim that Threads was "was conceived as the British counterpart to" The Day After for a citation. Given that the American production was screened on 20 November 1983, and Threads was supposedly shot in "late-1983," it seems unlikely there was even an indirect link between the two. Nick Cooper 18:49, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I've no evidence other than having watched both films, but on face value they seem much to similar in plot, structure and tone to be unrelated. Both of them follow the lives of a group of ordinary, mainly non-political people from in and around a provinical city through an early-eighties nuclear war. Both of them depict the gross inadequacies of civil defence measures and the swift overwhelming of medical facilities, as well as marshall law and the government-led attempts at reconstruction. The political messages of both are identical. I wish I had some facts to support the link though - can anyone help? Thom2002 15:01, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Martial law. 68Kustom (talk) 22:15, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Watching both movies, there are several scenes that are virtually identical, right down to the dialogue. Both movies have women preparing to marry, then losing their future husbands in the bombing. Both movies have a family that manages to plan ahead for the war so that they can shelter in their basements, then those who remain behind are killed by looters. The oldest daughter in both of these "safe" families strikes out on her own in the radiation before returning to the shelter. The government group in the basement trying to communicate with the outside world is similar to the professor trying to communicate with the world. There's even childbirth into this very changed world right at the end of both movies. Some parallels are to be expected due to similar subject matter, but the movies are too similar for coincidence. 74.130.80.247 03:45, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

I think there should be a section in this article comparing the two films, as well as one in the The Day After article.
–Gravinos (To each their own*      _{*as long as they leave me alone.}) 11:28, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Style

I don't call if it is plagarism or not - the writing doesn't read well.

I took out some run-on sentences, comma splices, and overall wordiness. I also added some paragraph breaks where they naturrally should be. I did not alter basic factual content, whether correct or not. Hope it reads better now. 68Kustom (talk) 22:18, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Here's the copyvio stuff, for redaction if appropriate.

If we decide that a more detailed plot outline is appropriate, we can use this as a source, but it needs (a) substantial reworking and (b) a citation in order to make it (a) not plagiarism and (b) not sucky. I don't think we need this much detail in any case. So, with apologies to those who worked on it, copyedited it, improved the style, and wikified it, here's the big honking copyvio that cannot remain any longer. eritain 01:34, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Template:Spoiler

[edit] The buildup

"In an urban society everything connects, each person's needs are fed by the skills of many others. Our lives are woven together in a fabric, but the connections that make society strong also make it vulnerable".

Introduced by these words, Threads is set in the depressed industrial city of Sheffield, England, and centres on two families: the Kemps and the Becketts. It is Saturday, March 5^[1]. Ruth Beckett (Karen Meagher) and Jimmy Kemp (Reese Dinsdale) are courting, and in the first scene of the film, they are in Jimmy's parked car overlooking Sheffield. Captions note that the city is 17 miles away from RAF Finningley, a base for both USAF F-4 Phantoms and an RAF communication center, thus making it high priority military target.

The political background is a US backed coup in Iran, the subsequent invasion of northern Iran by the USSR to take over oil fields in the south and west, and tactical moves by the Warsaw Pact and the North Atlantic Treaty organization (NATO) in East Germany and West Germany.

The film jumps ahead to May 11, and the Becketts are awaiting a visit from the Kemps, since Ruth is pregnant with Jimmy's child, and they are planning to get married. Meanwhile, the BBC reports that the American submarine Los Angeles has been attacked and destroyed in the Persian Gulf, and the United States has announced that it plans to send a rapid deployment force into western Iran in order to block any possible Soviet move towards the oil fields.

In a pub, Jimmy and his friend Bob are discussing the international situation over a pint, when it is announced on the TV that the United States has accused the Soviets of moving nuclear warheads into their new base in Iran. Bob's concluding comment is "... I'll tell you one thing; if the bomb does drop I want to be pissed out of my mind and straight underneath it when it happens...."

The United Kingdom has emergency plans for war, which it begins putting into effect. Should the central government fail, power can be transferred to a network of local officials. In an urban area like Sheffield, there is already a designated wartime controller -- the city's peacetime chief executive. If and when this transfer happens depends on the crisis itself.

[edit] Escalation

On Saturday, May 21, the Ministry of Defence begins to move troops into mainland Europe on the border with East Germany. British Airways and all cross-channel shipping and ferries are commandeered for this purpose. Peace rallies are held throughout the country in an attempt to defuse the situation. The United States demands a joint withdrawal from Iran by noon on Sunday, May 22. The Soviets refuse.

Overnight reports indicate build-ups of Soviet forces along the Iranian border and in East Germany. At 1PM local time on Sunday, one hour after the US ultimatum expires, American B52-Gs strike the Soviet base in Iran with conventional weapons. The Soviets defend the base with a single nuclear air defence missile, resulting in the loss of many B52s. At 2PM, the United States retaliates with a tactical nuclear weapon, destroying the Soviet base, and the exchange stops.

