Talk:Thornlea Secondary School

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Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on August 28, 2007. The result of the discussion was keep.

Good Job "69.196.105.224" with creating this article with so much detail. Are you a current student at the school? I would only say that you seem to have a bias against student council. As a member of thornlea's student council, I will be taking a more indepth look and revising this article in the near future. --Esto 23:46, 31 May 2005 (UTC)


The modifications look good, Esto and others. :) As for any slight that may have been perceived in the original article: no offense was intended. I'm an alumnus of the school (class of '02) and during my time there, I had close friends in TSAP and was quite active in the extracurricular community myself, so I would never have deliberately portrayed any particular group in a negative light, nor would I have any reason to. I've tried to emphasize throughout the article that such statements are common perceptions, i.e. not necessarily based in fact, but certainly prevalent enough among students (both former and current), and of enough significance to Thornlea's identity and image in Thornhill, that they merited inclusion. -- 69.196.105.224

I must admit that this article is quite one-sided and does not reflect the views of most students (past and present) of the school. Yes thornlea does have a laid back type attitude but this allows for great student-teacher interactions. I can consider my stay at Thornlea among the best four years of my life. Not only was I exposed to a great academic life but also to a fun and beneficial social life. Do not give the school a bad reputation based on the fact that you live your lives full of complacency and the need to blame others for your problems.


To the above contributor: Your points are well taken. As mentioned, my intention was never to present the school in a negative light, as I too very much enjoyed the time I spent there. This may be a moot point, however, as the current edition of the article seems to be in good shape. P.S. It would be appreciated if in the future you signed your comments (even just with a nickname of some sort), simply as a courtesy to other users, and to make specific lines of discussion easier to follow. Thanks. -- 69.196.105.224

Contents

[edit] Persistent vandalism

One or more parties seems to be intent on adding livejournal-type content to this entry. Does it need to be temporarily locked? Jasmol 21:44, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Lore

Any opinions on whether the "Lore" section meets Wikipedia standards? I've removed it for now. The various mentions of names and drug busts should probably be sourced if they're to be included.

69.196.105.224: Thanks for helping clear up the Lore section. Jasmol 22:29, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Mike Myers?

The Famous Alumni section claims Mike Myers attended Thornlea. I've been unable to locate this information anywhere else. Is this claim verifiable? Rrburke 19:26, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

I doubt it, since Mike Myers is a born and bread Canadian. (Bjorn Tipling 23:38, 29 April 2006 (UTC))
Thornlea is in Canada. --Rrburke(talk) 18:46, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Some stuff

I'm a current student at Thornlea, and an odd thing turned up a few months ago. Our principal was surfing Wikipedia and actually stumbled across the Thornlea entry and was not pleased. He passed his displeasure on to our Vice Principal in charge of publications, who then brought it to my attention, as I am currently one of the editors of Ka-Boom, the school's newspaper. This VP has asked myself and our current TSAC president to rewrite the entry and, if possible, lock it for only Thornlea students to write in. I don't know if it is possible to lock it like this, and give the password to VPs to use if they wish to change the article.

Otherwise, I and our President don't want to change the article right away. We intend to write our own entry and get it checked by our VPs and Principal, then put it up when it is done. The only reason we've been asked to do this is because of some of the sarcastic and, obviously not intended negative comments. We only wish for the article to become more neutral, a little more modern (as it has been 4 years since this was written, and there have been changes to the school), and a better representation of the school community.

And Mike Myers never went here. - S.F.

It is not possible to lock the article so that it can only be edited by Thornlea students. We have had some problems with this article in the past however so we are more than willing to discuss the current content, particularly as you claim that it is not an accurate representation of the school. If you can email me from a Thornlea email address that is verifiable using the school website (click on the "email this user" link from my user page) we'll discuss this offline. Many thanks. -- Francs2000 12:55, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Suffice it to say, our school doesn't have an e-mail server (what we have left of our Portal is all that survived of a big Virus that hit York Region two years ago). The website we have only offers login to our databases, and that's all. As I cannot verify with a Thornlea address, I will speak to my VP and he will send you an e-mail through his YRDSB (York Region District School Board) Address, and this should hopefully be verifiable enough. Once that is done, I suppose we can discuss this offline, through myself and my Vice Principal. - S.F.

