Talk:Thomas Kuzhinapurath

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This article was nominated for deletion on 15 February 2008. The result of the discussion was keep.

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Assessment comments The following comments were left by the assessors: (edit · refresh) This article beautifully describes the life and ministry of Thomas Kuzhinapurath a well known author and priest. It presents the life and works of a Syrian Catholic Priest in the literary context of Kerala. This article can be considered as of mid importance. Simon Cheakkanal (talk) 09:08, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

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Contents 1 References 2 Article for deletion discussion 3 External links 3.1 External Links 4 An Account of Priestly Formation 5 Talented writer 6 Our Former Parish Priest 7 A welknown Writer 8 Daivajanam , My Favorite book 9 Merger_proposal

[edit] References

1.Fr. Thomas Kuzhinapurath has written many articles on socio-cultural issues like juvenile delinquency.

2.And the University of Kerala has selected one his works for the Pre-Degree Syllabus in 1998.

3.It was published by the University of Kerala with the title [[Bhasha Thilakam]].

4.In 1998 the University of Kerala has asked an Essay Question from the work of Fr. Thomas Kuzhinapurath for the annual examination of Predegree.

5.This author has contributed to the personality development and spiritual formation of youth through his writings.

6.The author's books are very popular among the youth especially Christians

7.The author's articles deal with the subjects other than ecclesial issues

8.The articles are read by the wide public including hindu and muslim students of the University of Kerala

9.The books of Fr. Thomas Kuzhinapurath can be found in the libraries of Pontifical Gregorian University Rome [1] and of Pontifical Oriental Institute Rome [2]

10. These works are used for scientific research and popular reading:

See, Kuzhinapurath, Thomas, Daivajanam, ISBN 81-87655-13-5, Carmel Publishing Centre, Trivandrum, India -695 014 [3]

Kuzhinapurath, Thomas, Salvific Law, Elkay Publishers, Coimbatore, India- 641 030

--202.164.133.74 (talk) 07:24, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

--202.164.133.74 (talk) 07:10, 16 February 2008

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Kuzhinapurath (talk • contribs) 12:15, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

[4] [5]—Preceding unsigned comment added by Kuzhinapurath (talk • contribs) [6] literature —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kuzhinapurath (talk • contribs) 12:24, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Article for deletion discussion

Hello there, the place to make these points is via the blue link above, where other editors will discuss whether or not to keep the article. If you have some reliable sources that can demonstrate notability for this person, I will be happy to help add them (and will withdraw the deletion proposal). There is also a likely conflict of interest here; I assume that the editor drafting this article is the subject himself. This is not absolutely forbidden but does make it harder to edit with a strictly neutral point of view. Kim Dent-Brown ^(Talk) 13:08, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] External links

I have removed these links from the article, because none of them lead to any page that has to do with the article's subject. There is no point linking to a search site like www.worldcat.org and then expecting readers to go searching. We need to provide links to pages about the article's subject. If any of these sites has a subpage to do with Fr Thomas then let's cite that by all means.

PS: It would be very good if other editors could respond on this talk page or their own, so that we can actually have a discussion about how to improve these articles. Kim Dent-Brown ^(Talk) 15:48, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] External Links

• search kuzhinapurath
• Fr. Thomas Kuzhinapurath
• Bhasha Thilakam
• The books of Thomas Kuzhinapurath, Library Catlogue
• The books of Thomas Kuzhinapurath, Library Catalogue
• search Daivajanam

[edit] An Account of Priestly Formation

The biography of Fr. Thomas Kuzhinapurath gives a clear account of the priestly fomation and catholic pastoral life in Kerala, India. --omalloor 15:30, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Talented writer

It is very nice to see about Fr. Thomas Kuzhinapurth, who is a good writer and his famous book "Daivajanam".He is a talented writer and whose book was for the pre-degree, for the Kerala University.