In Britain, looting and lawlessness break out. On May 24, there are early reports of an outbreak of fighting between the United States and Soviets in Iran and the Persian Gulf. Parliament passes an Emergency Powers Act. Many begin to leave large population centers for the relative safety of the West Country and Welsh countryside. This movement is against government advice. Official Essential Service routes are set up to enable vital movements to continue (such as soldiers, tanks, ammunition, food, fuel and medical supplies), hence motorways are closed to all but military traffic . Known and potential subversives are arrested.

The American carrier Kitty Hawk is sunk in the Persian Gulf. America responds with an air and naval blockade of Cuba. Many people follow government advice to build improvised fallout shelters. Protect and Survive booklets are distributed, which include advice that a fall-out room should be set up with provisions for the family for 14 days stored within it. A 'lean-to' should be built out of boards, doors, etc., and rested against an inner wall. The Kemps build such a structure, the Becketts decide to use their cellar. A radio news broadcast notes "There has been a run on tinned food, sugar and other storable items that is causing shortages in some areas. A spokesman for the main supermarket chains says that fuel shortages are hindering re-supply and urged the public to calm down".

On May 25, Sheffield officials enter the bunker (more accurately, the basement/cellar used to store documents) under the Town Hall. Many officers have had no training; some discovered their emergency role only in the last few days, and almost all are unsure of their exact duties.

Ruth is with her parents, and has decided not to go into work because she is not feeling well; whether this is due to morning sickness or anxiety over the crisis it is not made clear in this scene. When her mother attempts telephoning Ruth's place of employment to tell them that she isn't coming in for work, her mother discovers that the telephone has been disconnected. The telephone preference system has been activated, allowing all but ten percent to be cut off at will, in order to allow hospitals, utilities, military bases and the like to still have a phone line. It also prevents spies listening in.

The UK Warning and Monitoring Organisation is responsible for issuing the "four-minute warning". The warning originates at RAF High Wycombe near London, and is relayed to over 250 control points in major police stations. Should war arrive, the police will activate the 7,000 automated warning sirens in the UK. These are backed up by 11,000 other warning points in rural areas, located in coastguard stations, hospitals, village shops and even pubs, these warning points sound the alarm by hand-siren. Small three person bunkers scattered all over the UK are staffed to sound the alarm and monitor blast and fall-out levels.

[edit] War

It is now 8:00 AM May 26. In the bunker under Sheffield town hall, a WB400 warning receiver^[2] is making a 'ticking' sound^[3], a nuclear 'all clear'. The Kemps are removing inside doors to use for their shelter, while the radio plays an information broadcast. By this time, public information films are being broadcast almost constantly.

At 8:30 AM, (3:30am in Washington D.C.), it is noted that over the last few days neither the President nor his staff will have had more than a few hours rest; this is when they may be asleep, and thus this is when Western response will be slowest. At 8:30 AM, the 'ticking' sound of the warning receiver is replaced by an alarm sound and the announcement "ATTACK WARNING RED", indicating an attack in progress. The police sound the Air Raid sirens, causing Jimmy and Bob to look for cover. At 8:35 AM single warhead is detonated high over the North Sea; the Electromagnetic Pulse knocks out power and communication systems. At 8:37 AM, the first salvos hit NATO military targets, including RAF Finningley. The Finningley blast breaks windows, and the nuclear flash blinds many in Sheffield who were caught outside. Ruth and her parents have taken shelter in their basement with their invalid grandmother (meanwhile, the family cat is killed), while the Kemps have attempted to build a makeshift shelter using doors and furniture. This first salvo totals 80 megatons. Seeing the mushroom cloud rising from RAF Finningley, Jimmy leaves Bob, and runs off to find Ruth. This is the last we see of him. The Kemps' son Michael panics, and runs outside.

The nuclear exchange continues, with more strategic weapons being used. One of these large bombs is detonated over Sheffield, a one-megaton airburst warhead. Buildings explode and collapse (including the town hall over the bunker, trapping the officials inside) and milk bottles melt in the heat. The Kemps' young son Michael is either killed by the heat's blast or by a hail of falling bricks, or both, and Mrs. Kemp is blinded and maimed when she tries to save him instead of taking shelter in the inner refuge.

Initial casualties are between 2.5 and 9 million. An hour and 25 minutes after the attack (10:00AM) the first fall-out dust settles on Sheffield from a detonation in Crewe. About two thirds of the houses in the UK are in fire zones. Almost all windows are broken and most roofs are open to the skies. Fire fighting on any large scale is unlikely. Food distribution also unlikely for at least 3-4 weeks. In total, out of a 3,000 megaton exchange between East and West, an estimated 210 megatons fall on the UK -- that is the equivalent of 3.5 tonnes of high explosive for every person in the country.

[edit] Aftermath (short term)

The first duty of the Sheffield officials is maintaining communication with other control centres and assessing the damage. A large map on the wall is marked with concentric circles around the detonations. These "release bands" determine the length of time people will have to stay in their shelters.

The Kemps emerge from their shelter to a scene of total devastation. Their survival chances are minimal as the damage to their house has exposed them to fallout. They find Michael's body under rubble in the garden. Mrs. Kemp dies shortly thereafter from radiation and her injuries. The Becketts, living in a cellar outside the fire zone, still suffer radiation sickness but survive the initial effects of the attack. Ruth's grandmother dies in her sleep. While her parents are removing the body, Ruth decides to leave the basement. Shortly afterwards the house is raided by looters who kill her parents.