Indeed. -- Francs2000 14:14, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi S.F. I think its only fair to let the Francs know that you are NOT the person to be re-writing this school's entry on Wikipedia. If Francs knew how racially charged and not neutral your school newspaper is, he would not be considering this at all. I find it hard to believe that the principal or the Vice's can stand by decisions made by you to write an entry for such a multi-ethnic school. If you cant rememebr what I am talking about, you published an article slandering Jewish female, or how you allowed them to be refered to as JAPS causing republication and a public appology for the uproar you created. Another instance I can remember is calling Christmas by a different name, offending and devaluing Christian Religion.

I would feel uneasy about YOU of all people writing a racially neutral entry and I think this idea should be scrapped. But feel free to update the current entry any way you like as you're right, it is a little out of date, but dont you dare re-write it. -T.P

First of all, T.P., that article is far behind us. Second, if you've ever read the Gift Day issue, you'll know that it is not a renaming, nor a devaluing of Christmas. It is a seperate holiday, as we have stated in countless issues. It has nothing to do with Christmas, as we even joke that Gift Day is simply a consumer holiday we created to celebrate winter.

Furthermore, I will not be the one writing this article, as decided by our principal recently. Instead, Mr. Selby, and our three VPs will be writing it together. It will then pass through ALL of the Ka-Boom staff for editing, then it will finally pass through TSAC's president for a final readthrough, before it is once again passed by the administration. The last thing we want is for someone to misread anything as slanderous, as the article you speak of was. I still don't feel you have to bring this up again, considering the e-mails were enough back then. We'll let this go to rest, considering it really, really doesn't make a difference, as I, nor anyone from Ka-Boom will be WRITING the new article.

By the way, this was not my idea. Our administration, fulling knowing about the article you speak of, approached ME and the President, NOT Ka-Boom and TSAC. It was for US to write, as representatives of the school community (which, granted, is not necesserily true). That's why the administration is writing it. So don't worry, T.P., the internet is safe from Ka-Boom's fanatical writing style. - S.F.


"So don't worry, T.P., the internet is safe from Ka-Boom's fanatical writing style. - S.F." - FEWF! -T.P

There are many things missing from this page, most notable is dicussion of the drug culture that existed at Thornlea. Thornlea was a drug mecca for the northern Toronto area during the 70's and 80's. It was not uncommon for people from other schools or neighbourhoods to visit Thornlea regularly to aquire drugs such as hashish, marijuana, LSD, and "magic mushrooms". It is shocking to see an article about Thornlea without any mention of drugs, as their use were so central to the cultural and social activities at the school. - M.W

If I recall correctly, one of the teachers mentioned that The Pit was the place to do drugs because it was once out of place.

"New Speakers" We're sorry, but only current Thornlea students should be allowed to edit this page, and then each entry has to go through a Vice Principal and TSAC? That's garbage. What about former students who know firsthand about much of the information presented? How on earth can current students present a complete and intelligent image of the school that's not exclusive to it's current state? The school is more than 30 years old, and I would like to be able to hear from its students past, present, and future. The wondeful thing about Wikipedia is that its articles are organic and can grow and be continuously improved by knowledgable contribution. In the case of Thornlea, there are thousands of students spanning those 30+ years who can make this article ever more complete. Who do you think you are to get your back up and prevent anyone who's not a current student to make additions to this page? It's an arrogant and small-minded stance to take. As a member of the press (you are a writer for Ka-Boom, correct?), you above all should realize that there are always other sides to consider and other stories to tell. Ultimately, this article should strive for an NPOV prespective, something that can only be achieved with multiple (not always unified) voices. There's good and bad about Thornlea, and Wikipedia is going to show it no matter how many self-important students or worried VPs try to whitewash the issues.

Bottom line, the content that's in the article is true. If you feel that it's lacking in positive information, then put it in. Unless it's untrue, nobody's going to argue with it.- M.S and B.K. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 130.63.241.44 (talk • contribs) .