[edit] Our Former Parish Priest

It is very interesting to see the web page about Dr. Fr. Thomas Kuzhinapurath. The page was beautifully written. A lot of fond memories flash in to my mind about the time when Fr. Thomas was our parish priest at Karackade. Sunil Kuwait —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.164.135.26 (talk) 15:10, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

A Page which add memories and information to your life. I was thrilled to go through this article. My heartlfelt Congratulation to Fr. Thomas. Jiju Pune —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.225.41.130 (talk) 06:36, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A welknown Writer

When I was doing for Pre-Degree, I studied a lesson written by Fr. Thomas Kuzhinapurath on Juvenile delinquency. It was really worth studying and I have written one essay from this article for the annual examination. It is very nice to see an article about the author. Sarithadinesh (talk) 05:56, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Daivajanam , My Favorite book

I read the book very carefully. i got a good inspiration from the book . I appriciate the author for his excellent lingustic style and the depth of writing. Fr.Reju--Achasu (talk) 06:22, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Merger_proposal

I propose Daivajanam article to merge with Fr. Thomas Kuzhinapurath. I think Daivajanam does not merit an article unto itself and should be merged. Please share your opinion. --Avinesh Jose  T  06:24, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

• Strong Oppose : Keep Biographies and Literary works article seperate. One of the reason is unneccessary cluttering of articles and second being allowing Wikipedia to grow. If not there is no need of seperate arctiles for India and Kerala , a state of India. - Tinucherian (talk) 06:38, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

The literary work (Daivajanam) by Fr. Thomas Kuzhinapurath is weak notable only because of a chapter selected by University of Kerala. It has been already discussed here and the result was (Weak) keep. WP doesn’t need the full details of Daivajanam (please see WP:NOT#GUIDE). There is no unnecessary cluttering in this case as there is not much to write about it and therefore not being allowing Wikipedia to grow. The merge makes more sense in this case. Therefore it is not a big deal if just mention about Daivajanam in Fr. Thomas Kuzhinapurath under a new section ==Published books==.--Avinesh Jose  T  07:11, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

• Weak oppose. I think the author can do such reorganisation of his articles,but the suggestion about creating a section ==Published books== has its reason. Drjmarkov (talk) 10:06, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Please explain the reason why your comment, I didn’t get your point author can do such reorganization. It is a merger proposal. What I suggested was add a section ==Published books==in Fr. Thomas Kuzhinapurath and add Daivajanam details there. Because I think Daivajanam does not merit an article unto itself. --Avinesh Jose  T  10:21, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

I think we should leave users who know that subject better to make their comments, especially the author himself. Drjmarkov (talk) 22:37, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

It is good to retain the article Daivajanam as seperate. It is notable because Daivajanam has beautifully share the thoughts of the western philosophers and thelogians in very simple and beautiful language without losing the depth of thought.(See, the Inroductory Study by Dr. D. Babu Paul IAS, in Daivajanam, pp. xi-xviii) Such a beautiful convergence Indian and Western thoughts is very rare in Malyalam. That is the notability of Daivajanam.Simon Cheakkanal (talk) 12:47, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose Literary works should be kept separate from the biographies of their authors. Dgf32 (talk) 22:29, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

• Comment The article on Daivajanam looks like it needs a good deal of clean up. It may or may not be notable. If you think that Daivajanam may not meet the notability requirements, nominate it for deletion. Thomas Kuzhinapurath has already been nominated for deletion, and the subject was found notable was consensus was to keep the article. Dgf32 (talk) 22:32, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
• Comment I've cleaned up Daivajanam quite a bit, but I'm not sure of its notability. You should nominated it at AfD if you think it doesn't meet the notability criteria. Dgf32 (talk) 22:45, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

It comes under borderline (weak) of notability. Because, a small section of this book has been selected by University of Kerala. It doesn’t win any award, not a subject of multiple, non-trivial published works whose sources are independent of the book itself per WP:NB. It has been already discussed here. In my opinion, it is better to merge it to author that makes more logic until when the book receives any award or further notability. --Avinesh Jose  T  04:48, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

• Strong Oppose Comment Daivajanam is a subject of multiple published works whose sources are independent of the book itself. See the comments below by Achasu and Avinesh Jose on the reviews on Daivajanam published in various journals.