Finding medical help is almost impossible - without power, water or drug supplies there is almost no way any doctor could render anything more than basic help. Also, given the devastation of the attack, the effects of the one bomb that hit Sheffield would be enough to overwhelm all the resources of the UK's National Health Service.

The officials in the basement are as shocked by the events as anyone else. The Chief Executive and the Medical Officer are looking at the radiation map on the wall "Everybody here will be dead already... Around here 50% will still be alive, but they are as good as dead already, they have probably received a lethal dose".

The town hall bunker has a generator and food supplies for 2 weeks, but the blast brought down all four floors of the building, sealing the officials in. Getting lifting equipment to them is difficult. After an attempt is made to mount rescue efforts above, they all die of suffocation.

In the atmosphere, huge clouds of dust block out the sun, and over large parts of the northern hemisphere it starts to get dark and cold. In the center of large land masses like America or Russia the temperature drop may be as much as 25 degrees Celsius. Even in Britain, the temperature could fall to freezing or below for long periods.

[edit] Aftermath (long-term)

On June 5th, 10 days after the attack, Ruth walks devastated streets passing charred bodies and a woman holding a dead baby. At Jimmy's house, she finds Mrs Kemp dead, and takes one of Jimmy's books as a keepsake. The killers of Ruth's parents are arrested and executed by firing squad. Ruth returns home to find that her parents are no longer there. A public information broadcast states that "... All able-bodied citizens, men, women and children should report for reconstruction duties commencing 08:00 tomorrow morning...."

A group of survivors (Jimmy's father amongst them) tries to break into a food storage depot; soldiers defend the depot with tear gas. Detention camps are set up to cope with the growing numbers of looters.

By 4 to 6 weeks after the attack, deaths from fallout are reaching their peak, disposal of bodies is difficult, digging pits by hand is not practical, and fuel is too valuable to be used for cremations. There are now between 10 and 20 million unburied bodies in Britain, which in turn give rise to epidemics such as cholera, dysentery and typhoid.

By now most who can have left cities and towns in search of food. In the grim economics of the aftermath is a harsh reality: a survivor who can work gets more food than one who can't, and the more who die, the more food left for the rest. Along with many others, Ruth is relocated to Buxton, which suffered fewer effects of the attack. Ruth, along with three others, is allocated temporary accommodation in a private home, over the objections of the homeowner, who kicks them out of this accommodation very soon afterwards.

Food is distributed after 4 weeks. The delay is partly organisational and partly deliberate, as there is a desire not to waste food on people who are going to die anyway. Even with supplies rationed to 1,000 calories per day for those who can work (and 500 calories for the rest), stocks do not last long and it is up to the remaining population to harvest what little crops have survived.

Ruth runs into Jimmy's friend Bob, and they band together and find a dead sheep. After some deliberation, they choose to eat it then use its coat to keep warm. Four months after the attack Ruth, alone, gives birth to a surprisingly healthy child and gathers with some survivors around a fire on Christmas Day. Aside from a caption that gives the date, the only thing to suggest it being Christmas is a shot that is a grim parody of a nativity tableaux; the day passes without celebration.

The sky is clearing and sunlight (heavy with ultraviolet radiation) is returning. However, with fuel stocks running low, this could be the last harvest done with tractors and combine harvesters. Lack of fertilizers and the like make the growing of crops very hard.

The first few winters are so harsh that most of the young and old die as their protective layers of flesh are thinner. The pace of the film quickens -- we see Ruth and her young daughter (whose name, Jane, is only revealed in the closing credits) working in the fields.

The population falls to about 5 million (the caption states that "population may fall to mediaeval levels, between 4 and 11 million people") within 8 to 10 years of the attack. The country is returning to population levels and standards of living similar to those of medieval times. A breakdown of language is evident among those born after the attack, making learning difficult.

Ten years after the attack, Ruth is in the final stages of cancer and looks far older than her years; she dies peacefully. By this time, basic electricity is in use again and we see mining and the use of steam engines. Ruth's people have even rigged up a television and VCR, which they use to show their children the few surviving recordings of pre-war programmes. The bitter irony being that the programme being shown is an episode of Words and Pictures, with a story about a family of skeletons. Jane and the other girls in the community are learning how to repair clothes.

Jane becomes pregnant as a result of being raped. As her contractions begin, she stumbles through the devastated landscape until she finds a hostel with electricity. Her baby is assumed disfigured, and possibly stillborn, a result of genetic mutation.

As Jane is about to scream at the sight of her baby, the movie ends. Template:Endspoiler

[edit] Off-topic list moved to independent article

The See Also section of this article was becoming a list of other works only tengentially related to this one. It was moved to List of nuclear holocaust fiction along similar, redundant, frequently overlapping lists from Jericho (TV series) and The Day After. See Talk:List of nuclear holocaust fiction. MrZaius^talk 05:15, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Threadsmoviecover.jpg

Image:Threadsmoviecover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 02:20, 12 February 2008 (UTC)