There is no ownership of articles in Wikipedia. Anyone is welcome to contribute to any article as long as the content is neutral and verifiable. OhNoitsJamieTalk 17:43, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unsourced/unverifiable statements, POV

I've removed quite a bit (though not all) of the unsourced/unverifiable content in this article (much of it also probably in violation of the neutral-point-of-view policy. While it may be argued that the content gives the article some "color," it's still inappropriate in that it is not verifiable. And no, I'm not a student, former student, or staff; I'm just trying to consistently apply Wikipedia policies to an article that is frequently in violation of those policies. OhNoitsJamieTalk 21:06, 6 February 2006 (UTC)


I believe you're referring in part to the partial explanation of why Thornlea newspapers tend to fold after a year or so. I was on both Deadline and Volume and can attest what I wrote is indeed fact. I'm curious about what part(s) of my addition you had a problem with- the information itself, or how it was delivered? I belive that the information is relevent. How can I present it so that it won't be considered unsourced/unverifiable/POV? - —Preceding unsigned comment added by Legonovsky (talk • contribs)


The Wikipedia:Verifiability link explains it well. It may be relevant to the school, but I don't think it's relevant to an encylopedia article. Most high school articles just state the facts. Occasionally you'll see statements about demographics, but those can usually be backed up with census data or real estate data. Has a local newspaper written about Thornlea's newspapers? If not, "personal knowledge" is generally not considered to be a reliable source. Though I did edit a lot out, I also left in a quite a bit of content that wasn't very verifiable. I tried to focus on statements that sounded like axe-grinding. I'd apply the same types of editing to an article that made glowing statements about a school if they weren't verifiable. (P.S. Use four tilde's to sign your contributions: 
~~~~
OhNoitsJamieTalk 22:23, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

OhNoitsJamie - according to Wikipedia:Verifiability you should have removed pretty much everything on this page. There are no sources cited, so outside the alledged existence of the school nothing more can really be written. The Wikipedia's Verifiability rule is too restrictive and if it is to be strictly applied most of what I've read on this site is invalid. the school just sucks

[edit] definitely understood

I'm surprised I haven't checked the discussion on this entry in so long (this is S.F. by the way), but I suppose I forgot. And forgetting is exactly what I wanted the administration to do. When I first read this entry back last year, I was surprised how accurate it was (even without the mention of the drug use) and really had minor intention to change it. Granted, some people were adding untrue remarks (which moderators and others have taken off almost immediately as they're added), but in all fact of the matter, it's pretty cool that Thornlea even HAS a Wikipedia entry.

Anyway, as for the editing (that no one from Thornlea will likely ever get around too), it never really was in my power. And true, it shouldn't be up to the administration nor only Thornlea students to decide. Anyone who comes through the school at any time knows what's going on from their perspective, thus completely agreeing with this NPOV thing that y'all are talking about. In summary, I no longer am part of Ka-Boom (as of May, at least), and this will definitely not come up as an issue when we pass the torch next month. I believe it is up to the readers and those who have a good idea of what Thornlea is to decide what will be in the entry and what won't. Technically, this means anyone can make a change, so long as it makes sense.

To tell you the truth, when I realized that it wasn't my job to make the changes, I went straight up to my principal and just said "hey, it's an open-source encyclopedia. You want to make the changes? Do it yourself!" Those were essentially my exact words, give or take a syllable. And none of us seem to see him come on here and make changes. I guess he really didn't care that much in the end.

Signing off, and once again I'm sorry for starting all this kafuffle, -S.F.

[edit] To Be Checked

[edit] Established 1969

Was the School established in 1969? I'm pretty sure that it was 1968 or even 1967. DHR 07:09, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Who appoints appointed TSAC directors?

"TSAC consists of six executive members and three appointed directors as well as three representatives from each grade." DHR 04:44, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Where did the truth go?

Have not looked at this article in quite some time, but what happened? I cant believe how much it has been edited, and watered down, so to speak. The little insights written into this article were honest and accurate, and now all that has been taken out. For example, Thornlea is very much so a stereotypical highschool environment; social groups are greatly segregated with the white popular kids in the purple hallway, the etnics by the café, the Goths in the carpeted hallway and the music junkies by the music room. Although harsh, this is the reality there. Furthermore, drugs are incredibly abundant at Thornlea, the administration is a mess and TIP kids are idiots. Someone must work on this article and write the truth back in. I loved Thornlea because it was real…. This article has become a bunch of edited crap.

