Talk:This Is Just To Say

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This Is Just To Say is part of WikiProject Poetry, a WikiProject related to Poetry.
Start	This article has been rated as start-Class on the quality scale.
Low	This article has been rated as low-importance on the importance scale.

[edit] An Interpretation

I'm not the smartest man alive, so I don't wish to write this explanation of the poem, but I'd like to throw an idea out there for it's meaning. I think that it's about betrayal and the story of someone taking advantage of a lover or a husband or a wife or a girlfriend, or something of that sort. I have neither the tact, intelligence nor the tact to extrapolate on this idea, so... please use my comments if you find them useful. Get back to me if you would wish to talk with me about your feelings on this poem.

[edit] Copyright Issues

Dear Gwern,

Your copyvio justification for removing the whole text of the poem is unconvincing. In my edit summary I described that the entire text of this SHORT and WELL-KNOWN poem is necessary for fair criticism, comments, and scholarship to be generated (in other words, FAIR USE). Disclosure: I am a licensed attorney fluent in copyright law and I studied English literature in my undergraduate studies (therefore fluent in poetry and fair use - both issues implicated here). I know fully well what fair use does and does not allow.

Your stubborn removal of the piece merely because it is a WHOLE work completely neglects the unique poetic structure of the piece. In other words, it is not possible to give excerpts of this work. This would be akin to making an excerpt of a copyrighted haiku piece, which makes no sense. See Frank A. Pasquale III, Copyright in an Era of Information Overload: The Law and Economics of Information Overload Externalities, 60 VANDERBILT L. REV. at 28 (2006).

Lastly, I have reviewed Wikipedia's fair use policy and have to say that there is NOTHING in the policy prohibiting a user from uploading a copyrighted work in its entirety. For instance, ENTIRE copyrighted photographs may be uploaded to Wikipedia under a fair use rationale. Why? Because you cannot cut half of a photograph to make fair use "portions". Likewise, ENTIRE copyrighted short songs (under 30 seconds - i.e. the length of a full commercial) may be uploaded. Thus, ENTIRE works such as a short poem WHICH MAY ONLY BE UNDERSTOOD AS A UNITED WHOLE are eligible for the fair use exemption both under existing U.S. copyright law and under Wikipedia's fair use policy.

I respectfully ask that you cease and desist your free speech chilling activities and allow the text in.

Regards,

130.192.203.170

I responded on my talk page to your comment. --Gwern (contribs) 05:30 15 May 2007 (GMT)

[edit] Article Expansion

I took the liberty of expanding this article. Please help to continue improving this article by adding relevant content. Notecardforfree (talk) 06:33, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Great work improving the quality of this article! I have a couple comments I wanted to leave here for posterity's sake. First, according to WP:NPS, it is a good decision to leave out the poem's full text. And, as it's copyrighted, even a fair use claim probably wouldn't cover use of the entire poem. Other than that, as the article continues to grow, you'll want to expand the introduction as per WP:LEAD. I'd suggest looking for more sources, perhaps a biography of Williams or a collection of critical essays, that discusses critical response, impact, and analysis of the poem (I might have access to some so I'll do what I can in the next couple weeks). Your current sources aren't the best examples of reliable sources - especially Cliff's Notes. If you want to see one (of a couple) example of a full treatment of a poem on Wikipedia, see what I did at "The Raven". I'm not sure a poem of this length will ever get to featured, but there's no reason we shouldn't try, right? Great job on this, and I hope to see you continue improving poetry-related articles! --Midnightdreary (talk) 14:45, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the helpful and constructive feedback. You are absolutely correct in that the sources used in this article are not of the highest quality, so I'll be making a trip to my local library as soon as I get a chance to do more research. I'll also send of a letter to the estate of WCW to see if they will let us reproduce the entire poem here, as I think it would significantly contribute to the article's quality. Fantastic work on "The Raven," by the way. Cheers, Notecardforfree (talk) 17:44, 16 January 2008 (UTC).