Reviews- Many Reviews on Fr. Thomas Kuzhinapurath's book Daivajanam were published in various journals. A few of them are the following:

1. Dr. Geevaghese Panicker, "Jeevithasparsiyaaya Daivasasthram", Aikyadeepam, July 1998, p.34.

2. M. V. Thomas, "Daivajana Jeevithathinte Vilayiruthal", Deepika Daily, July 26, 1998.

3. Johnson Karoor, "Yesuvilekku Nayikkunna Daivasasthram", Talent, July, 1998, pp. 429-431.

4. Daniel Poovannathil, "Uthamamaya Vayananubhavam", Christava Kahalam, March, 2002, p. 58. Achasu (talk • contribs) 06:03, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Comment based on Deepika book review. I’ve checked the image sent by Simon now. It looks like a two column review of the combined articles of Father Thomas Kuzhinapurath, reviewed by a person M V Thomas published by Deepika newspaper. The column looks like an announcement / review that I don’t know. It says the book ‘god’s people’ has three sections of Jesus Christ’s congregation, Christ-as a human being and social issues etc. According to the reviewer that Father Thomas has done a good job by authoring this book. --Avinesh Jose T 04:53, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Moreover Dr. D. Babu Paul IAS, the former Adl. Chief Secretary of Kerala Government has done deep study on the book (of 10 pages).Simon Cheakkanal (talk) 05:43, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

I've already commented it as Weak notable book & given link to the AfD also. I don’t know why you are copy>paste it yet again. --Avinesh Jose  T  06:02, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

We can merely consider Deepika from the above list which I commented already in the AfD as a book announcement kind news by Deepika (controlled by the Catholic Church of Kerala). The rest all (1, 3 & 4) are self published. That’s why I commented it doesn’t come under WP:NB and therefore should be merged to the author. --Avinesh Jose  T  11:16, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Comment - Fr. Thomas Kuzhinapurath neither owned nor was a member of the editorial board of any of the publications mentioned in the above comment at the time of the publication of the review on Daivajanam in them.Simon Cheakkanal (talk) 11:32, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

• Strong support considering the book is just a collection of his essays. Frankly, I do not see how the article on the book can possibly escape deletion otherwise. We sometimes do keep books in addition to their authors, but only when the book has won a certain amount of independent distinction. Since it contains a number of different essays of his on a variety of subjects, I cannot think it would possibly be independently notable. Use of a book as a textbook even for notability of the author requires several independent universities not associated with the author; use for the book requires being a major textbook in the field. My suggestion, based on rather wide experience here with books and authors, is to be satisfied with the one article. I am somewhat surprised the article on him was kept, and I think it might not be if nominated again. DGG (talk) 19:15, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

The user DGG categorically asserts that his beliefs are always true. For example he said about Fr. Thomas Kuzhinapurath "when he sent a copy of his book to the pope (though he was not able to arrange a personal audience to present it), he got a formal thank you note." But the reality was just the opposite (See, Thomas Kuzhinapurath)Simon Cheakkanal (talk) 03:53, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

If I have a chance, I find the link I relied on again--I think from his blog or the like. I might have misread it, but I do not think so. However, I've made mistakes before. Maybe I am making a mistake now when I predict that if you keep this article separately, it will probably soon be deleted. DGG (talk) 07:46, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

See also admin Richard's comment on Daivajanam in my talk page. --Avinesh Jose  T  07:00, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Merge. Barely notable as it stands. Relata refero (talk) 08:20, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Merge - with the option of later recreation as a separate article if the notability of the subject is established more clearly later. John Carter (talk) 16:35, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Comment Keep Seperate- The books notability can be traced from the following facts:

1. The book has been reviwed in several journals independent of the book(see, the above comments).

2. On the fifth anniversary of the publication of the book a volume of 5 studies on the book were published (See, Daniel Poovannathil, ed. Daivajanapadhanangal, Carmel International Publishing Centre, Trivandrum, 2002)

3. Dr. D. Babu Paul IAS, the former Adl. Chief Secratary of Kerala Government and a wellknown writer (See, List of Malayalam language authors) has done an indepth study ("Upodkhadam") on the book in 10 pages.Achasu (talk) 02:57, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

— Achasu (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.