As a former Thornlea student (graduated this June), I agree on that. Someone really wanted to cover up the negative side of Thornlea. TIP (Thornlea Intensive Program) absolutely gone unmentioned. It is a program designed to assist potential dropouts staying in school. I believe that they don't want to mention this so that people will not have an impression that we have this program because we got a lot of dropouts.

Criticisms about this school exceeds the overpopulation problem. This was not a problem until they shut down the portables due to a fungus crisis in a Marham high school where they found deadly fungus in a portable classroom. The problem is not the number of classrooms, it is the number of teachers that contribute to this problem. Most of the classes are now have over 30 students. If you walk through the hallway during 3rd or 4th period, you can find that many rooms are empty. Another example will be the newly renovated science classrooms (except one physics classroom and one chemistry). One of the science teacher told me that after the renovations, the # of science classrooms increased but the # of classrooms which are able to conduct chemistry experiments decreased as previously one room now cut into two smaller rooms. In my opinion, the physics room should be the top priority in the renovation. The ventilation of the room is bad because there's only a main door which opens outwards. In the past, teachers put something at the door to keep it ajar to allow some air to come in. That's until the fire marshal says it's a fire hazard and forbid anyone from doing so. Overcrowding shouldn't exist in our school. It's only that staff like to teach at rooms which are close to the department (e.g. math teachers teach in math classrooms and reluctant to teach in science classrooms, english teachers won't teach in geography department classrooms even though geograph classrooms are facing towards the english classrooms on the opposite side of the hallway)

According to the article, it mentions that smokers smoke at the pit and at reservoir (res). During my 4 years in the school, I have never heard of such a term call "the pit". Besides, smokers, including a few teachers and staff smoke at the northern boundary fence. If the staff smoke there, then it establishes an unwritten rule to everyone that you can smoke there without breaking the rules.

In summer, the air-conditioning (AC) was rarely turned on even when the outside temperature reaches 30 degrees Celesius. The reason being for that is because the custodians don't repair the AC prior to summer. When they find out something breaks down, they repair it and by the time they finish repairing, it's almost the last day of school. Why can't they check everything before hand?

Finding Ka-Boom and TSAC to read the edits of the article is pointless, really! None of the students in the school is aware of this problem other than a few that monitors this article. It does not represent the voice of the students. You guys may be granted rights to exclusively edit this page, but this is open source so everyone can write it. Oh yeah, there're so many discontinued clubs where their names appear in agenda. Here're some examples (pardon of me if they still exist) - Astronomy Club - Chinese Student Association - Improv Club (what on earth is this club?)

To Mr Selby if he comes across this comment: This is Canada. Freedom of speech is a right stated in Charcter of Rights and Freedom. You can't stop us from posting criticisms. Here's a short quote for you: (quote from MapleWiki admin) "Did you know you will take roughly 30 seconds to vandalize any page and maybe even 30 minutes for a noobish vandalizer? Well, it takes me a mere 10 seconds to revert all your edits regardless if it's 30 minutes or 10 seconds. Don't waste my time or your time, there's nothing to gain in this." (end quote) We got lots of people to revert all your foolish attempts to edit out the negative comments. We know how to watch page and revert edits in 10s. We could have made it worse and bad-mouth the school by posting in forums where only topic creator and the moderators of the forum can modify the topic.

OhanaUnited 02:44, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Did Gordon Korman go to Thornlea?

I have not found anything regarding Gordon Korman going to Thornlea. His website does not indicate going to school in Ontario. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.108.61.125 (talk • contribs).

Yes, he did for at least two school years, 1977-78 and 1978-79. It's quite possible he was there for the full five years, but these two are the only ones I can recall for sure. But that's WP:OR on my part, and there'd have to be verifiable and citable source offered in order to include it in the article. --Rrburke(talk) 16:05, 30 March 2007 (UTC)